Is the Patek Philippe Nautilus overpriced relative to peers?

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by Helmi

I think it is over priced for a simple watch but they succeeded to make it very desirable up to the level that some people pay 35k for them.

Also, isn't the 5711 retail price 21.9 k?

There was a HK Christies Auction I believe where a 5711/1A Blue went for around $35k and a 5711/1A Blue Tiffany went for $48k. Ludacris. But if you got the money, then it ain't a problem.

[lapince]

You can't compare the 5711 to the 15400, you need to compare it to the 15202, and then the PP is a little more but not so much, just it keeps it's price greatly, even faining, while the AP is keeping nicely but you should loose a little. So no it's not overpriced IMO, if you buy for retail, buy on grey market and yeah it's overpriced

[Tony@KopiGau]

If you were an AD you would probably think it is way underpriced due to high demand and very limited supply. If u are lucky to get one new piece you should be happy to justify the price you pay for. PP is happy to maintain it this way so 5711 continues to be the basecamp and talking point of the whole legendary Nautilus line.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by HL65

Very easy to do. So you move hands back to 10:00 then to 2:00 etc etc. Now if you had to actually rotate twice past 12:00 that would be a pain! So for what you get in an amazing watch a small amount of extra work is well worth it IMHO.

I flipped my jumbo and while the date change wasn't as quick as I would have liked that wasn't the reason I moved it on. The charm of this method did wear off rather quickly for me though

[mps354]

I think at that price it comes down to personal preference, not a few thousand dollars give or take. Given the strong demand, lack of discounts pre-owned, etc., the market doesn't think the 5711 is overpriced. I really like the 15202, but I much prefer my 5711

[DR.Golf]

Late to the discusssion but, here goes.......

Patek, love them or hate them is at the head of the table. Patek does whatever they want without any concern about other watchmakers, there exists no reason for them to do so. AP is going to price their pieces relative to Patek. Do you believe AP would launch any new watch which would compete directly without first considering how it compares to Patek in every way including price? No way. Would Patek check to see what AP is doing? You get the point. Patek does what Patek wants, no apologies.

As proof I could go on for hours but here is a couple of examples of how Patek does what they want when they want to do it, AND get away with it.
How many steel three hand watches manufactured for more than 10 years sell for 25% over MSRP? How much of a surcharge do you pay for the same watch in Platinum? Seriously $75,000 plus! 5524 sells for as much as $10k over, and it' still in production. Why, because Thierry Stern decides he is going to prove a point after people bash it at launch. Even the IMO ugly little Aquanaut on a rubber band can't be had easily and you pay close to retail. Preowned you are likely paying more than dealer cost when new. Try to sell your preowned VC and you will find out about value retention.

Sorry guys VC is dead. There is no way to force the issue beyond the fact they are dead, - it's now just a brand owned by a conglomerate, no longer an independent. VC doesn't belong in this discussion. Their new designs are now awful. They will simply follow the dregs of the industry over at Richmont, Swatch etc. Stick with the true watchmakers - Patek, AP, RM, Journe.

[GB-man]

Patek is merely cutting production. If the 5524 was readily available it wouldn't be selling over list. Ditto 5711 etc

I think it's a good move for the record.

I completely disagree regarding Vacheron but that's not worth arguing here.

[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by DR.Golf

Late to the discusssion but, here goes.......

Patek, love them or hate them is at the head of the table. Patek does whatever they want without any concern about other watchmakers, there exists no reason for them to do so. AP is going to price their pieces relative to Patek. Do you believe AP would launch any new watch which would compete directly without first considering how it compares to Patek in every way including price? No way. Would Patek check to see what AP is doing? You get the point. Patek does what Patek wants, no apologies.

As proof I could go on for hours but here is a couple of examples of how Patek does what they want when they want to do it, AND get away with it.
How many steel three hand watches manufactured for more than 10 years sell for 25% over MSRP? How much of a surcharge do you pay for the same watch in Platinum? Seriously $75,000 plus! 5524 sells for as much as $10k over, and it' still in production. Why, because Thierry Stern decides he is going to prove a point after people bash it at launch. Even the IMO ugly little Aquanaut on a rubber band can't be had easily and you pay close to retail. Preowned you are likely paying more than dealer cost when new. Try to sell your preowned VC and you will find out about value retention.

