Dear Rolex: You are a Joke

[Canook]

Originally Posted by teo

What about patek philippe nautilus waiting list? A simple watch with 3 hands.

im pretty sure they are not a mass produced watch like Rolex and there is a reason for smaller numbers been made available.... dont get me wrong i know Rolex still do a large part by hand but having 300 people assemble watches is prob alot different to 15 people......
I made these numbers up but you catch my drift of what im trying to say... we are not comparing production numbers as "apples to apples" for these ones

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by Mastergreenhand

I agree, Seth. It's ridiculous and Rolex doesn't need this gimmick to maintain their appearance as a status symbol. They think by limiting output makes people want the model even more. And maybe it does, but it's really frustrating. I want one. But I can't get one. I can afford it MSRP. I can't afford the dealer mark up prices. So I'm just out of luck.

and here lies the problem....this model will be sold for the next 15 years if the 116520 is any indication....and will not be hard to get in a matter of a year or 2

shame on rolex. the daytona-c is nothing more than a 2002 chrono model(116520) with a ceramic bezel!!!!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

and here lies the problem....this model will be sold for the next 15 years if the 116520 is any indication....and will not be hard to get in a matter of a year or 2

shame on rolex. the daytona-c is nothing more than a 2002 chrono model(116520) with a ceramic bezel!!!!

Blames Rolex for not changing enough on the Daytona. Loves a watch that's unchanged for 60 years.

[Wingman244]

Totally agree with the OP. I have just started in my love for watches. Purchased a 216570 Polar Explorer II as my first watch. I caught Daytona fever last year and then I heard about the wait time for the 500C - It literally just killed my passion for the brand. I sold my Explorer II, traded it for a Zenith El Primero. The thing I like about Omega and Zenith - they are hungry - they want my business and they are trying to bring out models I like. Rolex - they will throw us a bone every year or so and maybe if we are lucky we can buy it. Not me - not playing that game. I worked hard for my money and will spend it with a company that tries to earn it. I hate, hate the attitude of a company that says - they are better than you and maybe, just maybe we will let you buy their product.

[sensui]

First....Seth/Superdog......I completely agree with you and I'm not a fan of this type of marketing. Just as much as I am against limited editions from Omega and other marketing practices from different companies outside of watches to garnish demand. So kudos for speaking up on the Rolex forum.....but I doubt you are getting hate mails because I'm sure no one likes this type of marketing/practice.....IMO it's the same reason why they "frown upon" ADs selling watches @ a premium but not doing anything definitive about it....it's all to maintain exclusivity and the image of the brand.

Now I am both a Rolex and Omega fan and have seen your journey as of late to exclusively Omega, I applaud you for following your taste instead of having everyone else dictating blindly Rolex is the cat's meow and following suit. But as much as most people dislike these practices from Rolex......no one can deny it works. Really the mass majority of the market aren't WIS and don't understand the dynamics (or the actual watches themselves) and follow hype.....and boy does Rolex generate hype no matter what little thing they do. It's an unstoppable marketing force by now with the empire they've established. The Daytona has long been infamous for this type of practice....that's why poor guys in Japan for example still has to pay above msrp for used good conditioned 116520s.....they've established this for the Daytona line and I don't forsee them changing this anytime soon. They want to make sure the moment 1 releases to the wild people clamor and line up like it's the next coming of a messiah...and they'll do this for as long as it happens and then make another minor change to restart the cycle. We all know what's happening.....the increased premium on them is simple mass demand and controlled supply so that shouldn't be a surprise. You just have to choose if you want to play the game.....and I applaud you for not....but I wouldn't let it affect your decision on other Rolex pieces.....like the DJ41 for example you are eyeing.

My 2 cents.

