1680 redline - how much?

[Goula1979]

I'm looking at purchasing my first vintage Rolex and am looking for a 1680. I found this one that I believe I can buy for around $13K. It's beautiful, but seems a little overpriced for no box/papers. I'd prefer to stay below $10K. Is this a reasonable budget for a redline 1680 with box and papers or should I up the ante to $13K?

[foodle]

Price depends a lot on condition and whether there is anything special about it (e.g., meters first, boxes and papers, etc.).

$13k sounds high for what you're showing. I'd shoot for more like $10k, but again, there are a lot of variables. Check around the forums and various dealer sites for approximate pricing to match up to the piece you're buying.

[descartes]

The market for Red Subs is strong. The ones I've see for less than $10K are beat to hell and/or have pretty serious dial flaws. Red Subs with papers bring VERY strong money... mid to high teens, in my experience. The one you posted has very nice patina. Good luck!

As an example, from the same seller--

This: http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1970...box-and-papers

Versus this: http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1972...h-mark-iv-dial

[Vincent65]

The pic shows a box?! Anyway, looks like a decent MKIV, but I'd need loads more photos, and better ones. I'd say about $12K for a good one without B&P. Anything from $15K upwards with B&P.
For m-first, tropical etc. you can add thousands.

[Goula1979]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

The pic shows a box?! Anyway, looks like a decent MKIV, but I'd need loads more photos, and better ones. I'd say about $12K for a good one without B&P. Anything from $15K upwards with B&P.
For m-first, tropical etc. you can add thousands.

It does have a box, but I don't believe it's original nor is the seller representing it as original. It's in very good shape and has a great patina. Thanks for the insight.

[Goula1979]

It does have a box with it, but I don't think it's original to the watch nor is the seller representing it as such. It's a beautiful watch. I'm just struggling with the price. Thank you for the insight.

[descartes]

Comments on this example based on the pic:

1. The second had has a different (darker) patina than the other hands or number plots. Something is going on their. Relume? Non-matching replacement?

2. The hands appear to be scratched and/or oxidized.

3. Several of the hash tags which abutt the number plots appear to be broken/shortened where such hash takes meet the case. This is fairly common in the Red Subs (and DRSD's), as chips/breaks occur during service.... but the fewer the better. These should be more closely examined. (See, e.g. the "9" hash mark).

4. Not sure if this is an MKIV (as I don't clearly see tha the "660" has open sixes). What is the case number of this watch? You should be sure the dial "makes sense" for the case number. This is important.

5. Insert is a service insert and pearl does not have matching patina. This is not a huge issue, but does impact value to some degree.

6. The "1" and possibly the "8" number plots appear to have some darker discoloration.

7. Hard to tell about the case from these pics but the 7 o'clock lug looks possibly overpolished. I never expect a 40+ year old watch to be unpolished, but you should make sure that case is still reasonably strong.

Overall, I do like this watch, and it's hard to get perfection in a 40+ year old piece... but these are some things to examine more closely and factor into value.

[Goula1979]

second hand is definitely a different color, but other hands and number plots all match. not sure what the story is on that. other than this the hands are in pretty good shape. I think the hash tags are fine, it's more the picture I took. serial# is 2.9 and 6's are open so I think it's good. She's a beaut, but just fighting the feeling I'm paying too much. It was serviced in 2012 and had some internal parts replaced and a new crystal put on (it's the correct plexi top hat crystal though).

[Mark020]

B+P sub 10k: forget it.

[Robbyvm]

Mark is right but For this MKIV with only the box 13k is overpriced b

[descartes]

Originally Posted by Mark020

B+P sub 10k: forget it.

Out of curiosity, where are you finding nice red subs with box and papers for $10K?

Again, as a point of reference, here's one which was offered by a trusted seller a couple weeks ago for $17K+ and sold within 2 days.

Offered: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=367557

Sold: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=367958

Please explain?

