For similar price: Rolex DJ II or Grand Seiko SD?

[stockae92]

For "similar prices", would you pick a Rolex DJ II or Grand Seiko Spring Drive?

What say you?

[Gharddog03]

Gs

[PJ S]

Which aspect appeals to you more – value retention of a mass produced item or hand assembled item in a significantly lower volume?
To add to that, you have a 5 year warranty versus a 3 year warranty (4 if you buy from the boutiques, but less/no discount).
Additionally, the former includes refinishing in the servicing price, the latter is a separate cost, and will necessitate a trip back to the factory – and it ain’t cheap, from what I’ve read.

[lapince]

Depends which one of each, many different models, without specific models hard to answer

[SSCosmo]

Originally Posted by stockae92

For "similar prices", would you pick a Rolex DJ II or Grand Seiko Spring Drive?

What say you?

The looks of most GS watches are very different from the look of a DJ, so it really depends on what you prefer. The DJ is a much more blingy watch and the one to go with if you want people to know you're wearing an expensive watch. The GS is much more under the radar and even if someone notices it (which they will just because the case polishing is so nice), once they see "Seiko", they will think it's just an average watch.

Both brands make great, dependable watches, but IMO, GS's attention to detail, polishing, hands and dials are on a different level. You get much more for your money with a GS, but you will probably get more money back down the road if you sell the Rolex.

[Cru Jones]

The GS's movement, dial and case are very nice, but the bracelet and clasp let down the whole package.

For the same money, I'd go DJII.

[SSCosmo]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The GS's movement, dial and case are very nice, but the bracelet and clasp let down the whole package.

For the same money, I'd go DJII.

I think it's funny when people point to the bracelets and clasps of Grand Seiko watches as a reason not to buy one. I have two GS watches with bracelets, and never found either of them to be lacking or uncomfortable in any way. Sure, the construction of Rolex bracelets and inclusion of Easylink make them better, but that doesn't mean that GS bracelets and clasps are somehow inadequate or sub par. Rolex probably makes the best bracelets in the industry, regardless of price. GS bracelets may not be as nice, but they are on par with any other watch, particularly in the same price range, like Omega, IWC, etc. So if all one cares about in a watch is the bracelet, they should probably just stick with buying only Rolexes.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by SSCosmo

I think it's funny when people point to the bracelets and clasps of Grand Seiko watches as a reason not to buy one. I have two GS watches with bracelets, and never found either of them to be lacking or uncomfortable in any way. Sure, the construction of Rolex bracelets and inclusion of Easylink make them better, but that doesn't mean that GS bracelets and clasps are somehow inadequate or sub par. Rolex probably makes the best bracelets in the industry, regardless of price. GS bracelets may not be as nice, but they are on par with any other watch, particularly in the same price range, like Omega, IWC, etc. So if all one cares about in a watch is the bracelet, they should probably just stick with buying only Rolexes.

That's exactly right, in my opinion. If one is able to appreciate the overall package of the GS despite the lame bracelet and clasp, go ahead and buy one.

Personally, I really like the snowflake dial, its movement and the idea of GS, but, wearing one is a different story. For me, the elements of the watch are not in sufficient harmony.

[Psmith]

Would depend on the exact model, but generally the GS - just a more interesting watch imho.

[Star Ferry]

What else is in your collection? I think a DJ II would be a better daily, but if you already have a bunch of Rolex, then a spring drive would be a nice addition

[brandrea]

DJ2 would be my choice

[Borsika]

I love my SBGE033G. One has to see a GS in person to appreciate its extraordinary quality. Its GS leather strap is excellent, much thicker than other standard straps and it is very comfortable at the same time. I enjoy wearing something not so "mainstream".

[sea-dweller]

I'd go with a Rolex.

[Demosthene]

Grand Seiko 9R65 without a doubt!

[joli160]

The GS Spring drive is a fascinating piece of technology. GS are no more "mass produced" than Rolex, most probably even less so. Without doubt the very high level of polishing the case, finish of the movement and quality of the dial with its facetted markers and sharp hands is far above any Rolex.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by joli160

The GS Spring drive is a fascinating piece of technology.

Yes it is.
21 years were devoted to it by one engineer, in order to make it feasible.

Originally Posted by joli160

GS are no more "mass produced" than Rolex, most probably even less so.

No probably about it!
Rolex makes circa 800K watches per annum (others will add, “and the rest”), including Celini – the majority of production/assembly being mechanised.
Seiko makes circa 15-17K mechanical watches (ignoring the quartz only models and Astrons), which includes Spring Drive, 28.8k and 36k automatics, Credor, Galante, and the likes of Marinemaster and certain others, such as the Ltd Edition Presage Chrono and 3-handers with lacquer and enamel dials – all of which are completely hand-assembled.
The only thing Rolex and Grand Seiko share in any respect, is a similar-ish price point – and even that’s artificial in the export markets compared to the JDM prices.

Originally Posted by joli160

Without doubt the very high level of polishing the case, finish of the movement and quality of the dial with its facetted markers and sharp hands is far above any Rolex.

The movement finish is about equal with Rolex’s – it’s pleasing to the view, but it’s not the last word in refinement. It’s adequate given the cost of the watch and the philosophy behind the ethos of Grand Seiko.
For greater refinement, Credor exists to satisfy that requirement.

[vman]

Gs

[BigAl72]

GS all the way.


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[Jay (Eire)]

More support for GS as a brand here.

The Spring Drive models however are not my cup of tea, I would actually prefer the aesthetics of the DJ over the Sping Drive line.