[HogwldFLTR]

Well, I saw at an AD a Daytona in TT with an advertised discount (a couple of thousand off). It basically cost the same as the new SkyD in SS. It was tempting but I just didn't like the watch that much. Maybe I'll go back and look at it again but the dial looked small and didn't pop for me. I wonder if some of the hype with the Daytona C in SS is to help sell the rest of the Daytona models. Regardless, it likely keeps their production line balanced by throttling the supply for the Daytona; it also likely assures a long lifetime for the model. It they unbalanced the production line to make as many as possible the demand would fall, other watches wouldn't be supplied, and the length of the Daytona run could be reduced. Just speculating, fwiw.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Blames Rolex for not changing enough on the Daytona. Loves a watch that's unchanged for 60 years.

i don't mind the current iteration.not for me however due to size. would have been nice to see a 42mm option.

the 60 yrs went over my head?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

i don't mind the current iteration.not for me however due to size. would have been nice to see a 42mm option.

the 60 yrs went over my head?

I don't follow omega closely enough so I shouldn't be talking. I assumed the speedy pro was largely unchanged but maybe I'm wrong.

[DCheeta]

Originally Posted by c41006

I totally disagree with forcing people to engrave but isn't that decision made by the AD and not Rolex themselves?

Absolutely. But certainly policies like that are a direct result of Rolex's manufactured demand and hype by purposely limiting supply. The policy only applied to the 116500.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I don't follow omega closely enough so I shouldn't be talking. I assumed the speedy pro was largely unchanged but maybe I'm wrong.

i get it. the speedmaster handle.

[jazznpool]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

I don't understand how limiting supply so significantly helps Rolex's business objectives. Perhaps a moderate constraint increases demand, but wouldn't it be better to meet the market demand or at least much closer to it, and sell many more units in a given period of time?

In the coming months I think it is altogether possible that Rolex will quietly increase production to a modest degree on the Daytona C and distribute more of them to the ADs to capitalize on the current fervor. Would an increase in availability of 20-25% be detectable by our TRF bretheren?

[Chiboy]

If Rolex really wanted to be greedy, they would up the MSRP of the SS Daytona to $14k or so. Like a popular rock group who prices their tickets low, and then sees scalpers buying them up and reselling at 2x-3x the price, Rolex doesn't make any more on a Daytona that sells to the ultimate customer for $16k. That all goes to the AD who bundles the watch with a slow seller, or the lucky customer who flips it to a gray marketer.

Perhaps Rolex doesn't make much on the Daytona, so they try to use it to bring people into the showroom who ultimately buy something else that is readily available. I don't know.

Full disclosure: I got on the white Daytona list and grew impatient and bought a slightly used Platona. I sure showed Rolex! lol

I feel everyone's pain, but there's lots of good choices out there and if you can't get what you want in a reasonable time period or at the price you think is fair, like the OP, you should look elsewhere.

I have done that with cars -- when Honda Preludes or Mazda Miatas were going for thousands over list, I bought something else. No one promised me I could get one, and I didn't. Then I moved on to better brands... It's a dangerous game, not satisfying those who want to be your customer.

[Eva123]

Situation with Daytona - C is really absurd. This is not a limited edition watch but production quantities are really artificially small. This gives a right to various ADs to make absurd requests such us:

1) Create mystique lists.
2) Asking to engrave back of the watch in order to prevent flipping.
3) Witholding warranty card (IMHO this is illegal thing).

I was lucky to buy Daytona-C but in January bit my wife was not happy with that purchase. So, I sold watch with quite good profit. Then I asked for another Daytona-C and found out that my AD changed its sales tactics - now I can get Daytona - C if I buy any full gold watch together. I politely said "thanks but NO".

[maximus1]

I agree it is pretty absurd to limit production to this extreme. Rolex could increase production and still have enough demand. I guess I'm fortunate to already have the 166520 and not want the new model.

[Chadridv]

Nice rant my friend!

I totally see your point, mostly agree however don't feel quite as passionately about it as you. I think mystique is not always the worst way to promote your company and increase prestige, I do however despise game playing which is clearly a big part of this.

I happen to know you're an omega man, which I respect in every regard. I also think it's cool that omega doesn't hide behind false limited production. Meaning omega makes truly limited run watches. Often watches that are still relatively easy for enthusiasts to obtain but still maintain a mystique in all the right ways. I'll also add (on a side note) that I've had only amazing experiences at omega service at the NYC boutique, whereas Rolex has a more than 50/50 shot of being a nightmare, lol.

