‘Box and papers’

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

Ah rumbled, Sorry everyone it wasn’t serious, but I couldn’t help myself after reading this thread through.

I set out my views regarding B&P in the “Value of the papers” thread so will not spam this thread with duplicates.

Have a great day all.

Haha. You got me. Look at my reply above where I was saying I had never heard of barcodes!

[Gaijin]

This is an ongoing debate and often thread here.

Value and future sale value aside.

My WG Daytona was stolen from me. I reported it. The attitude was yea right your $20,000 watch was stolen. Eyes rolling.The cops blew me off. It wasn't until I produced box, papers, hangtags ( and I was relentless ) did they take me seriously, input the serial number into their pawn shop database.


Whoa. Immediate hit on the serial number. Watch returned. Bad guy went to prison.

Box an papers are good to have.

[smym18]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

Ah rumbled, Sorry everyone it wasn’t serious, but I couldn’t help myself after reading this thread through.

I set out my views regarding B&P in the “Value of the papers” thread so will not spam this thread with duplicates.

Have a great day all.

I literally just came back to this thread because I was in my head saying there’s no way that one pose was serious and I fell for it. The rest of your post seemed serious so I was convinced lol.

[Tom5518]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

Ah rumbled, Sorry everyone it wasn’t serious, but I couldn’t help myself after reading this thread through.

I set out my views regarding B&P in the “Value of the papers” thread so will not spam this thread with duplicates.

Have a great day all.

You got me also. Congratulations, that's some seriously great trolling right there.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

This is an ongoing debate and often thread here.

Value and future sale value aside.

My WG Daytona was stolen from me. I reported it. The attitude was yea right your $20,000 watch was stolen. Eyes rolling.The cops blew me off. It wasn't until I produced box, papers, hangtags ( and I was relentless ) did they take me seriously, input the serial number into their pawn shop database.


Whoa. Immediate hit on the serial number. Watch returned. Bad guy went to prison.

Box an papers are good to have.

Glad you got the watch back and glad the guy went to the slammer. I am with you on one thing, I will NOT buy a watch without B&P. That to me is required to establish the basic identity of the watch. For particularly rare models I would then also require a trip for service to RSC, because once they send it back with a new card and the numbers there match the original papers and the watch, you are for sure dealing with a verified entity.

The issue seems to be how far do you take that. Model manual? Oyster manual? Red/Green chrono tag? Green/white serial tag? Inner and outer box? Liner? Translation card? Calendar card? Original receipt? Coffin? Bar coded box from factory ()?

It appears most agree that box and papers tell the story, and since anything can be faked send it to RSC from there to be absolutely sure that all numbers match if you are concerned or it is a rare reference. But also obvious that once you get beyond B&P some people really want lots of the above goodies, and are willing to pay a premium for them, and others could care less. I suppose I am somewhere in the middle. I like goodies and extras. I just don't turn down a great watch at a great price based on them. B&P is a different animal, and are required for me, even though Padi is correct that they are easily faked. Hell, all of it is easily faked - see my post on boxes and manuals - those are so often cobbled together after the fact and then sold as original it isn't even unusual. It's commonplace.

I like threads like these. Shows there are lots of passionate Rolex fans with lots of opinions on how they want to collect or be a part of the hobby.

[Gtecko]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

This is an ongoing debate and often thread here.

Value and future sale value aside.

My WG Daytona was stolen from me. I reported it. The attitude was yea right your $20,000 watch was stolen. Eyes rolling.The cops blew me off. It wasn't until I produced box, papers, hangtags ( and I was relentless ) did they take me seriously, input the serial number into their pawn shop database.


Whoa. Immediate hit on the serial number. Watch returned. Bad guy went to prison.

Box an papers are good to have.

what a story !!!

I , too, would preferably have a full set, only because I would love to retain the "full" value of my watch. However, depending on how juicy the deal is, you may want to get the papers and no box...

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Gtecko

what a story !!!

I , too, would preferably have a full set, only because I would love to retain the "full" value of my watch. However, depending on how juicy the deal is, you may want to get the papers and no box...

That's a good point. You can assemble a whole set of manuals and boxes that are period correct on eBay for less than 500 bucks if you are patient. If the price is right, and you don't mind putting in some light searching, you can get a helluva deal sometimes with just watch and papers.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Swaye

That's a good point. You can assemble a whole set of manuals and boxes that are period correct on eBay for less than 500 bucks if you are patient. If the price is right, and you don't mind putting in some light searching, you can get a helluva deal sometimes with just watch and papers.

