Article questioning Patek's reputation

[josephvman]

I've haven't had the pleasure of sending off my only Patek, a lowly Aquanaut, for service yet, but there is no reason any modern watch should take many months for basic required maintenance. Any manufacturer who thinks this is acceptable just doesn't have much regard for those who've bought their product. If the Pilot watch didn't have PP on the dial would anyone here really find it very interesting from a styling perspective?

[codecow]

I'm never going to talk bad about Patek. I'm ready for my pilot!

[incontrol]

I have fallen head over heels for my Patek watches. I have 5 and have had no issues to date. Every company has issues. I am also waiting for a 5522 and hope I get one.


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[Hamish]

I own many brands
For me Patek is king
I think Thierry is doing a good job
Lots of innovation, new products and I think that he has released some very good grand complications.
Patek like many brands is aspirational and I don't think that this will change.
In terms of business if you compare Patek to Richemont etc I think you will find that they are doing just fine.

[Hamish]

PS I own quite a few Patek's and I have never had an issue

[RussW]

When you're top of the pile you're always going to attract some criticism. I'm very happy with Patek's direction, and if they hadn't moved with the times I wouldn't be a Patek customer.

There are a lot of really great brands out there, so if Patek isn't for you, you are spoilt for choice.

[Borsika]

I had an issue with a 5960/1A. Crown got stuck and was not possible to wind manually. It was under warranty. I left it with local AD and it came back in 2.5 months (Europe). I think it is fair, cant complain.

[1William]

I read the article and agree with several points. I have never owned a PP but have admired the brand from afar. I have never owned a VC or other high end watch as much for what I am, but the issues that are around with ownership of such fine watches. I refuse to get into line for a watch that is as uninspired as the new Pilot or the 5711. I would never pay a premium for these items and I hate limited production runs. I learned a lesson from my Range Rover ownership experience a few years ago. I had always admired the brand. Loved the styling and capabilities of the vehicle. I did my research and everything told me to stay away but I bought it anyway. Everything I had read in the reviews was true. Issues with service on a 100K vehicle that was under warranty. Limited dealer network and part supply. In the end I refused to have so much tied up in an item that I had these issues with. To me, PP is the same story and I don't need to think that I am the exception to QC and service issues. I will continue to admire PP from afar and see another generation run the company and reputation into the ground. I know this is strong but we will see. I think the world has changed and there is only so much fans will tolerate.

[Exploradori]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I think Patek took a wrong turn when Thierry took the reins, and the glory days seem more distant with each new release.



My opinion, of course, others probably will disagree.

I completely agree. Patek is definitely not what it was before. Looking at design, QC, service time, and the nefarious money-grab they want to pull with their pricing, I have decided my next watch from the holy trinity will be an AP or VC.

The Thierry era is not great. I was even underwhelmed with this interview to Patek's creative director (Thierry's wife):

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sa...ctor-interview

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by 1William

I read the article and agree with several points. I have never owned a PP but have admired the brand from afar. I have never owned a VC or other high end watch as much for what I am, but the issues that are around with ownership of such fine watches. I refuse to get into line for a watch that is as uninspired as the new Pilot or the 5711. I would never pay a premium for these items and I hate limited production runs. I learned a lesson from my Range Rover ownership experience a few years ago. I had always admired the brand. Loved the styling and capabilities of the vehicle. I did my research and everything told me to stay away but I bought it anyway. Everything I had read in the reviews was true. Issues with service on a 100K vehicle that was under warranty. Limited dealer network and part supply. In the end I refused to have so much tied up in an item that I had these issues with. To me, PP is the same story and I don't need to think that I am the exception to QC and service issues. I will continue to admire PP from afar and see another generation run the company and reputation into the ground. I know this is strong but we will see. I think the world has changed and there is only so much fans will tolerate.

You are correct in one aspect, it is a strong view to have with no personal brand experience.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Exploradori

The Thierry era is not great. I was even underwhelmed with this interview to Patek's creative director (Thierry's wife):

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sa...ctor-interview

Underwhelmed is putting it mildly – the woman doesn’t know the difference between a rose, and a sunflower, a daisy, and whatever that is supposed to be (at 1 o’clock).
She was quick to point out how she transitioned from the commerce side to the creative side…she said, “I do”, and he said, “you’ll do”.