[whizz]

I hear ya mate, last time went to AD asked them about DaytonaC and I don't like the way the sales consultant refuse to put my name in the "waiting list" unless I bought a few watches with them already. So I walked out and decided not to follow this game Rolex created for this particular watch. I ended up buying a mint 16523 white dial and be happy with it.

[KingRichard]

I agree 100% with this and feel your anger. I hate to say it because I love so many of their watches, but to wait 7 to 8 years is really not worth it for a Rolex...we are not talking about the holy grail of horology here that is going to be pushing 6 figures any time soon. It's a $#ck!ng daytona with a ceramic bezel! I really wouldn't be satisfied to wait more than a year for this. Rolex is creating demand by cutting supply...to extremes.

OR

Maybe they are having difficulties with catching up because they spent so much time and energy figuring out how they could fit a cyclops on an iconic piece that, until now, has never had a cyclops on it!!!

[snyde]

Rolex, is limiting the supply without increasing prices. Creating an exclusive clientele base and alienating the rest. Am I missing something ?

[GradyPhilpott]

We have to accept Rolex as it is.

Rolex and indeed the entire Swiss watch industry was nearly, by whisker, yea verily, wiped out in the Eighties.

It was then that Rolex had to reinvent themselves from a fine watch company to a luxury watch company just to survive.

That model has worked for them and much of the remaining Swiss watch industry.

Mystique and the perception of scarcity are part and parcel of the luxury industries.

Now the industry worldwide is facing a similar crisis.

It's hardly likely that Rolex is going to change strategies now.

We talk an awful lot about Rolex and tool watches here on TRF, but if you call up some of those threads about the new SD, it is easy to see that our members don't really view any Rolex as a tool watch. Almost every post about the SD is about fashion and how much the watch will be worth down the road.

I don't think a single person mentioned the specifications of the watch, except as an aside.

Whether or not anyone likes it, the way Rolex does business is the very reason they are so sought after.

[Showcall]

Originally Posted by DCheeta

I hear ya Seth. I waited almost a year for one, and then when my number came up and I was about to hand over my credit card, they told me I had to engrave the back in order to leave with it. This disgusted me and made me lose my taste for the watch completely. No thanks Rolex, I'll get a new 60th Anniv Speedmaster instead.

I still love Rolex and happily wear them, and I get why they hype it like that, but it's just not a game I want to play.

WTF did they expect you to engrave the back? and engrave what exactly? Are you guys going to Rolex Centres or AD's?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Nice rant my friend!

I totally see your point, mostly agree however don't feel quite as passionately about it as you. I think mystique is not always the worst way to promote your company and increase prestige, I do however despise game playing which is clearly a big part of this.

I happen to know you're an omega man, which I respect in every regard. I also think it's cool that omega doesn't hide behind false limited production. Meaning omega makes truly limited run watches. Often watches that are still relatively easy for enthusiasts to obtain but still maintain a mystique in all the right ways. I'll also add (on a side note) that I've had only amazing experiences at omega service at the NYC boutique, whereas Rolex has a more than 50/50 shot of being a nightmare, lol.

Agree wholeheartedly about the boutiques.

Wempe and tourneau do a job on Rolex behalf.

[michaelodonnell123]

Luxury has its price, and complaining about it doesn't make sense. The issue is not Rolex, rather the issue is you don't have enough money to buy what you want. Any Rolex is available if you got the cash. I don't hear anybody complaining about the cost of a Rolls Royce.

A watch is only a 'tool' if it is used as such. Most folks here are not using it as a tool, as they don't go deep diving and don't use it for its "intended" purpose. Instead, they just use it as expensive jewelry and take lots of pics of it and post them here. You can't even say that you like to look at the movement of a Rolex because they cover it up with a solid case back. If you were really into diving and just wanted a tool watch, then you would get a Seiko PADI and go out diving as often as you can. A Rolex would be the last thing on your mind.

