Springbar tools

[GrpCaptMandrake]

There are dozens of threads with hundreds of comments regarding springbar tools here on TRF. I've read many of them but haven't really found the answer to my questions, hence this post. I'll apologize in advance for the length.

Before proceeding to my questions, it may be worth mentioning that I want to be able to swap out a bracelet with leather, NATO and MN bands on both an Explorer and a newly acquired BB GMT. My 6767 tool has worked just fine on a variety of other, non-crown non-rose watches, including my beloved Alpinist (though its Strapcode Jubilee is quite the PITA to reinstall). I don't want to take a chance on scratching the Tudor or Rolex with the 6767, and so am looking at more sophisticated options.

The first question is with respect to type of pliers; Bergeon and Horofix each make two types. I don't know if there are technical terms for each, but one is a simple, two blade design (e. g., Bergeon 7825) while the other is more complex having a spring-loaded articulated joint and adjustment screws (e. g., Bergeon 6825). The 7825 design, being smaller and lighter, would appear to be a bit easier to use. The 6825 design is bulkier but its jaws can be locked, which would appear to be an advantage in some circumstances. The difference in the cost of replacement tips for each type is pretty significant as well. Is there consensus on which type is "better?"

Another question is with respect to manufacturer. Bergeon is favored, with most here on TRF giving them the nod for quality, particularly with respect to the tips. Tips aside, the Bergeon 6825 appears to be virtually identical to the Horofix. If that's truly the case, wouldn't the value proposition be the Horofix tool with Bergeon tips?

Again apologies for my novice-driven long post.

[MercedesHand]

Mandrake,

Ive owned everyone of these so I'll relate to you what I remember:

Still own the 6767. Great little tool. If you're competent with it (and provided you have appropiate tip) should work fine.

You spend the money on the other tools for the extra capabilities but there's alot of hype about pliers etc but in the end it comes down to technique and tip dimensions.

The 6825 (and the Horofix) are essentially the same tool. Both can adjust, lock, and articulating forks.

3 differences: 1) Each comes with two sets of forks but they are not same sizes so you need to know the dimensions of your springbars and the openings required 2) Price. The 6825 is like 80-100$ more! 3) Quality. Which is of course subjective. The 6825 feels heavier and better made. Though it may have been a fluke (and 1 time anecdotal event is not evidence) I had one of the forks on the Horofix snap under use. Ping!

I dont switch out the bracelets on my Rolex anymore but when I did the 7825 is what I used. Fast, forks are fixed and the supplied forks are smaller than the other standard issue sets. This is a bit of nonsensical marketing though because you can always get a set of locksmith files and custom your forks on any of these models. Some of the fork replacements are as much as the tools!

ALL of the tools are expensive relatively speaking except the 6767. Go on esslinger site and seach for these tools and you'll find all the info you ever wanted plus videos.

Something else that I found useful was a case cushion. This helped me get leverage without worrying about damaging my case or slippage. The Bergeon 5395-75-n is the one I used. Overpriced of course :)

Hope this helps.

[DtownRRS]

I have the Bergeon 7825 and swap out the Rolex bracelet for Everest rubber and back with zero issues and it takes seconds on the removal. 114060.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

Thanks for the replies.

It looks to me that the preference on TRF is for the Bergeon 7825 tweezers. On other watch forums, perhaps because they are not primarily devoted to Rolex, the preference for tweezers over pliers is not as marked, nor is the preference for Bergeon over Horotec as clear. Speaking as someone unfamiliar with anything but a simple springbar tool (though a Bergeon), the pliers would seem to be a better choice. While they are likely a bit more cumbersome, the locking feature seems like it would be very useful. The ability to angle the tips to 45 degrees also seems like it could be helpful. Are these real advantages or just apparent ones due to my unfamiliarity?

Pliers also offer a significant cost advantage, particularly if you have other watch brands that require tips of a different size than the fine ones needed for Rolex. The general feeling is that the Horotec tips are inferior but the Bergeon tips are about $20 and fit the $90 Horotec pliers, resolving that issue. By contrast, the Bergon tweezers are upwards of $150 and replacement tips $120. Horotec tweezers and tips are less, but still more expensive than pliers & their corresponding tips.

