Is the Patek Philippe Nautilus overpriced relative to peers?

[kingofthehill]

Friends,

I am interested in your opinions on whether the steel variant of the Patek Philippe Nautilus is overpriced relative to its peers from the equivalently perceived, skilled and reputed manufactures Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin.

Patek Philippe Nautilus
5711/1A |$24,800

Audemars Piguet Royal Oak
15400ST | $17,800; 28.2% cheaper relative to Patek Philippe equivalent

Vacheron Constantin Overseas
4500V/110A | $19,900; 19.8% cheaper relative to Patek Philippe equivalent

The pricing gap between Patek Philippe's Nautilus and the Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin equivalents is starker still when one considers the discounts available on pieces from the latter two, where none is generally available on the former.

Whilst I note that one reason behind the elevated pricing is that Patek Philippe are able to enjoy strong demand and extended waiting lists at this price level - where their peers do not to the same extent and their lower pricing points - I would welcome your further thoughts on rationale that justifies the premium Patek Philippe charges, particularly from the point of view of collectors and WIS.

Thank you!

[RussW]

If comparing to AP it needs to be the 15202.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Is the Patek Philippe Nautilus overpriced relative to peers?

!

No.
It's just the price.
You either buy it or you don't.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by RussW

If comparing to AP it needs to be the 15202.

Thank you.

I don't understand why that would be the case; the 15400ST has the same functions (time, seconds and date), has some 'reasonable' water resistance (50m), comparable quality of finishing and assembly and a broadly similar case and movement thickness to the 5711 - though the 15202 is of course closer still in that respect. What are your thoughts?

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by subtona

No.
It's just the price.
You either buy it or you don't.

Whilst de facto the case, it does not negate any relative value proposition, of course.

[Busyboy]

Originally Posted by RussW

If comparing to AP it needs to be the 15202.

Absolutely

[RussW]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Thank you.

I don't understand why that would be the case; the 15400ST has the same functions (time, seconds and date), has some 'reasonable' water resistance (50m), comparable quality of finishing and assembly and a broadly similar case and movement thickness to the 5711 - though the 15202 is of course closer still in that respect. What are your thoughts?

The 15202 is more expensive than the 15400 and is closer to the 5711 overall in terms of movement quality. It's a more like for like comparison comparing the 15202 to the 5711. Using your own question, is the 15202 overpriced compared to the 15400?

[cmcm3]

At this level of timepiece, brand is a huge factor and the reality is the Patek is a level above in brand value, regardless of the inherent value in the timepieces in question. You may also want to consider value retention when considering "value", in which the Nautilus gives the other two a solid spanking as well.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Whilst de facto the case, it does not negate any relative value proposition, of course.

Sorry I don't speak jive.

Agree w others comparison is more direct between 5711 & 15202.

[Hollister]

https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa....OO.1240ST.01/

I love this, and would choose it over a 5711.

[martinr]

It's underpriced, the others sit if not discounted and the 5711 flys off grey dealer sites at above retail. Is a steak overpriced relative to a hamburger?

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by martinr

It's underpriced, the others sit if not discounted and the 5711 flys off grey dealer sites at above retail. Is a steak overpriced relative to a hamburger?

Misleading comparison, it's brand, hype and fashion. It's no better than the AP.

[Peterandwatches]

You could compare the 5711 to a 5167 on bracelet to highlight your point further.

[Hramez]

Originally Posted by cmcm3

At this level of timepiece, brand is a huge factor and the reality is the Patek is a level above in brand value, regardless of the inherent value in the timepieces in question. You may also want to consider value retention when considering "value", in which the Nautilus gives the other two a solid spanking as well.

I totally agree

[HorologyK]

Define overpriced


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Racerdj]

Not overpriced, my opinion!

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by RussW

The 15202 is more expensive than the 15400 and is closer to the 5711 overall in terms of movement quality. It's a more like for like comparison comparing the 15202 to the 5711. Using your own question, is the 15202 overpriced compared to the 15400?