[Murcielagoboy2]

There's so much I could write here and so much I already have.

- PP are still great. But NOT in comparison to themselves some years ago.

- TS has over produced enormously since he took over and that has hurt every part of the ownership experience; residuals, quality, exclusivity, after sales service, more grey imports/channels.

- IMO he's fundamentally NOT cared about his collectors and many are walking away. That's self-evident ; Residuals on 90% of models are dreadful in comparison to previous years. Can you imagine the 5970 sitting with dealers for months at a discount to list but it's true for their 5270 today.

- The ONLY good thing he's done is limit Nautilus production otherwise that would rapidly go the way of the AP ROO and PP would become a one-product company and it's already the only product PP is currently known for.

- 42mm sizes are great - people are getting bigger. But is the new large sizing down to this or the fad for bling? Would love to see how many people who want a larger size choose rose or yellow gold for their PP's, HA - bet you there's a high correlation. And bling is the antithesis of PP's values. Their anniversary Nautilus chrono was IMO an oversized abomination - and they've ruined the 5170p with diamonds. In these "Instabling" times, it's not surprise that the most overtly-flash Patek - the Nautilus - is in insatiable demand.

- They're recycling the same movements in ever bigger cases causing strange congested dials - anyone seen the MR which is a replacement to the 5074? It looks like a FAKE PP. And this is happening across the board from the Calatrava to the GC's.

I could go on and on and on.
TS needs to cut production, make people wait and get his house in order.
OR NOT,
Just continue to cut corners and make money (for a while... until his brand Equity is wiped out).

[christianj]

Originally Posted by josephvman

I've haven't had the pleasure of sending off my only Patek, a lowly Aquanaut, for service yet, but there is no reason any modern watch should take many months for basic required maintenance. Any manufacturer who thinks this is acceptable just doesn't have much regard for those who've bought their product.

+1! I own a 5167 and a 5711 and luckily there has not been a need for a service on either watch but just reading about the nightmare wait times has me dreading the day they do need to go in.

As a side note, I think it is funny that in my experience I have hands down the best Customer Service in years of owning different watches from a company that tend to get bashed non-stop of TRF....Hublot! Not only did I get an extended warranty on my watch because their CEO was offering them to owners on another watch forum but when I needed a service it was done quickly, correct and with hands down the best communication I have ever had with a company. (other than Nespresso which is another story) Say what you will about Hublot but they engage with their customers and will make sure you are a satisfied customer.

[conkers]

Interesting contrast in views. They do some things very well and other things less well. In fact much like any other company on the planet! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches. Some of their watches are wonderful some less so.

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by conkers

! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches.

Why?

Conkers, can you elaborate on this please.

[KarlS]

I have hope for this thread.... I think the last one was over 10 pages long of the same old rehash!!!! I think we may exceed the 10 pages. As for choice PP deliberately ensure a wide range of models (over 200) so that someone could find something they would like in their collection. So yes some models you will like and some you won't. I don't like the 5960A but others will....so what?! I don't think they should do Quartz but they churn 10 000 out a year to cater to those who would like a PP, are not fussed about mechanical movements and prefer that entry point! The other choice is to buy Panerei which to me is the same watch repeated over and over with a different dial!!! As for direction, my comments are known. If PP wasn't going this routeI wouldn't be an owner. I don't want a watch that looks like what my grandfather wore!!! Watches aren't intended to be investments so never sure why we think a new watch shouldn't depreciate like a new car driving off the forecourt!! In fact I pretty much made money on my PP's but lost on VC, Rolex and UN...of course it's a commercial business and they aren't in this for charity. Movement sizes....heard this so often....remind me of the case / movement proportions of the iconic 5070 or better still the ROO Diver....anyway there is no right or wrong answer to this and if this loses its legs we can start "are there any other brands superior to PP thread" sigh

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by conkers

Interesting contrast in views. They do some things very well and other things less well. In fact much like any other company on the planet! I personally don't covet them any more but that is nothing to do with the watches. Some of their watches are wonderful some less so.

You still need a 5270 no chin blue ....

[dmacintyre]

Having attended the superb NY Exhibition I have to say I feel PP's best days are currently behind it.

