‘Box and papers’

[icnbne]

Hey all, im finally looking to purchase another rolex, but the seller has indicated box and papers, but that doesn’t include outer box, original reciept or manuals service or otherwise

Just includes the warranty card and the green box- does this constitute box and papers? And would these omissions bother you?

Looking at a sea dweller 4k ceramic

[LooseCann0n]

That’s the minimum you’d need...
The other items (even the box) are not specific to the watch and readily obtained elsewhere if you need/want.

Good choice on the SD4K. Mine says hello.

[Seibei]

No, it is not a full set. The omissions would bother me a lot if I was going to sell the watch. If I was just going to wear the watch I would not care, but I would of course expect a significant discount.

[Andad]

Yes the box and papers (or card) is the minimum I would expect.

[icnbne]

Cheers guys, just got clarification and more photos from the seller, all papers booklets and tags :)

Seadweller here i come

[Batmannr1]

A full set for modern Rolex is the watch with all bracelet links, green box, outer box, sleeve, green or red tag (before july 2015), price tag, bezel proctector for most SS sportmodels, warranty card, manual and guarantee booklets in green holder. The coffin is not part of the full set, because ADs should not pass these on to the buyer.

Except for the warranty card, watch and price tag, which have the serial #, all other items are generic and can be sought after on watch fairs, internet, etc.

[toxicavenger]

https://www.rolexforums.com/search.p...rchid=22774949

[ppalasthira]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Yes the box and papers (or card) is the minimum I would expect.

Me too.


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[returntorolex]

I think I would be more concerned about confirming authenticity of the actual watch. How are you doing this?

[bonsai-man]

Someone needs to paste Padi’s stock answer, see “the value of papers” thread.

[BisonHead]

All depends on what you want as an individual, very emotive subject.

[returntorolex]

Probably worth a few hundred less with the missing items.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Batmannr1

A full set for modern Rolex is the watch with all bracelet links, green box, outer box, sleeve, green or red tag (before july 2015), price tag, bezel proctector for most SS sportmodels, warranty card, manual and guarantee booklets in green holder. The coffin is not part of the full set, because ADs should not pass these on to the buyer.

Except for the warranty card, watch and price tag, which have the serial #, all other items are generic and can be sought after on watch fairs, internet, etc.

As has been stated many times the green serial hang tag/price tag is not part of a complete set. Many AD's will not give them out (see Switzerland and KSA), or did not give them out in the recent past. They oftentimes do, but traditionally these are very often out of scope.

Watches older than ten years frequently do not have their green serial tags. That seems to be when everyone decided they wanted the dust that came in the original box from Switzerland and these tags that nobody ever thought about before were all of the sudden important.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Swaye

As has been stated many times the green serial hang tag/price tag is not part of a complete set. Many AD's will not give them out (see Switzerland and KSA), or did not give them out in the recent past. They oftentimes do, but traditionally these are very often out of scope.

Watches older than ten years frequently do not have their green serial tags. That seems to be when everyone decided they wanted the dust that came in the original box from Switzerland and these tags that nobody ever thought about before were all of the sudden important.

Oh no, looks like someone is missing the hang tags

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Yes the box and papers (or card) is the minimum I would expect.

The words of the wise.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

Oh no, looks like someone is missing the hang tags

Haha. I am missing one hang tag. To my Hulk. Which was purchased on business in Switzerland. They did not give them out. Period. Policy. Many others have had the same experience. Many folks in Japan had the same experience. KSA is the same as of now. So yeah, kind of hard to say that tag makes a complete set when it is well known that policies vary and not all ADs give them out. And 10-20 years ago nobody cared or wanted them and ADs often just kept them and threw them away. Multiple ADs have told me this so I tend to believe it.

For ages box and papers was all anyone cared about. My 2 coppers.

[nikesupremedunk]

Originally Posted by Swaye

Haha. I am missing one hang tag. To my Hulk. Which was purchased on business in Switzerland. They did not give them out. Period. Policy. Many others have had the same experience. Many folks in Japan had the same experience. KSA is the same as of now. So yeah, kind of hard to say that tag makes a complete set when it is well known that policies vary and not all ADs give them out. And 10-20 years ago nobody cared or wanted them and ADs often just kept them and threw them away. Multiple ADs have told me this so I tend to believe it.

For ages box and papers was all anyone cared about. My 2 coppers.

I guess it depends who you ask. I wouldn’t turn down a watch if the AD wouldn’t give me the white serial tag but if I did buy it second hand I would want everything including both tags.

If there were 2 exact same watches for sale for the same price and one had both tags but one didn’t..which would you take?

[Dennisoul]

Box = the original box
Papers = warranty card, or in older models the original paper guarantee.

