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Old 17 September 2019, 10:37 PM   #1
cbalster
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FP Journe comparisons

Hello and thank you in advance. I'm fascinated by FP Journe's movements in 18k gold. My understanding is that each watch is also made from start to finish by a single watchmaker at Journe. I find these two aspects very appealing. What other watchmakers making 500-1000 pieces per year or so can compare?
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Old 17 September 2019, 11:18 PM   #2
kunlun
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There's really nothing like FPJ. They made under 700 watches last year (each year depends, a minute repeater take a lot of watchmaker hours, based on what models are sold, the total changes), yet, they have 12 or so boutiques worldwide and some other points of sale and even some watchmakers in Miami for work in the western hemisphere that doesn't require a trip to Switzerland.

So, there is a combination of an independent (there have always been several investors backing Mr. Journe who are all collectors and give 100% creative control), yet there are boutiques and places one can view, buy, and consult for service, as in a larger brand.

And then there are the watches. The gold movements are incredible. Mr. Journe tells us that he showed his watches to Philippe Dufour himself, who approved of the level of finishing. Not that an FPJ is finished to the same level as a PD, but that Mr.Dufour personally approved the level of an FPJ. If you have read interviews with PD, you know he speaks his mind!
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Old 17 September 2019, 11:31 PM   #3
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I think the Octa UTC might be in my distant future!
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Old 18 September 2019, 12:10 AM   #4
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I recently purchased an F.P. Journe Chronometre Bleu and it’s so good that its like a whole different level of watch. To wind it and to see and feel its build quality is a pleasure. It shouldn’t even be called a watch. It’s a wurtch.
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Old 18 September 2019, 12:39 AM   #5
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I feel like the best comparison to FPJ is Laurent Ferrier (similar ethos of elegant, slim timepieces). LF manufacturers less than half the output of Journe though.

A direct comparison by output would be Moser, which are around 1,250 I believe (although they're stated objective is to increase to 3k).
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Old 18 September 2019, 02:34 AM   #6
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I have a journe.

I had a cb, then I traded for a cs, then traded for my centigraphe. It is by far the nicest watch I have ever owned and I have patek, lange, vc and had breguet as well as others.
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Old 18 September 2019, 06:59 AM   #7
kunlun
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Originally Posted by _speedmaster_ View Post
I feel like the best comparison to FPJ is Laurent Ferrier (similar ethos of elegant, slim timepieces). LF manufacturers less than half the output of Journe though.

A direct comparison by output would be Moser, which are around 1,250 I believe (although they're stated objective is to increase to 3k).
Those are good comparisons. LF is circling the drain a bit, unfortunately. Moser seems to be doing well.

DeBethune is also doing poorly, but started by a watchmaker who is a friend and former colleague of Journe.
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Old 18 September 2019, 07:45 AM   #8
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Those are good comparisons. LF is circling the drain a bit, unfortunately. Moser seems to be doing well.

DeBethune is also doing poorly, but started by a watchmaker who is a friend and former colleague of Journe.
It's unfortunate about DeBethune; hopefully Jacques can help right the ship. They're one of the most innovative companies in watchmaking today, but I think their design language and size is too limiting.

I haven't heard about LF. What's going on there?
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Old 18 September 2019, 08:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by cbalster View Post
Hello and thank you in advance. I'm fascinated by FP Journe's movements in 18k gold. My understanding is that each watch is also made from start to finish by a single watchmaker at Journe. I find these two aspects very appealing. What other watchmakers making 500-1000 pieces per year or so can compare?
Each movement is made from start to finish by a single watchmaker - really?
Made or assembled and finished? Not doubting, just trying to understand.
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Old 18 September 2019, 11:17 AM   #10
kunlun
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It's unfortunate about DeBethune; hopefully Jacques can help right the ship. They're one of the most innovative companies in watchmaking today, but I think their design language and size is too limiting.

I haven't heard about LF. What's going on there?
Hope DeB turns around, such fine watches, semi-unwearable for me, though.

LF just got a new CEO, their third in a few years, not good.
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Old 18 September 2019, 05:40 PM   #11
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Those are good comparisons. LF is circling the drain a bit, unfortunately. Moser seems to be doing well.

