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Old 2 March 2015, 04:50 AM   #1
LKr
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GMT Master Ref 1675 bracelet question

Hoping the wise sages here can help. I am looking at purchasing a GMT Master ref 1675. There is one in particular that I like. It's in great, original and unpolished condition and the price is right, BUT it's on a leather strap. I would want replace the leather strap with an authentic Rolex stainless bracelet, preferably a Jubilee, but I'd settle for an Oyster bracelet. I do not know which bracelet was original to the watch (watch does not come with original bracelet or papers).

My question is, if I send the watch to Rolex USA for service and ask that they also sell me and install a Jubilee bracelet, will Rolex agree to do so? If there's some dispute with Rolex as to whether the Jubilee was original to the watch, will Rolex sell/install an Oyster bracelet? Lastly, any experience in terms of cost for 1675 bracelet?

My main concern is that I won't have a bracelet to "trade in" for a new one and Rolex may refuse to provide a new bracelet under those circumstances. They can be pretty dictatorial. I'd greatly appreciate your insight and experience on this one.

Thanks much.
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Old 2 March 2015, 05:14 AM   #2
g-boac
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Compared to the vintage era, things are a little different today, particularly amongst some other brands, whose warranty cards DO print a unique reference number indicating whether a watch was originally sold on a bracelet, or one of SEVERAL different kinds of straps. This is not the case for your vintage 1675.

For example, the modern-day Omega Speedmaster Professional REF 3570.50.00 and REF 3870.50.31 are the exact same watch (same movement, same dial, case, hands, crystal, caseback), but one is sold on bracelet (3570.50.00) while the other is sold on a black alligator strap with deployant buckle. Regardless of which Speedmaster you purchase, you can later purchase a bracelet or strap from Omega, and swap at your pleasure; the watch itself doesn't care.

With regard to modern-day reference numbering, modern Rolex is a little different - a Sub REF 114060 is a Sub REF 114060; a 114060 isn't sold on other bracelet options or straps. In the instance of a modern GMT-Master II, you will have different reference numbers (which actually consist of numbers AND letters, in the case of a GMT), but, those numbers and letters indicate substantial differences: different bezels and different case materials (stainless steel vs. gold). In the case of a Daytona, which IS offered on both bracelet and strap, you WILL have different reference numbers, but the watch sold on a bracelet has a different dial as well, so again, you're buying a somewhat different watch altogether. From a corporate philosophy, Rolex are a little different than Omega: if your watch (say, the Daytona) originally came on a brown strap (REF 116519), they will NOT sell you the bracelet that comes on the 116509).

In the case of a vintage 1675, it was all the same watch, which left the factory with it's warranty card, under the same reference number. It was eventually paired at the point of sale by the AD with a bracelet option. Even if they were available in the circumstance of your watch, the original warranty papers won't offer you any information as to whether the watch was originally sold on an Oyster Bracelet, Jubilee bracelet, or, whether it was a Swiss Made Oyster Bracelet, or a USA-made C+I (although you could likely venture a guess, based on whether the papers were originally stamped by a US AD).

Rolex Service Centers (RSC) generally address things like missing bracelets on a case-by-case basis, so best to call them and ask. However, an even better approach is looking in the sales corner here, or posting a WTB ad, for the jubilee bracelet you are looking for and you'll likely find one to your liking pretty quickly!

As for servicing your watch, you'll likely want to avoid sending to RSC, because all the attributes you like about the watch - dial, hands, crystal, will be replaced, the case will be polished, and the original items will not be returned to you, they will be destroyed. In addition to paying a lot for the service, your watch will be substantially devalued. At RSC, their service goals are different from ours. As collectors and vintage watch enthusiasts, our priorities are typically preserving originality; RSC's priority is returning your watch to you, in as close to like-new condition as possible. They accomplish this goal, however, using modern-day service replacement parts, to replace any items which have been degraded by age or wear/tear. In the case of your dial and hands, in RSC's view, they are degraded by age, because they no longer glow as they did per their original specification, hence, the replacement. Same thing if your bezel is faded. Your best move here, is servicing the watch with an independent watchmaker you trust. References are available here on this forum.

