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Old 26 February 2017, 09:46 AM   #1
Coffes4closers
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Buying first house - calling all real estate gurus!

Good evening everyone,

As the title implies, my wife and I are on the hunt for our first house. Living in the NYC area, prices are simply obscene, and we've agreed to taking on a longer commute to work so that we can get more house for our money, moving a bit further north of the city.

We found a house we absolutely adore. It's 3bd/3bath and simply stunning. We have no children, and no immediate (or long term) plans on having any. The house is immaculate and upgraded in every way possible, with the utmost attention to detail. The house is perfect for us. Here's the downside: the house has been on the market for 7 months, and the asking price is about 150-200K more than houses in the same area that have 4+ bedrooms and 4+ baths, more land, more square footage, and are newer. All of these other houses however, are very cookie-cutter, and the lack of character and style we are looking for.

I realize that a 3br house is NOT going to be too easy to sell in comparison to a 4+, and even more so when the high price point of this house is taken into consideration. My question is, at what point does the quality, craftsmanship, amenities, and beauty of a house overpower it's "stats" and sheer numbers in comparison to the surrounding areas? Am I insane for wanting to pull the trigger on this? Would offering 125k less than the asking price, just to see what happens be an obscene move?

Thank you all for your input! Here's a quick shot of the hulk to make it watch related :)
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:12 AM   #2
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Make an offer. Worst thing they can do is say no.


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Old 26 February 2017, 10:20 AM   #3
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I don't know much about real estate but I've bought two houses, one is now a rental, which basically pays for both. I would rather live in a smaller older house in a better location than a bigger newer house in a location with a longer more inconvenient location. So if the house you like is in a better location it may be worth it. I would also try to find out what type of potential neighbors live in both locations. A vibrant community is worth more than a slightly bigger house. If the cookie cutter neighborhood has one of those neighborhood associations, that could be a good thing or a bad thing.

If you're not having kids in the near future maybe get a nice apartment in Forest Hills or someplace, and rent it when you're ready to have kids. That rent will become a steady income stream.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:26 AM   #4
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Condition can always be altered, so a slight premium is justified(but not 150/200k). At the end of the day numbers don't lie.

It's obviously overpriced and hindered by its bed/bath count and size. If 4 bedroom comparables are 150k -200k less, than not sure if 125k off is enough. Again, condition adds value but not sure enough to fill the gap in this case. 7 months is a long time, very telling.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:59 AM   #5
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When buying, I have one rule of thumb, buy it as if you are going to sell it. Meaning, buy it with the intention to sell, a three bed is a tough sell, and will eliminate a lot of buyers as you are aiming to a specific family. I say, go I low if you really want it, but be prepared that you will have just as hard as time to sell. Buying the cookie cutter ones and putting 200k will make that house look probably just as nice.


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Old 26 February 2017, 11:33 AM   #6
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Hi Coffes4closers
I am not a realtor, but I have bought and sold property.
I could not enslave myself to property or a commute that could affect my and my marriage's quality of life. Life is too short to struggle. Ensure your math for financial health (including funds for potential, unforeseen costs) and saving for your future years is a continuum you both keep up with, no matter what life throws at you.

Dave Ramsey has considerable information and coaching you may find helpful: one of his pointers: have all debts paid first.....
https://www.daveramsey.com/get-started/home-buying

Perhaps not an option here, but could you consider a "tiny home" to enable you to save more money? Then you could always rent it out down the road after you buy when you need, not when you want.

Just lending another point of view.
Blessings, Good Luck
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Old 26 February 2017, 11:47 AM   #7
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7 months is a long time and you would definitely be overpaying if you pay the asking that has sat for this long. I also have met sellers that won't budge on overly overpriced properties. However it does seem counterproductive to live further out in order to pay less and only end up paying more than expected.


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Old 26 February 2017, 11:50 AM   #8
Coffes4closers
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Thank you all for your input!! Excellent advice from each and every one of you. I'm thinking of just putting in a low offer of close to 200k shy of asking. Is a shame the 3br kills the value!
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Old 26 February 2017, 12:07 PM   #9
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Give an offer near the price range of the neighborhood comps
Be willing to go up a bit on your initial offer, when you get the inevitable counteroffer
Take the price savings and reinvest them in the house by adding extra bed/bath when you're ready.

Just some thoughts on a possible plan of action

Good luck!
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Old 26 February 2017, 12:12 PM   #10
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Good choice to go with a lowball offer. As someone mentioned 7 months on the market is a long time Especially if they haven't had any price reductions within those 7 months more than likely means the seller believes the house is priced right for the upgrades they did to the house. If they take your offer, great for you, but more than likely they will not. That is okay since this is an investment and you would rather buy a house that will be easy to sell should you choose. 4 BRs will attract more buyers than a 3BR especially if most of the neighborhood is 4. Also keep in mind that it is always best to buy the cheapest house in the best neighborhood you can afford.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 26 February 2017, 12:53 PM   #11
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Why are you considering buying an overpriced property that you obviously don't need ? We all know the answer, but the question need to be addressed.