Creatively, from an aesthetic perspective, there were countless historic watches which very much appealed to me. In the current / recent collection very little. The modern special exhibition pieces were nice but largely superficially decorative and not horologically interesting to me. It feels like they don't really know what direction they are headed and many recent creations show a lack of good taste - the antithesis of what PP historically stood for. The 5522 could have been a beautiful watch but simply making it larger doesn't automatically make it contemporary or desirable and their somewhat cynical demand creation by throttling supply of that and their other stainless pieces is off putting.

I came close to a Nautilus or Aquanaut last year but the example I saw straight out of the box had a sticky date and I didn't fancy waiting months to get my brand new watch repaired. I had several questions for PP customer service and am still waiting on a response over a year later.

I really want to like the current PP but between the uninspiring design, poor after sales service and occasional questionable quality issues I'm struggling to give them my money. When you charge top dollar you have to back it up. I also feel the owners have an attitude problem (PP staff at the Exhibition were conversely excellent). Maybe the NY Exhibition is an attempt to reverse opinions such as mine. Maybe it was a necessary marketing exercise.

I still love the brand but more for what it was than what it is. I think PP just needs a metaphorical rocket up their arse in several departments and they will be back on top. Problem is it has to come from the very people who are probably responsible for the stagnation.

[texex91]

I have nothing against PP. Owned several, and I think their watches are fine, the brand is well known and I've never had a service issue with them (but then again I did not own them long enough).

My challenge with PP is they are not innovative. Most of their watches IMHO do look like my grandfathers (I know gasp, but it's true). I think it's the nature of round dress watches. Are there plenty of other PP's that don't--you bet. 5524, 5905 (because bigger), Nauts (but I don't consider those true sports watches anyways) and a few others. The rest really are just rehashing of similar looking watches and materials.

NOW, is that a bad thing. Obviously not for many PP loyalists who prefer dress(ier) watches.

Patek just like any brand has pros and cons. If I loved dress watches, I'd be all over Patek (and ALS). Will that keep me from buying another Patek--heck no. I'd buy another in heartbeat if it sang to me (5522 cough and blue Aqua, even though already losing interest in it).

Some here say, those that have never owned a PP have no room to talk. While I have, I actually think it's extremely important to hear feedback from those wanting to buy into the Patek brand, but will not for whatever reason. How will the company get better if they don't know why people are not entering the brand?

Anyways, I believe PP is just fine, but what do I know.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by Hamish

I own many brands
For me Patek is king
I think Thierry is doing a good job
Lots of innovation, new products and I think that he has released some very good grand complications.
Patek like many brands is aspirational and I don't think that this will change.
In terms of business if you compare Patek to Richemont etc I think you will find that they are doing just fine.

Good point about Richemont. I like that Patek is not considering going the boutique route and that they value their relationship with their ADs.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I have hope for this thread....

I feel strongly that the quality of their brown shipping boxes has significantly deteriorated.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I feel strongly that the quality of their brown shipping boxes has significantly deteriorated.

and thus cancelled it....however don't panic I see on a true WIS / Purist forum the big concern has moved onto the brown cardboard outer box that protects the mohagony box may be on the chopping box as well!!!! I shudder where they will cut corners next!!!

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by KarlS

… we can start "are there any other brands superior to PP thread"

You should know by now, Karl, the sequel is never as good as the original.

[ap1]

If they cut the oversized microfiber I'm out

[conkers]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

Why?

Conkers, can you elaborate on this please.

No need to rake over old coals. My view of what looking after customers means is just different to theirs so I voted with my feet.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

You should know by now, Karl, the sequel is never as good as the original.

Sadly you are correct but we can try......do you know that Dufour wears a Datograph....proof that Lange is better than PP?

[PJ S]

^
Wow! Does he? I didn’t know that! Conclusive proof indeed.
Did you know that Chopard polish their bevels (or was it balls?) better?

[Tony64]

I hear Rolex is made by hand and each one takes a year to complete.

[Socal to az]

Monks in the alps polish every single AP by rubbing watches against the balls of a yak. Its true. I read that on the internet!

[Exploradori]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Sadly you are correct but we can try......do you know that Dufour wears a Datograph....proof that Lange is better than PP?

And do you know that Roger Smith wears an Exp I 214270 Mk1 ?