Rolex is a smart company, and figured out a looooong time ago exactly what I just said and capitalized on it ever since. They know that most folks only buy it for "the name" and will probably never use it as a tool watch. They price it high and make some pieces 'scarce' all in the name to keep up the 'luxury' image - plain and simple. Without a doubt, they are laughing all the way to the bank. What's in your wallet?

[vipereaper30]

I get it that it can be frustrating to those that want it but can't source it or afford the markup from a reseller. But the exclusivity, even if it's just perceived, is good for the brand and that's why they do it. The 7-8 year waitlist talk is BS...Rolex will be slowly increasing production to help fill the massive demand which is partly driven by the exclusivity factor.

Veblen goods exist and thrive with low supplies and high prices and, like it or not, that's one of the realities of being a part of the leisure class. Once you get that watch on your wrist I bet you'll take some amount of satisfaction that there many others out there frustrated that they can't afford or source one of their own.

[Dartmouthbrian]

In marketing it's called a scarcity model. Supreme, Nike, Adidas, Nintendo, Sony, Apple, Microsoft etc etc etc all do it. It works, it drives consumer demand, but most importantly it keeps value high.

[Seaswirl]

Originally Posted by vipereaper30

I get it that it can be frustrating to those that want it but can't source it or afford the markup from a reseller. But the exclusivity, even if it's just perceived, is good for the brand and that's why they do it. The 7-8 year waitlist talk is BS...Rolex will be slowly increasing production to help fill the massive demand which is partly driven by the exclusivity factor.

Veblen goods exist and thrive with low supplies and high prices and, like it or not, that's one of the realities of being a part of the leisure class. Once you get that watch on your wrist I bet you'll take some amount of satisfaction that there many others out there frustrated that they can't afford or source one of their own.

I don't think it's a question of being able to afford the mark up. I simply won't pay above retail out of principal. Hell, if it was $14k retail and available, I'd buy one right now. I also wouldn't get any satisfaction from others being unable to attain one. I enjoy my current watches immensely and all of them are easily attainable.

[Muzz]

The whole sport line seems to be chocked back for some reason. Personally it feels like it is just slowing down the ready to buy customers a bit. I am sure there is a reason for it similar to the "everyone wants what they can have" perspective.

[vipereaper30]

Originally Posted by Seaswirl

I don't think it's a question of being able to afford the mark up. I simply won't pay above retail out of principal. Hell, if it was $14k retail and available, I'd buy one right now. I also wouldn't get any satisfaction from others being unable to attain one. I enjoy my current watches immensely and all of them are easily attainable.

Yeah that's completely valid, poor choice of words on my part. Most here could afford it but are just unwilling.

You say you'd spring for the 14k right now if one were available. If the watch was sitting in every AD's display case do you think you would still feel the same way?

[Seaswirl]

Originally Posted by vipereaper30

Yeah that's completely valid, poor choice of words on my part. Most here could afford it but are just unwilling.

You say you'd spring for the 14k right now if one were available. If the watch was sitting in every AD's display case do you think you would still feel the same way?

I'd pay $14k right now regardless of its availability. It wouldn't be any different than when I bought my SubC Date, Spedmaster, Portuguese Chrono or 116520 Daytona as all were readily available at the time I purchased them.

[watchmavan]

Perhaps this is Rolex culture, it's not just about money. It's about desirability and this is increased by limiting supply. But 7-8 years is enough for many to say no thanks. I don't have this problem as I can't afford what they're asking for one. Interestingly though I can afford what they're worth with a substantial margin added for profit. Just can afford the profit that are wanting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Smarties]

I personally don't know anyone (even people who are not only rich, but filthy rich) willing to pay above msrp to acquire 116500.

How grey market can sustain ridiculous premium for such a long time really amuse me!

I'm sure a lot of people here can swing several ice blue Daytona anytime without breaking a sweat. But paying a few thousand more on 116500 would be...,"no, thank you".