DeBethune is also doing poorly, but started by a watchmaker who is a friend and former colleague of Journe.
A steel three hand LF retails for the same price as a platinum CS from Journe and requires an extraordinarily high level of movement finishing appreciation, basically only visible with a loupe. Dial side, Journe, and Moser, for that matter, design elements are quirky and unmistakable, LF, not so much
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Old 18 September 2019, 10:50 PM   #12
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A steel three hand LF retails for the same price as a platinum CS from Journe and requires an extraordinarily high level of movement finishing appreciation, basically only visible with a loupe. Dial side, Journe, and Moser, for that matter, design elements are quirky and unmistakable, LF, not so much
With LF, some movements are sourced from Vaucher (albeit to LF's specs), they got in trouble with some purists for calling this "in-house". Not a big deal to most, just needed to be something clarified. But yes, they are very fine watches for sure.
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Old 19 September 2019, 01:29 PM   #13
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Hope DeB turns around, such fine watches, semi-unwearable for me, though.

LF just got a new CEO, their third in a few years, not good.
That’s quite the TO for a top level executive position. LF might be struggling where a lot of high end artisans and craftsmen struggle. They can design and produce great products but struggle on the business/management side.
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Old 19 September 2019, 02:40 PM   #14
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The questions raised about the organizational vulnerability and economic viability of names like Laurent Ferrier and DeBethune must be a very real concern for all small independents. While François-Paul Journe purportedly has wealthy benefactors to support his endeavors, the main concern with FPJ as a company must certainly be that without François-Paul, who is fully involved with all aspects of his company, is there somebody (like a trusted deputy or family member who shares his vision) who can take the helm if something were to happen to him? It would be monumentally upsetting if FP Journe (the brand) were to meet its demise without him there. Perhaps a larger brand would buy FPJ partially to benefit from his innovative movements? Or are these questions something we’d rather not ponder? Sorry, it just got me thinking...

Last edited by BigAppleBill; 19 September 2019 at 02:42 PM.. Reason: Made one sentence clearer.
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Old 19 September 2019, 05:42 PM   #15
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The questions raised about the organizational vulnerability and economic viability of names like Laurent Ferrier and DeBethune must be a very real concern for all small independents. While François-Paul Journe purportedly has wealthy benefactors to support his endeavors, the main concern with FPJ as a company must certainly be that without François-Paul, who is fully involved with all aspects of his company, is there somebody (like a trusted deputy or family member who shares his vision) who can take the helm if something were to happen to him? It would be monumentally upsetting if FP Journe (the brand) were to meet its demise without him there. Perhaps a larger brand would buy FPJ partially to benefit from his innovative movements? Or are these questions something we’d rather not ponder? Sorry, it just got me thinking...


I believe these concerns are being dealt with by FPJ. An indication of this is Chanel’s purchase of 20% of the company last year. A good move in my opinion that enables sustainability.

Taking output into account, I don’t think there’s another watch company quite like FPJ in terms of quality, wearability, design, price, and the fact that it’s now very much on the radar of the watch community.
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Old 19 September 2019, 09:51 PM   #16
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I believe these concerns are being dealt with by FPJ. An indication of this is Chanel’s purchase of 20% of the company last year. A good move in my opinion that enables sustainability.

Taking output into account, I don’t think there’s another watch company quite like FPJ in terms of quality, wearability, design, price, and the fact that it’s now very much on the radar of the watch community.
In that context, I suppose Chanel’s buy-in does add a degree of stability. And I agree that with regard to quality, wearability and design no other watch comes close to FPJ for the price. In a world of $70K 5711’s it’s astounding to see how relatively inexpensive it is in the secondary market to pick up some incredible examples of FPJ high horology. From a value standpoint there are downright bargains when you consider the relative rarity of these pieces. I’m very much planning to purchase my second FPJ in the not too distant future.
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Old 20 September 2019, 04:19 AM   #17
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It'a important to not that Chanel is privately owned. And the owner? A longtime personal friend of FPJ and collector of their watches.
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Old 20 September 2019, 10:27 AM   #18
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It'a important to not that Chanel is privately owned. And the owner? A longtime personal friend of FPJ and collector of their watches.
Hmmph, poorly proofread, my apologies.
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Old 20 September 2019, 11:36 AM   #19
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FPJ has certainly done a better job than any other independent on the business-end of things. However, the popularity of his company is directly tied to the eccentric man himself. Even with Chanel, you have to wonder if the success of the company will continue once he moves on.
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Old 20 September 2019, 01:58 PM   #20
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FPJ has certainly done a better job than any other independent on the business-end of things. However, the popularity of his company is directly tied to the eccentric man himself. Even with Chanel, you have to wonder if the success of the company will continue once he moves on.
Agreed. It would be near impossible for anyone other than François-Paul to run FPJ the way it needs to be run. The company and its watches directly reflect François-Paul‘s passion, eccentric style and technical achievements. I’m grateful that I live during a window of time that is shared with such a daring inventor. Again, I look forward to acquiring another FPJ in the not too distant future.
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Old 20 September 2019, 07:21 PM   #21
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Urban Jürgensen can definitely compare. Small output, attention to detail, hand finishing, etc.