Dealing with that issue first is my opinion.

The high end condo/apt market in NYC is in the tank right now, sales are way down and prices are following as well. If it was me I'd be revisiting that market.
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Old 26 February 2017, 02:53 PM   #12
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Real estate appraisal background nowhere near or like NYC.
Sounds similar to my neighborhood.
We have these 1930's and 40's brick bungalows with detached garages that sell for about the same as 1970's and 80's homes that have twice the square footage and land area.
So, yes design can matter quite a bit. Tastes can change however, so the home values may not appreciate at the same rate.
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Old 26 February 2017, 04:00 PM   #13
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Maybe reach out to Mitch and Murray...I heard they're good at closing a deal like this.

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Old 26 February 2017, 09:00 PM   #14
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No specific advice on this house.

My advice: figure out what you can afford codmfortably.

Then spend 20% less than that.

First comdo I bought the bank got me preapproved for 300k. I told my real estate agent to show me nothing over 200k. It was still a nice place. It was just small and I needed to upgrade things over the decade I lived there.

But it set me up living comfortably for the rest of my life.

Even my home now. The math worked out so that I could spend X. I only spent Y. This has made my life much more pleasant in very many ways.
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Old 26 February 2017, 09:35 PM   #15
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Some great advice. Also, remember that you can probably add a bedroom and bathroom if you need to down the line as long as you buy at the right price.
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Old 26 February 2017, 09:40 PM   #16
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150/200 is a huge budget to upgrade and install amenities... I'd rather the extra BR and bigger yard and then upgrade to my taste. You get what you want, you get control, and you have something easier to sell down the line.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:25 PM   #17
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only danger of lowballing is that the owner won't take you seriously.

you can hope that because its been on the market unsold for so long that others have lowballed first and he might take your lowball offer with more consideration.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdog View Post
No specific advice on this house.

My advice: figure out what you can afford codmfortably.

Then spend 20% less than that.

First comdo I bought the bank got me preapproved for 300k. I told my real estate agent to show me nothing over 200k. It was still a nice place. It was just small and I needed to upgrade things over the decade I lived there.

But it set me up living comfortably for the rest of my life.

Even my home now. The math worked out so that I could spend X. I only spent Y. This has made my life much more pleasant in very many ways.
This is exactly what I did. Only considered houses that I could afford a 15-yr mortgage on vs. a bigger/better house that would require a 30-yr mortgage. Have done that with two houses now and has me in a much greater financial position than if I had opted for the opposite.

I would also advise that a longer commute can end up being the worst decision you could make. Be careful about that.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:46 PM   #19
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7 months on the market with home inventory being low tells you it's overpriced. What are the comps selling for per square foot? Use that to come up with an offer imo.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:51 PM   #20
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This is exactly what I did. Only considered houses that I could afford a 15-yr mortgage on vs. a bigger/better house that would require a 30-yr mortgage. Have done that with two houses now and has me in a much greater financial position than if I had opted for the opposite.

I would also advise that a longer commute can end up being the worst decision you could make. Be careful about that.
I seriously credit this as the best move I ever made.

The first place the real estate agent showed me was 220k. I said, "please take my request seriously. Don't show me anything over 200". His reply, "you can negotiate this lower". I responded that I wanted to start under 2, and then negotiate.

Also like you, I wanted convenience as well. My commute was minimal at best.

On my current home, we got super lucky. The guy before me upgraded it in nearly every possible way. Yet, it's still just a modest townhouse. So while he sold at the high end of what he could get for this type of house, I got tens of thousands worth of upgrades for free.

My wife and I were the first ones to see it, as it came to market. I made an offer within the hour. This was after months of looking at other places.

This was one of those times where my spontaneous nature worked in my favor. We got super lucky. And as per zillow the value has increased near to 10%.

OP, take your time. Find the right place. This decision could essentially effect how you live the rest of your life.
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Old 26 February 2017, 10:59 PM   #21
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There's a reason it's been on the market for that time and hasn't sold.

Buy it right and it will sell quickly. Buy it high and you'll be hurting when it's sell time.

Why don't you just go for a 4 bedroom - turn one into and office, another as a gym and have one for guests.

I have a house that's an anomaly for the area and it's hard to sell. Unless you're going to remain there for a while, the trend is your friend.