[BlueNote]

I own several DJs and one GS Spring Drive SBGE001. Faced with the choice of a DJ or GS Spring Drive at the same cost I would go Spring Drive hands down. Reasons include case fit & finish, hypnotic seconds hand sweep, more unique, under cover luxury watch, next gen watch tech, exceptional accuracy.

Now if the choice was two vintage excellent original condition DJs with dials I wanted to collect for one GS SD I might dance with the Datejusts.

[slcbbrown]

For me, an easy choice-- Rolex. Tons of DJ choices and service anywhere, anytime for the rest of m life.

[osamu]

As much as I would WANT to not take brand recognition or "prestige" into play, if I didn't own any other watches, and only had enough money for a Rolex or a GS, I would be hard pressed not to buy a Rolex, because... "it's a Rolex".

That being said, I am not a big fan of the DJII (as compared to the DJ or DJ41), and the way the GS hands and indices shine is unlike any Rolex. To me I think in general the GS is a much more beautiful watch, and the accuracy of the spring drive, would be awesome for a daily wearer.

Between these two I would probably take a GS, and start saving up for a Sub or some other Rolex if that's an option. If it's going to be a one and only nice watch for the foreseeable future.... maybe I'd go with the DJ.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by SSCosmo

I think it's funny when people point to the bracelets and clasps of Grand Seiko watches as a reason not to buy one. I have two GS watches with bracelets, and never found either of them to be lacking or uncomfortable in any way. Sure, the construction of Rolex bracelets and inclusion of Easylink make them better, but that doesn't mean that GS bracelets and clasps are somehow inadequate or sub par. Rolex probably makes the best bracelets in the industry, regardless of price. GS bracelets may not be as nice, but they are on par with any other watch, particularly in the same price range, like Omega, IWC, etc. So if all one cares about in a watch is the bracelet, they should probably just stick with buying only Rolexes.

IWC bracelets are better than Rolex, so I'm not sure I follow your logic. You can remove links with a toothpick and they have incorporated "glidelock" into a clasp only slightly larger than what GS offers (with zero adjustment). Omega diver bracelets are just as good as Rolex as well - possibly better even.

I like seiko, but their bracelets let down every watch at every single level. They should have stuck with the old GS dials and brought the bracelets up to 2010 standards.

[SSCosmo]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

IWC bracelets are better than Rolex, so I'm not sure I follow your logic. You can remove links with a toothpick and they have incorporated "glidelock" into a clasp only slightly larger than what GS offers (with zero adjustment). Omega diver bracelets are just as good as Rolex as well - possibly better even.

I like seiko, but their bracelets let down every watch at every single level. They should have stuck with the old GS dials and brought the bracelets up to 2010 standards.

Honestly, I never tried on an IWC with bracelet, so I wouldn't know, but you're the first person I've heard say that IWC bracelets are better than modern Rolex bracelets. Not saying you're wrong, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but that really wasn't the point of my post.
My point was that GS bracelets aren't as bad as some make them out to be, and they certainly do not "let down" any GS watch. If you think so, then I think you simply do not truly appreciate the other wonderful aspects of GS watches enough.
Personally, I don't see the logic of dismissing an entire brand of watches solely because the bracelets are not up to the standards of another brand (Rolex, IWC, Omega, or whatever), so long as the bracelet is not uncomfortable or horribly constructed. And even then, you can always switch it out for a strap of your choice. I guess I don't buy watches for the bracelets or straps, but mainly for what they are between the lugs.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by SSCosmo

Honestly, I never tried on an IWC with bracelet, so I wouldn't know, but you're the first person I've heard say that IWC bracelets are better than modern Rolex bracelets. Not saying you're wrong, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but that really wasn't the point of my post.
My point was that GS bracelets aren't as bad as some make them out to be, and they certainly do not "let down" any GS watch. If you think so, then I think you simply do not truly appreciate the other wonderful aspects of GS watches enough.
Personally, I don't see the logic of dismissing an entire brand of watches solely because the bracelets are not up to the standards of another brand (Rolex, IWC, Omega, or whatever), so long as the bracelet is not uncomfortable or horribly constructed. And even then, you can always switch it out for a strap of your choice.

Honestly, the bracelet on the MM300 is pretty uncomfortable with the enormous links and giant clasp. I like seiko. I like grand seiko. That doesn't mean that I'm incapable of acknowledging that the bracelet is the worst aspect of an otherwise superb (in the case of a GS) watch.

Just to put it in perspective: my early 2000's IWCs have a bracelet design that's substantially more expensive to produce and functionally superior to anything seiko produces in 2017. Pick any seiko priced $2,000 and above - the bracelet will be among the worst offered at that price point. The case finishing and dial/hands will be the best though.

[BigAl72]

I wear my MM300 all the time what exactly is uncomfortable about it? I find my 03 bluesy a heck of a lot more uncomfortable with the stamped metal bracelet then my old Omega Seamaster. The Seamaster had a much better bracelet but I've never heard anyone say they'd rather have an old Omega Seamaster over an old Rolex Sub have you?

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[SSCosmo]

I thought we were talking about GS watches and their bracelets? Also, I do wonder what was the last time you tried on a seiko or GS watch and what model? I'm a huge fan of Seiko watches but I own other brands and also readily recognize areas they could improve (e.g., thickness of their watches, better brand building, and yes, even better bracelets), but I just don't really get where your extremely negative impression of Seiko bracelets comes from. I have a $500 seiko turtle on bracelet and it's not the most comfortable, but it is certainly comfortable enough and very well built, especially for the price.

[regnant]

I would go for Rolex