Full set = the above + all the other stuff eg. tags + booklets

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Swaye

Haha. I am missing one hang tag. To my Hulk. Which was purchased on business in Switzerland. They did not give them out. Period. Policy. Many others have had the same experience. Many folks in Japan had the same experience. KSA is the same as of now. So yeah, kind of hard to say that tag makes a complete set when it is well known that policies vary and not all ADs give them out. And 10-20 years ago nobody cared or wanted them and ADs often just kept them and threw them away. Multiple ADs have told me this so I tend to believe it.

For ages box and papers was all anyone cared about. My 2 coppers.

Not everyone the actual watch is the most important far more important than the much easier to fake so called papers and boxes.To me with any modern days Rolex if the warranty has expired in the real world its just a bit of paper or outdated warranty.But thanks to the internet many think these packaging items are the greatest thing since sliced bread.And today the various sellers have homed on to this paper box thing, and charge more as today many will pay.Well here is one that will not pay extra for a very poor quality box in the watch world,and in most cases a outdated warranty.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by padi56

Not everyone the actual watch is the most important far more important than the much easier to fake so called papers and boxes.To me with any modern days Rolex if the warranty has expired in the real world its just a bit of paper or outdated warranty.But thanks to the internet many think these packaging items are the greatest thing since sliced bread.And today the various sellers have homed on to this paper box thing, and charge more as today many will pay.Well here is one that will not pay extra for a very poor quality box in the watch world,and in most cases a outdated warranty.

Oh no, looks like someone in missing the original papers.

[fsprow]

All I am interested in is the warranty card and to ensure it has been properly scanned by the A.D. who originally sold the watch.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by nikesupremedunk

I guess it depends who you ask. I wouldn’t turn down a watch if the AD wouldn’t give me the white serial tag but if I did buy it second hand I would want everything including both tags.

If there were 2 exact same watches for sale for the same price and one had both tags but one didn’t..which would you take?

Don't misunderstand me. I see why people are willing to pay more for bits and pieces. That is not my argument. My argument is it is not technically correct to call serial tags part of a complete set when it is a known fact that not all AD's and all markets in the Rolex world will provide them.

Now, if I am looking at a Flat 4 Kermit, or a Zenith Daytona then yes, I would pay a small premium if the serial tag was included (small premium because to me it doesn't matter much - the warranty card/papers IS the important thing here), or if the anchor was there with the Sub, but I would't not buy a watch because a small price tag wasn't there, especially when many 20 year old watches do not have them because they were not given out all the time.

This is an argument based on being precise to me. Complete set to me means what every Rolex AD in the world is required to provide. Since many AD's WILL NOT provide a serial tag, that kind of invalidates "complete set."

You, or someone, mentioned "bezel protectors" as being part of a complete set. First heard for me? Is this now a required element of purchasing a Rolex? Not trying to bust anyones junk here, I just think this is taking all of this a bit far to "require" tags that are explicitly NOT given out at times, and bezel protectors that nobody ever kept until several years ago. Heh. And for the record I only have about 4 bezel protectors on my 10 watches. If they were in the box when I got home they stayed there. If not, whatever. Guess my collection is screwed now.

Again, I do agree if you are looking for a rare reference, and all the little bits and pieces are there, that can and will fetch a premium. I understand that. Whatever someone wants to spend their money on is fine by me.

Related but side note, it is quite time consuming just trying to decipher manuals and box configurations because ADs once upon a time had multiple different versions of boxes and manuals sitting in the back and would just chunk whatever in with the watch. So even boxes and manuals are more "period correct" than guaranteed original. MANY of the watches you see at very respected dealers are sold as original box and most certainly are not. They are a period set assembled in the back room. Now, this is probably not true on stuff from the last couple of years, but go back 10 years even and it is very likely a watch being purchased in it's original box was not the box that watch went home in. So much for original. And a personal story from me on this. When I bought that Hulk and could not get the serial tag due to policy, they for some reason put two Sub owners manuals in the box - an older version and the newer one. So I have two now. One correct. One incorrect. Or are they both correct because that is what they stuffed in there?

Good stuff. I could have shortened all of this and just said "for the most part I agree with Padi." And to each their own.

[bonsai-man]

Agree with this

[Seibei]

A complete set is a complete set. The fact that some ADs do not provide a complete set does not mean that what these ADs provide is a complete set. It is either a complete set or it is not a complete set.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Seibei

A complete set is a complete set. The fact that some ADs do not provide a complete set does not mean that what these ADs provide is a complete set. It is either a complete set or it is not a complete set.