[Mark020]

I don't state they exist. I state they don't exist (sub means below). OP wants B+P for 10k. A 1680 with B+P starts at 13k imho. The 17k one was a very full set and a very nice watch btw.

[foodle]

Originally Posted by descartes

Out of curiosity, where are you finding nice red subs with box and papers for $10K?

Again, as a point of reference, here's one which was offered by a trusted seller a couple weeks ago for $17K+ and sold within 2 days.

Offered: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=367557

Sold: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=367958

Please explain?

He's saying you CAN'T find a red sub with box and paper for $10k.

However OP has stated the one he's looking at does not have box and papers. The box in the pic is not original.

[descartes]

Originally Posted by Mark020

I don't state they exist. I state they don't exist (sub means below). OP wants B+P for 10k. A 1680 with B+P starts at 13k imho. The 17k one was a very full set and a very nice watch btw.

Gotch. Read your post to say "box and papers sub" could be had for 10k so forget this one. I think we're all on the same page. Cheers.

[CrownMe]

Nice to see the market on reds increase. I bought my red a year ago for a bit under 10k. Now its hard to find a all original red under 13k.

10k Red will get you a over polished case and a service insert most times.

[Frogman4me]

In today's market if you want an excellent example MKIV expect to pay around 13k. This is no B/P

[mluther]

you should see the prices over here in Europe. I've just seen a full set red (very full set MKIV) go on the market for 16,500 Euros - that's close to $22K US - agreed a "nuts" price, but no doubt the market is moving..

[RC2]

My dad grabbed one from 1970 for under 10. Great seller and friend guess he is making out well


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[lhanddds]

The market seems to be moving up on everything.

[Robbyvm]

This means i should keep my MKI!

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by Robbyvm

This means i should keep my MKI!

I don't think you could sell that beauty even if you wanted to Stunning Red.

[Goula1979]

On the watch originally shown on this thread I have two questions:
1. What is likelihood of second hand aging differently than hour and minute hands to explain patina difference or is it most likely a substitution?
2. I'm confident the insert isn't original, but it looks like fat font to me. Are my newbie eyes just not trained enough to distinguish yet or is it close to what would have been original?

[Mark020]

1) Definitely replacement
2) To be honest: I don't see it unless I really try hard. Can't be bothered by it as well. In have no idea which MK mine has.

[CrownMe]

^^ I believe that's a service insert.

[mluther]

Originally Posted by Goula1979

On the watch originally shown on this thread I have two questions:
1. What is likelihood of second hand aging differently than hour and minute hands to explain patina difference or is it most likely a substitution?
2. I'm confident the insert isn't original, but it looks like fat font to me. Are my newbie eyes just not trained enough to distinguish yet or is it close to what would have been original?

Useful reference

[acr]

PM sent

[Micha]

this one just sold on ebay for $8600. A steal, or is there something wrong with it? thanks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Role...p2047675.l2557

[descartes]

Well, IMO, for one thing, the dial is damaged. See raised bumps all around the upper half of the dial. This, coupled with the "too-white", non-matching patina of the number plots, suggests that there has been moistue in this watch. Someone may have scraped the plots to eliminate browness from moisute. Also, it appears that something funky is also going on with the back of the watch which is partially too reflective, and partially anti reflective.

[Micha]

Originally Posted by descartes

Well, IMO, for one thing, the dial is damaged. See raised bumps all around the upper half of the dial. This, coupled with the "too-white", non-matching patina of the number plots, suggests that there has been moistue in this watch. Someone may have scraped the plots to eliminate browness from moisute. Also, it appears that something funky is also going on with the back of the watch which is partially too reflective, and partially anti reflective.

the back shows the reflection of a white camera

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by mluther

Useful reference

I'd like to partially hijack this thread, please. Can anyone tell us what year/serial range we can expect to find the various Mk inserts?

Also, is the "thin font" insert a (the?) service insert?


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