Thank you. In my personal opinion, I do think that the 15202-premium over the 15400 is hard to justify in practice - though I do appreciate that others may and do have different views and preferences. With that said, I do not necessarily know what makes the calibre 2121 of the 15202 materially superior to the calibre 3120 in the 15400 - or, for that matter, what marks out the calibre 324 S C in the 5711 from either of the AP movements. I would be interested in learning more and, if you have any, being pointed to any pieces on this matter.

[Vipes]

Yes, it's overpriced but so is the AP and VC. Compared to the AP 15202, I think they are both pretty equal in terms of fit and finish. Now the 5711 is a better value if you can get it at retail.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by Peterandwatches

You could compare the 5711 to a 5167 on bracelet to highlight your point further.

Thank you; that is an interesting point! The 5167/1A is $21,900.

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

I do not necessarily know what makes the calibre 2121 of the 15202 materially superior to the calibre 3120 in the 15400 - or, for that matter, what marks out the calibre 324 S C in the 5711 from either of the AP movements.

The older I get, the less and less I'm liking watches with centre seconds. Small seconds or no seconds makes the watch more legible at a glance. Who really needs a huge seconds display? No-one.

For that reason alone, I'll take the 15202 over the PP or the other RO.

[vipereaper30]

If you are concerned about the cost then it is overpriced. Maybe not for others though...how badly do you want one?

[GoingPlaces]

Marketwise, I find the 5711 priced where it should be compared to others. Personally, it does nothing for me unless in a PM. I would take the 15202 all day over it.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Thank you. In my personal opinion, I do think that the 15202-premium over the 15400 is hard to justify in practice - though I do appreciate that others may and do have different views and preferences. With that said, I do not necessarily know what makes the calibre 2121 of the 15202 materially superior to the calibre 3120 in the 15400 - or, for that matter, what marks out the calibre 324 S C in the 5711 from either of the AP movements. I would be interested in learning more and, if you have any, being pointed to any pieces on this matter.

A couple of online comparisons you may be interested in:

https://www.fratellowatches.com/frat...yal-oak-15202/

http://timetapestry.blogspot.co.uk/2...bo-vs.html?m=1

Also worth mentioning is that until recently the 15202 had a monocoque case, which was a plus for the 15202 imo. Sadly this is no longer the case.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by Hollister

The older I get, the less and less I'm liking watches with centre seconds. Small seconds or no seconds makes the watch more legible at a glance. Who really needs a huge seconds display? No-one.

For that reason alone, I'll take the 15202 over the PP or the other RO.

Try changing the date when off the wrist for a few days and report back

[Helmi]

I think it is over priced for a simple watch but they succeeded to make it very desirable up to the level that some people pay 35k for them.

Also, isn't the 5711 retail price 21.9 k?

[HL65]

Originally Posted by ap1

Try changing the date when off the wrist for a few days and report back

Very easy to do. So you move hands back to 10:00 then to 2:00 etc etc. Now if you had to actually rotate twice past 12:00 that would be a pain! So for what you get in an amazing watch a small amount of extra work is well worth it IMHO.

[AK797]

It's highly priced which reflects Patek's brand cache, but it is decidedly not overpriced as used pieces sell at small premiums in some countries and large ones in mine.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by Helmi

I think it is over priced for a simple watch but they succeeded to make it very desirable up to the level that some people pay 35k for them.

Also, isn't the 5711 retail price 21.9 k?

The 5711/1A price varies depending on what part of the world you are in. US retail price is higher than most other developed nations. US price is $24.8K USD, Swiss price is 21.9K CHF.

Going back to OP's question, the concept of something being over-priced vs a good value is in the eye of the beholder. To most of the world, a watch more than $200 USD is over-priced. The number of people spending over $20K USD for a watch is very, very small. I would say all Patek watches are over-priced.

[GB-man]

Without question in my humble opinion and having owned one.

(At market 100%)

(At retail 20%)

Editing for a third time because those numbers don't add up lol but you get my point hopefully

[mobster600]

The premium you pay if you want a PP is steep. At the price of a Nautilus there are many cool other watches for the money. It's just how it is.....just like any other expensive good.