I agree, I turned down a white steel Daytona LN and an LV from my AD recently as they did not include the outer packing with full shipping labels, and all post marks from Rolex to AD. My old AD used to let me have this as a complete set but they lost status now, my new AD said they needed to check the delivery and ripped the barcode off.

Anyone waiting for a Rolex should stress to the AD how important all this is. I was told I am still on the list for both watches. I was bumped down the list, but was told I should get a second allocation really soon. It was a hard decision for me, but I don’t regret it yet. I was concerned everyone wants a complete set these days and buying at MSRP, I’d never move them on if I needed to.

For other brands like PP, it’s not important. Only the watch is really needed as you can tell it’s not fake with a loupe. I sold my Patek boxes and paperwork on eBay. I figured if someone wants just the box I’d get some cash, it’s OK as I have a travel case anyway.

[bonsai-man]

I should also add I also agree with Padi, but only for other non Rolex brands.

[smym18]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

I agree, I turned down a white steel Daytona LN and an LV from my AD recently as they did not include the outer packing with full shipping labels, and all post marks from Rolex to AD. My old AD used to let me have this as a complete set but they lost status now, my new AD said they needed to check the delivery and ripped the barcode off.

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. You turned down one of, if not the, hardest Rolex to get because they didn’t give you the shipping label it arrived in? What do you get out of having that? The “full set” crowd is weird. If you have box and card that’s all you need.

[wisguy]

Originally Posted by icnbne

Hey all, im finally looking to purchase another rolex, but the seller has indicated box and papers, but that doesn’t include outer box, original reciept or manuals service or otherwise

Just includes the warranty card and the green box- does this constitute box and papers? And would these omissions bother you?

Looking at a sea dweller 4k ceramic

Not a full set but probably good enough, I prefer full set but have bought without any box or papers.

You have to buy the seller, and be comfortable with it, at the end of the day you wear the watch not the papers, and if you adjust pricing accordingly you won't take a bath if you ever sell it.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by smym18

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. You turned down one of, if not the, hardest Rolex to get because they didn’t give you the shipping label it arrived in? What do you get out of having that? The “full set” crowd is weird. If you have box and card that’s all you need.

This. Sort of. I wouldn't call them weird, I just don't completely get it.

I understand that sometimes collecting comes with a certain "mania" for minutiae. Perhaps I am the oddball, because while I love as much as comes with the watch, I am not absolutely manic about it. I did turn down a James Cameron once because the AD refused the serial tag, not a huge deal, and the chrono tag, which did sort of bother me because that IS supposed to go with the set - even says so in the manual. I knew I could get one off eBay for 10 bucks, but the principle, coupled with customs duties and price () soured me.

This thread had funny timing because I just made a deal for a 14060M K serial with no serial tag (add another one to the list!). Had everything else I would consider sort of common - warranty papers, both manuals, translation booklet, calendar card, anchor and inner/outer. But, and to the point of all of this, no serial tag, no shipping labels (?), no bezel protector (?), no original purchase receipt and no coffin. So, this thread makes it clear that there are collectors like me, and others, who want box and papers and any other little goodies are great bonuses, and other collectors who want every single item that shipped from Switzerland, plus rare stuff like purchase receipts and barcodes (that is honestly first heard ever for me). To each their own...

Oh yeah, my 14060 did NOT have a red chrono tag, because it is a two liner so it didn't come with one. Though I oftentimes see them for sale with them. Which means maybe the AD just put one in, but I think more often means someone assembled a set later because they assume the end buyer will be manic and have to have that hang tag that didn't even come with it originally.

Good example of this....just saw a nice 16710 for sale with an early Z serial purchased in Hong Kong. All of the manuals for it were English manuals. That made me smile because I have a late Z serial 16710 purchased in HK, and I know in that era they gave all the manuals (Oyster, GMT) in French, or at least did for me. Also the outer box was technically wrong, but could have just been what was in the back. The point is, I'd bet 1000 dollars that "complete original set" was assembled more recently in the US and nobody even considered that perhaps the manuals wouldn't be in English.

To not be a cynic, I suppose that it is also possible that some AD's in HK in 2007 had English manuals, vice French. And that's what makes collecting these fun, and contributes to the mania I believe in that there are so many ways these watches were sold and packaged in a global marketplace. All the nuances breeds a little hysteria for these little details.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by smym18

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. You turned down one of, if not the, hardest Rolex to get because they didn’t give you the shipping label it arrived in? What do you get out of having that? The “full set” crowd is weird. If you have box and card that’s all you need.

Ah rumbled, Sorry everyone it wasn’t serious, but I couldn’t help myself after reading this thread through.

I set out my views regarding B&P in the “Value of the papers” thread so will not spam this thread with duplicates.

Have a great day all.