Also, the worst they can say is NO or not even respond. But it's a starting point.
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Old 26 February 2017, 11:01 PM   #22
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7 months on the market with home inventory being low tells you it's overpriced. What are the comps selling for per square foot? Use that to come up with an offer imo.
I agree

The seller must not be too motivated to sell if it's been listed for this long.
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Old 26 February 2017, 11:02 PM   #23
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We are currently in the end process of buying a house in CT due to a job change from MD so I know what your going thru. Has your realtor done all the due diligence on the home? There has to be a logical reason for the extremely high price if it's smaller than others even if it has upgrades. We just put an offer in on a house and the realtor pulled comps as well as details of when the house last sold, past listing prices, etc....all part of the reason the house might be overpriced. They might have paid more than they can sell for now which is the case on the house we are trying to buy. Pulling old MLS listings if available might also give you an indication of how much work the current owners did on the house. (We saw pics from the 2010 MLS listing) I've also found that some realtors are historically known for overpricing listings either because they accept what a seller would like to get just for the sake of getting the listing or because they have no clue about the market conditions.

IMHO low balling an offer can offend the seller but might be the way to go for you. Has your realtor had a conversation with the listing agent on what they believe justifies the price even though it's a smaller less marketable house than the market?
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Old 26 February 2017, 11:07 PM   #24
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I would not pay the extra money for a house in a neighborhood that could not support the price. It is smaller than others and has sat on the market for 7 months. Without knowing more about your likes and wants it is somewhat more difficult. Three things for me are important, location, location and location. Old real estate saying but in my experience it is true. With no plans for kids and no stated need for a yard or land, why not look in a neighborhood with the activities you and the wife enjoy. A small commute to work and safety are also priorities. A friend of mine drove one hour each way to work, we discussed it and he never figured the hours or costs in the trip. We work 240 days a year, he spent 480 hours driving. Fuel costs, vehicle costs, time away from family. He had a nice house but not so much to justify the trip for me. Stay in the city, what is the point of being in New York and working there if you have to live away. Just my thoughts.
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Old 26 February 2017, 11:58 PM   #25
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Good evening everyone,

As the title implies, my wife and I are on the hunt for our first house. Living in the NYC area, prices are simply obscene, and we've agreed to taking on a longer commute to work so that we can get more house for our money, moving a bit further north of the city.

We found a house we absolutely adore. It's 3bd/3bath and simply stunning. We have no children, and no immediate (or long term) plans on having any. The house is immaculate and upgraded in every way possible, with the utmost attention to detail. The house is perfect for us. Here's the downside: the house has been on the market for 7 months, and the asking price is about 150-200K more than houses in the same area that have 4+ bedrooms and 4+ baths, more land, more square footage, and are newer. All of these other houses however, are very cookie-cutter, and the lack of character and style we are looking for.

I realize that a 3br house is NOT going to be too easy to sell in comparison to a 4+, and even more so when the high price point of this house is taken into consideration. My question is, at what point does the quality, craftsmanship, amenities, and beauty of a house overpower it's "stats" and sheer numbers in comparison to the surrounding areas? Am I insane for wanting to pull the trigger on this? Would offering 125k less than the asking price, just to see what happens be an obscene move?

Thank you all for your input! Here's a quick shot of the hulk to make it watch related :)
PM me the address and I can help you. Otherwise I can't give you accurate advice.
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Old 27 February 2017, 02:44 AM   #26
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If it doesn't appraise you'll be wasting you time as I assume like most people you'll need financing
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Old 27 February 2017, 03:25 AM   #27
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I think that you are falling in love with the new aesthetics - exactly what the flipper of this house is hoping for.

Why not get one of those larger, more property, newer homes in a good neighborhood and spend a bit of what you saved on up-grading it with those amenities you want.

It is seldom good to have the highest priced, smallest, house in the area.

Of course, you can make any offer you want, and there is some value in having a house that you like.
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Old 27 February 2017, 11:06 AM   #28
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7 months is a long time for a house to sit. We are not talking about an 8 figure house here.

I think you 'fell in love' with this house. What it is worth is what someone is willing to pay for. Just be aware you will probably have issues selling it in the future without taking a bit of a loss, or with minimal gain.

I would look elsewhere and do your own renovations to truly make it your own.
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Old 27 February 2017, 11:14 AM   #29
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If it doesn't appraise you'll be wasting you time as I assume like most people you'll need financing
Not that big of a deal, just put more money down
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Old 27 February 2017, 01:02 PM   #30
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Several things to be aware of here and more than can really be covered in a posting like this. We are human and most buy with emotion then convince themselves with logic why is makes sense. Be careful ! So many more things to be aware of than just the price. Hopefully you have a VERY VERY experienced high volume professional working on your behalf. Good Luck !
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