In the end, it's not clear to me why there is preference for tweezers over pliers. Perhaps it is because the tweezer-style tools are very similar to the Rolex 3200 springbar tool? Am I missing something more substantial about why the tweezers are preferred?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

Thanks for the replies. I'm sill not sure that I understand why there is preference for tweezers over pliers though. Perhaps it is because the tweezer-style tools are very similar to the "official" Rolex 3200 springbar tool?

Pliers, at least to my novice eyes, seem to offer some advantages over tweezers. The locking feature and the ability to angle the tips to 45 degrees would both seem to be useful features. Pliers and particularly replacement tips are also quite a bit less costly than tweezers and their tips. I've seen a number of comments that the Horotec tips are inferior to the Bergeon. But the Bergeon plier tips ($20) fit the $90 Horotec tool, inexpensively resolving that issue. If you need several tip sizes for watches other than Rolex (as I do), you will need to spend at least $100 for each size needed for either the Bergeon or Horotec tweezers vs $20 for the higher quality plier tips. Is my reasoning faulty? Am I missing something?

All that said, the above assumes that the springbar opening is compatible with the Bergeon fine point (1.4mm) tip. I've read that some newer Rolex bracelets have openings that are only 1.0mm and so need an extra fine tip. The smaller tip does not appears to be available for Bergeon pliers, only tweezers, though ironically, that size is one of the two that come with the Horotec pliers. Anyone know about this aspect of things? I can't easily measure the opening on my Explorer bracelet but suspect it's the smaller variety.

[torifile]

I’ve tried the spring loaded double tip version and the single tip bergeon 6767. Honestly, the single tip is easier to use once you get the technique down. I just make sure to tape off the lugs and go for it. The fact of the matter is that no matter how careful you are or what tool you use, you’re going to scratch the lugs. Just try to minimize the damage by using some tape.

[RJK]

Originally Posted by GrpCaptMandrake

Thanks for the replies. I'm sill not sure that I understand why there is preference for tweezers over pliers though. Perhaps it is because the tweezer-style tools are very similar to the "official" Rolex 3200 springbar tool?

Pliers, at least to my novice eyes, seem to offer some advantages over tweezers. The locking feature and the ability to angle the tips to 45 degrees would both seem to be useful features. Pliers and particularly replacement tips are also quite a bit less costly than tweezers and their tips. I've seen a number of comments that the Horotec tips are inferior to the Bergeon. But the Bergeon plier tips ($20) fit the $90 Horotec tool, inexpensively resolving that issue. If you need several tip sizes for watches other than Rolex (as I do), you will need to spend at least $100 for each size needed for either the Bergeon or Horotec tweezers vs $20 for the higher quality plier tips. Is my reasoning faulty? Am I missing something?

All that said, the above assumes that the springbar opening is compatible with the Bergeon fine point (1.4mm) tip. I've read that some newer Rolex bracelets have openings that are only 1.0mm and so need an extra fine tip. The smaller tip does not appears to be available for Bergeon pliers, only tweezers, though ironically, that size is one of the two that come with the Horotec pliers. Anyone know about this aspect of things? I can't easily measure the opening on my Explorer bracelet but suspect it's the smaller variety.

I own the 6825FF pliers and have also used a buddy of mines 7825FF tweezers. I find that, from an ease of use perspective, I like the tweezers better. The way each leg is angled felt more natural when inserting into the bracelet and allowed me to more easily put direct pressure on the springbars since the tips are more perpendicular.

I totally agree with you on the cost side. It’s insane that replacement tips for the tweezers is basically the same cost as an entirely new tool.

I can’t speak to Bergeon vs. Horotec. I’ve never handled any of Horotecs stuff.

[Gtecko]

Originally Posted by RJK

I own the 6825FF pliers and have also used a buddy of mines 7825FF tweezers. I find that, from an ease of use perspective, I like the tweezers better. The way each leg is angled felt more natural when inserting into the bracelet and allowed me to more easily put direct pressure on the springbars since the tips are more perpendicular.

I totally agree with you on the cost side. It’s insane that replacement tips for the tweezers is basically the same cost as an entirely new tool.

I can’t speak to Bergeon vs. Horotec. I’ve never handled any of Horotecs stuff.

+1 on the tweezer !

[Verdi]

I am also after one of these tools.

I recently got a DD and I would like to ask and confirm that Bergeon tweezers are the right ones for a 5digit ref DD.

My DD is a keeper and I already ordered 2 leather straps, of course I would like to change them myself.