Is this 1970 Sub genuine?

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by southtexas

How are these predictions made by whoever generated this list, and why is this the definitive list for you?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, because I don't think anyone can know that. It's been my experience that any/every one of these lists is a suggestion of ranges with zero absolutes(at least as vintage is concerned).



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I agree with you 100%. There is no definitive list. This list just seems to be the most consistent and the most widely used from my internet travels.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

I agree with you 100%. There is no definitive list. This list just seems to be the most consistent and the most widely used from my internet travels.

That's my question--consistent with what? Did whoever generated this list use papered watches, caseback stamps, any/all of above to come up with their ranges?


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[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by southtexas

That's my question--consistent with what? Did whoever generated this list use papered watches, caseback stamps, any/all of above to come up with their ranges?


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No idea, someone who has been around the watch scene much longer than I may have the answer.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Case-backs are rarely date-stamped to correspond 'exactly' to the implied date period of the mid-case serial number, in my experience. The case-backs often pre-dated the mid-cases, as did bracelets, but the lines are all blurred. As an example, my 1680 has "1/70" in the case-back, but the mid-case is 2.6mil which, I was reliably informed (according to Rolex's internal archive records), puts it at a c1971 production. Meanwhile, the bracelet is "3/69".

Exactly! We can only estimate dates. Blindly follow any list online at your own peril, although some are more accurate than others.

Another example: Here's a 4 mil. serial authentic Comex Sub 5514 caseback engraved "I 72" (5513 engraved is correct too), and since the serial number is engraved into it, unlike regular Subs, there's no debate about whether the caseback might have been swapped. Virtually every list online shows 4-mil. cases starting in 1974/5, but here's just one example where that's not necessarily true. (Also, we often forget that Rolex serial numbers were not always sequential with years.)

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

No idea, someone who has been around the watch scene much longer than I may have the answer.

Guys, it's just a best effort, right? Since there is no definitive source (ie. Rolex sharing the info).

I would like to believe that the enthusiasts/experts/WIS out there are all trying to help each other out and sharing what info/experience/knowledge they have and over time we gather the common denominators (ie. the aforementioned "consistent") and go with it.

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

This is the list that I have always used.

Serial # ...........................Date

20000 .............................1927
22500 .............................1928
25000 .............................1929
26500 .............................1930
28000 .............................1931
28500 .............................1932
29000 .............................1933
32000 .............................1934
35000 .............................1935
37000 .............................1936
40000 .............................1937
55000 .............................1938
71000 .............................1939
90000 .............................1940
106000 ............................1941
150000 ............................1942
230000 ............................1943
270000 ............................1944
302000 ............................1945
400000 ............................1946
529000 ............................1947
570000 ............................1948
600000 ............................1949
650000 ............................1950
700000 ............................1951
800000 ............................1952
900000 ............................1953
10000 to 300000 ....1953 to 1957
350000 ............................1958
400000 ............................1959
550000 ............................1960
700000 ............................1961
800000 ............................1962
900000 ............................1963
1000000 ...........................1964
1200000 ...........................1965
1400000 ...........................1966
1600000 ...........................1967
1850000 ...........................1968
2300000 ...........................1969
2500000 ...........................1970
2900000 ...........................1971
3300000 ...........................1972
3750000 ...........................1973
3900000 ...........................1974
4250000 ...........................1975
4500000 ...........................1976
5000000 ...........................1977
5400000 ...........................1978
5950000 ...........................1979
6400000 ...........................1980
7000000 ...........................1981
7350000 ...........................1982
7750000 ...........................1983
8100000 ...........................1984
8600000 ...........................1985
9000000 ...........................1986
9500000 ...........................1987
R000001 ...........................1988
L000001 ...........................1989
E000001 ...........................1990
X000001 ...........................1991
N000001 ...........................1991
C000001 ...........................1992
S000001 ...........................1993
W000001 ..........................1994
T000001 ...........................1996
U000001 ...........................1997
A000001 ...........................1998
P000001 ...........................2000
K000001 ...........................2001
Y000001 ...........................2002
F000001 ...........................2003

D000001 ...........................2005
Z000001 ...........................2006
Z000001 ...........................2007
V000001 ...........................2008
G000001 ......................Mid 2010
Random Numbers .........Late 2010

My one owner GMT from 1968 has a 181xxxx serial and is from the fourth quarter of 68!

[J!m]

We are drifting off topic but it is an interesting diversion. In my opinion.

I began compiling my own chart of date stamped case back watches and serial numbers. These are current and prior for sale ads found all over the web. Some are better then others and any could be case back swaps so a decent pool of samples is needed. For my test grade I think I have 25-30 from each year I looked at (69, 70 and 71).

Bottom line from my research is any serial range could easily span plus or minus a calendar year. I think some on line lists are better than others but it is on the user of the list to ensure it is a list you are comfortable with and want to rely upon.

Also I think Rolex does not release the production dates for four digit models simply because they have no idea. I believe batches of cases were engraved and put in bins or whatever, and the assemblers grabbed the parts as needed which certainly did not follow a strict numerical order. My little research project further reinforces this theory.

[Base-Z]

This is my Warranty booklet from 1970.
Need a better picture of the hands, might be replaced?

[exador]

Ha! Never noticed this before. ROLEX without the O as would be too confusing:

R000001 ...........................1988
L000001 ...........................1989
E000001 ...........................1990
X000001 ...........................1991

[swish77]

Originally Posted by J!m

We are drifting off topic but it is an interesting diversion. In my opinion.

I began compiling my own chart of date stamped case back watches and serial numbers. These are current and prior for sale ads found all over the web. Some are better then others and any could be case back swaps so a decent pool of samples is needed. For my test grade I think I have 25-30 from each year I looked at (69, 70 and 71).

Bottom line from my research is any serial range could easily span plus or minus a calendar year. I think some on line lists are better than others but it is on the user of the list to ensure it is a list you are comfortable with and want to rely upon.

Also I think Rolex does not release the production dates for four digit models simply because they have no idea. I believe batches of cases were engraved and put in bins or whatever, and the assemblers grabbed the parts as needed which certainly did not follow a strict numerical order. My little research project further reinforces this theory.

I would go with a range of at least two calendar years. See my example of the 5514 above with a 4 mil. serial and a first quarter 1972 case back that could not have been swapped because the serial number is engraved into it. Some reputable lists would put that serial number as a 1975 watch!

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Base-Z

This is my Warranty booklet from 1970.
Need a better picture of the hands, might be replaced?

That's the date it was sold

[Xantiagib]

Looks more like a '69 to me

twin-lock crown, not a meters first, the bezel with the 'long' 5 could be earlier but period correct for a '69?

[htbilgic]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

My one owner GMT from 1968 has a 181xxxx serial and is from the fourth quarter of 68!

Fake.

Just kidding :)

[Base-Z]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

That's the date it was sold

Yes I know that, my watch dates to 1968, but was not sold until 1970.
I posted the picture because a comment had been made about hand written
warrenty booklets. Springer correctly posted that hand written booklets
were used during the periods mentioned, and my picture was just to confirm it.

[spoilsofwar01]

Is it possible that you can contact Rolex with the serial number and ask for confirmation of the date of manufacture and if its been serviced by them at any point, I did with mine but then again it came with a Rolex service card and the date tied up, I also gained additional information, just a thought

[springer]

Originally Posted by watchlovr

I don't see your case back reference as being particularly accurate.
Who is to say any case back was born with any particular watch or even matched a case number date in the first place?
It is interesting but surely we must go by case numbers.

They are actual watches where the serial numbers and case back date stampings taken directly from the watches.

There are many examples in my chart for a reason.