https://monochrome-watches.com/urban...ands-on-price/

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Old 20 September 2019, 08:14 PM   #22
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FPJ has certainly done a better job than any other independent on the business-end of things. However, the popularity of his company is directly tied to the eccentric man himself. Even with Chanel, you have to wonder if the success of the company will continue once he moves on.
I'm really taken with the LineSport series as a left-field sports watch alternative to the (unobtainable) usual suspects. I'd probably buy one if I knew the company were gonna survive, but those rubber ends look degradable, and I'd hate to find I couldn't replace any piece on a ~$30k watch once they wore out.

Even with Chanel on board, I'm still concerned.
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Old 20 September 2019, 08:42 PM   #23
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It'a important to not that Chanel is privately owned. And the owner? A longtime personal friend of FPJ and collector of their watches.
Does Chanel still have a collaboration with AP?
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:48 PM   #24
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I’ve been looking at an FPJ lately. Want to take a trip to a boutique.
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Old 20 September 2019, 10:49 PM   #25
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FPJ also has their own watchmaking school.

Think about that.
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Old 20 September 2019, 11:05 PM   #26
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There’s a treasure trove of good information about F.P. Journe at thejourneguy.com

Apparently there where two original partners: François-Paul Journe and Gino Cukrowicz. The following is a link to a thorough interview with Gino Cukrowicz that sheds light on the partnership, which soon included a third Geneva-based partner whom I gather is the main financial backer. The interview contains a photo of the three gentlemen partners, but doesn’t mention the third partner’s name.

http://thejourneguy.com/in-conversat...ino-cukrowicz/

The recently announced addition of a fourth partner, the private owners of the Chanel brand, Gerard and Alain Wertheimer, was a strategic move that brought capital infusion and bolstered the future stability and ongoing vision of the FPJ brand. In an interview with the highly esteemed horology enthusiast, Jiaxian Su, of the well-respected website, watchesbysjx.com, François-Paul Journe explains the reasoning behind the partnership:
“In the beginning there were three shareholders, and now there’s a fourth one. It doesn’t change anything about the future of the company. If something happens to me, it protects our children from external predators. So now they’re out; all those big groups like LVMH, Richemont, Kering, Swatch Group – they can’t buy us anymore.”

The entire interview can be found at this link:

https://watchesbysjx.com/2018/11/20

So it appears that the four partners who own F.P. Journe have a shared vision of preserving the long term independence of the brand, which should assuage watch buyers’ concerns about the future viability of the FPJ brand. Long story short: they’re not going anywhere and they’re now stronger than ever. There also appear be to some impending announcements about a new watch model and other innovations coming in the near future.

In a world dominated by corporate watch conglomerates that develop watches designed by committees relying on homogeneous consumer preferences, it’s refreshing that this little, 20-year old watch company is succeeding with artfully quirky designs that continue to push the envelope of horological innovation.

I plan to buy another FPJ model. I just haven’t been able to decide which one of these amazing watches I want next. I’ll continue to contemplate this as I save my $ for the purchase.
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Old 21 September 2019, 01:54 AM   #27
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Good info, Mr. Journe has been thinking well about how to continue his work on his terms long after he is gone.

Of all the independent small companies, the future of FPJ is the most secure.
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Old 22 September 2019, 01:50 PM   #28
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Good info, Mr. Journe has been thinking well about how to continue his work on his terms long after he is gone.

Of all the independent small companies, the future of FPJ is the most secure.
I fully agree.

It is firmly believed that Mr Journe has no desire to "retire", so if his health remains good, we can all hopefully enjoy another 20+ years of new FPJ movements and models, which will give the brand an even stronger foundation.

Letting an independent French brand like Chanel invest in the business was an incredibly wise move and should give all collectors of the brand some comfort that their watches will be serviceable in the future.

Long live FP Journe ;)
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