That’s right, the original papers are unique to the watch and never reissued by Rolex. Everything else in the box including the warranty is replaceable by Rolex or a search on eBay. :thumbs up:

[bezler]

Originally Posted by Swaye

Don't misunderstand me. I see why people are willing to pay more for bits and pieces. That is not my argument. My argument is it is not technically correct to call serial tags part of a complete set when it is a known fact that not all AD's and all markets in the Rolex world will provide them.

Now, if I am looking at a Flat 4 Kermit, or a Zenith Daytona then yes, I would pay a small premium if the serial tag was included (small premium because to me it doesn't matter much - the warranty card/papers IS the important thing here), or if the anchor was there with the Sub, but I would't not buy a watch because a small price tag wasn't there, especially when many 20 year old watches do not have them because they were not given out all the time.

This is an argument based on being precise to me. Complete set to me means what every Rolex AD in the world is required to provide. Since many AD's WILL NOT provide a serial tag, that kind of invalidates "complete set."

You, or someone, mentioned "bezel protectors" as being part of a complete set. First heard for me? Is this now a required element of purchasing a Rolex? Not trying to bust anyones junk here, I just think this is taking all of this a bit far to "require" tags that are explicitly NOT given out at times, and bezel protectors that nobody ever kept until several years ago. Heh. And for the record I only have about 4 bezel protectors on my 10 watches. If they were in the box when I got home they stayed there. If not, whatever. Guess my collection is screwed now.

Again, I do agree if you are looking for a rare reference, and all the little bits and pieces are there, that can and will fetch a premium. I understand that. Whatever someone wants to spend their money on is fine by me.

Related but side note, it is quite time consuming just trying to decipher manuals and box configurations because ADs once upon a time had multiple different versions of boxes and manuals sitting in the back and would just chunk whatever in with the watch. So even boxes and manuals are more "period correct" than guaranteed original. MANY of the watches you see at very respected dealers are sold as original box and most certainly are not. They are a period set assembled in the back room. Now, this is probably not true on stuff from the last couple of years, but go back 10 years even and it is very likely a watch being purchased in it's original box was not the box that watch went home in. So much for original. And a personal story from me on this. When I bought that Hulk and could not get the serial tag due to policy, they for some reason put two Sub owners manuals in the box - an older version and the newer one. So I have two now. One correct. One incorrect. Or are they both correct because that is what they stuffed in there?

Good stuff. I could have shortened all of this and just said "for the most part I agree with Padi." And to each their own.

"Complete set" is a descriptive term. If you're willing to include incomplete sets under that term, then what do you call actual complete sets?

The fact that some parts aren't included by all dealers is unfortunate. And there's really nothing wrong with your neutral position on hang tags, or any of your opinions regarding aspects of what you might or might not find acceptable, or what you would be willing to pay for.

But you're mixing up your opinion with terminology. In the interest of accuracy and precision, please don't do that. It creates confusion.

[jaisonline]

What until you read Gaijin's thread about his ordeal. Whew.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=397832

And then

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=399286

Originally Posted by Gtecko

what a story !!!

I , too, would preferably have a full set, only because I would love to retain the "full" value of my watch. However, depending on how juicy the deal is, you may want to get the papers and no box...

[broham84]

Originally Posted by Seibei

A complete set is a complete set. The fact that some ADs do not provide a complete set does not mean that what these ADs provide is a complete set. It is either a complete set or it is not a complete set.

Nah, that just means you have a different definition than someone else.

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

I agree, I turned down a white steel Daytona LN and an LV from my AD recently as they did not include the outer packing with full shipping labels, and all post marks from Rolex to AD. My old AD used to let me have this as a complete set but they lost status now, my new AD said they needed to check the delivery and ripped the barcode off.

Anyone waiting for a Rolex should stress to the AD how important all this is. I was told I am still on the list for both watches. I was bumped down the list, but was told I should get a second allocation really soon. It was a hard decision for me, but I don’t regret it yet. I was concerned everyone wants a complete set these days and buying at MSRP, I’d never move them on if I needed to.

For other brands like PP, it’s not important. Only the watch is really needed as you can tell it’s not fake with a loupe. I sold my Patek boxes and paperwork on eBay. I figured if someone wants just the box I’d get some cash, it’s OK as I have a travel case anyway.

Please seek help.

[Gtecko]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

What until you read Gaijin's thread about his ordeal. Whew.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=397832

And then

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=399286

Yep... did the trick - pretty amazing


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