Above all else though, the advice applies that, if the watch isn't right, (and that can include what it comes with, or doesn't come with), keep looking. With regard to your watch, feel free to post photographs of the watch to this thread, and you'll get feedback from other members as to its condition and correctness (genuine, original parts? refinished or replaced? etc), which will help you decide whether you have a good buy or not. Good luck, and welcome!!
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Old 2 March 2015, 05:17 AM   #3
jdmi32
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Welcome to the forum! The period correct bracelet for your GMT Master would depend on its serial number. I'm pretty sure that Rolex would be more than happy to sell you a new bracelet, but I don't know if the Jubilee is still available from them.

I recently removed the 7836 Oyster bracelet from my 1655 and took the head only to my AD and asked them to order a 78360 for me. They told me it was not available and could only order the 93150, which I accepted. They noted the serial number and sent that over to Rolex N.Y. and the few days later a new 93150 was sent to their store.
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Old 2 March 2015, 05:30 AM   #4
TimeToGo
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Welcome to the Forum!

As mentioned, the bracelet options depend on the year of production..
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Old 2 March 2015, 06:00 AM   #5
springer
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You might want to check the forum "For Sale" section for a vintage Jubilee bracelet . I've seen a few oval link Jubilees for sale here lately. You have two vintage Jubilee options - the USA, solid oval links version and the Swiss 6251 Jubilee which has a rolled or folded look when viewing the side of the bracelet links. Neither of these bracelets are available from Rolex anymore.

The oval link USA Jubilee bracelets are not date coded and the end links do not have numbers. The Swiss 6251 Jubilee bracelet usually has the date stamped on the clasp and should have the number 50 on the end links, or 55 which would also work but were not originally intended for GMT models.

Prices for the vintage Jubilees vary from around $300 all the way up to $900 based on condition. Normally, a nice vintage Jubilee can be found for substantially less than $900.

The newer "D" link Jubilee, model 62510 replaced the vintage GMT Jubilee bracelets for the GMT and utilize 550 end links. These bracelets are also available on the secondary market.

I would expect that you could buy the newer 62510 from Rolex, but the price will be rather substantial although I believe that the price is reduced from full retail when purchased with a service.

Be careful sending any vintage model to a service center since you might end up with replacement parts (dials, hands and bezel inserts) which will significantly diminish the value of your watch.
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Old 2 March 2015, 09:15 AM   #6
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+1 :-}
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Old 2 March 2015, 12:21 PM   #7
LKr
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Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The info is very helpful.
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Old 2 March 2015, 12:32 PM   #8
H.K.Glock 007
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What are the original numbers given to the oyster bracelet and end links on an original 1675?
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Old 2 March 2015, 01:27 PM   #9
springer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.K.Glock 007 View Post
What are the original numbers given to the oyster bracelet and end links on an original 1675?
Try this link in the reference section for Swiss bracelet info.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=73646

The USA Oyster bracelet for vintage GMTs was the C&I Oyster. It did not have end link numbers or a model number. The clasp was date coded with the last two digits of a year and another number for the month.
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Old 3 March 2015, 10:36 PM   #10
H.K.Glock 007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Try this link in the reference section for Swiss bracelet info.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=73646

The USA Oyster bracelet for vintage GMTs was the C&I Oyster. It did not have end link numbers or a model number. The clasp was date coded with the last two digits of a year and another number for the month.
Thank you
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Old 2 May 2015, 02:40 AM   #11
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Newbie, guys!

Am I correct in understanding that if you bought an older Submariner on a Nato strap, and then you went to an AD and purchased the bracelet that would have originally corresponded to the watch when it was sold new, you could then send it to RSC and they would service it?

They just wouldn't service it if there was a custom made leather strap or some NATO strap on it, right?
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Old 2 May 2015, 03:43 AM   #12
Vincent65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhorn02 View Post
Newbie, guys!

Am I correct in understanding that if you bought an older Submariner on a Nato strap, and then you went to an AD and purchased the bracelet that would have originally corresponded to the watch when it was sold new, you could then send it to RSC and they would service it?

They just wouldn't service it if there was a custom made leather strap or some NATO strap on it, right?

I took my E-serial (1990) 16600 SD to a very well-known and long-established Rolex AD here:

Beyer - Zürich, Bahnhofstrasse 31

I had taken the bracelet off, and just gave them the watch-head, which they had no qualms about accepting for a movement-only service, and I specified no polish was required either. It was done in-house, so they did not send to Geneva. Experiences around the globe vary dramatically, and if it had gone to Geneva, I certainly would have encountered a few more questions and criteria!
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