Sorry guys VC is dead. There is no way to force the issue beyond the fact they are dead, - it's now just a brand owned by a conglomerate, no longer an independent. VC doesn't belong in this discussion. Their new designs are now awful. They will simply follow the dregs of the industry over at Richmont, Swatch etc. Stick with the true watchmakers - Patek, AP, RM, Journe.

I guess you hate Rolex also.

[alexlt730512]

Originally Posted by lapince

You can't compare the 5711 to the 15400, you need to compare it to the 15202, and then the PP is a little more but not so much, just it keeps it's price greatly, even faining, while the AP is keeping nicely but you should loose a little. So no it's not overpriced IMO, if you buy for retail, buy on grey market and yeah it's overpriced

having owned both brands, I think the finished on the movement is very different and if you take a loupe looking closely, then you will know the winner is Patek not AP.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by HorologyK

I guess you hate Rolex also.

I believe Rolex will be included in his list as it is also an independent and value retention is one of if not the best in the industry.


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[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by DR.Golf

Late to the discusssion but, here goes.......

Patek, love them or hate them is at the head of the table. Patek does whatever they want without any concern about other watchmakers, there exists no reason for them to do so. AP is going to price their pieces relative to Patek. Do you believe AP would launch any new watch which would compete directly without first considering how it compares to Patek in every way including price? No way. Would Patek check to see what AP is doing? You get the point. Patek does what Patek wants, no apologies.

As proof I could go on for hours but here is a couple of examples of how Patek does what they want when they want to do it, AND get away with it.
How many steel three hand watches manufactured for more than 10 years sell for 25% over MSRP? How much of a surcharge do you pay for the same watch in Platinum? Seriously $75,000 plus! 5524 sells for as much as $10k over, and it' still in production. Why, because Thierry Stern decides he is going to prove a point after people bash it at launch. Even the IMO ugly little Aquanaut on a rubber band can't be had easily and you pay close to retail. Preowned you are likely paying more than dealer cost when new. Try to sell your preowned VC and you will find out about value retention.

Sorry guys VC is dead. There is no way to force the issue beyond the fact they are dead, - it's now just a brand owned by a conglomerate, no longer an independent. VC doesn't belong in this discussion. Their new designs are now awful. They will simply follow the dregs of the industry over at Richmont, Swatch etc. Stick with the true watchmakers - Patek, AP, RM, Journe.

A. Lange & Söhne is also owned by Richmont, I guess add them to the awful column as well. One could argue that A. Lange & Söhne is on par or above Patek & AP, in the same category as RM & Journe, in production numbers as well as value retention.

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

I believe Rolex will be included in his list as it is also an independent and value retention is one of if not the best in the industry.


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Of course, Rolex is the best brand in the world. Other watch brands are complete rubbish compared to Rolex. Just look at how many people wear a Rolex! How many people wear a Patek, AP, RM, Journe? Those watches you never see, therefore value retention is horrible. Hell Roger Federer wears a Rolex and so does Tiger Woods. That's how you know it's the best watch brand in the world.

[Calatrava r]

I am curious what a 5711 Blue dial would sell for used if they were readily available new at retail. The current aftermarket value we see in large part reflects the fact they are simply not available new. My guess is they would take a 20 percent hit or more. Why buy used, if something can be had new, unless you get a discount on the used item. Value retention is really a matter of supply and demand.

[Calatrava r]

[QUOTE=Defiancekofb;7706749]A. Lange & Söhne is also owned by Richmont, I guess add them to the awful column as well. One could argue that A. Lange & Söhne is on par or above Patek & AP, in the same category as RM & Journe, in production numbers as well as value retention.

I think Lange has gone down the same road as VC. When these companies sell out to big the conglomerates, the magic seems to evaporate and it shows up in very weak after market sales prices.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

I am curious what a 5711 Blue dial would sell for used if they were readily available new at retail. The current aftermarket value we see in large part reflects the fact they are simply not available new. My guess is they would take a 20 percent hit or more. Why buy used, if something can be had new, unless you get a discount on the used item. Value retention is really a matter of supply and demand.

If they were readily available half the purchasers wouldn't be interested!!!! Half the attraction to many is the fact that it's scarce rather than the merits of the watch

[kingofthehill]

Thank you for all of your comments and votes; it's clear from the poll that the group is split right down the middle on this matter!

[ezinhk]

Is Hermes birkin overpriced relative to peers? They are hard to find, just like Nautilus yet 15400 is available everywhere & discounts can be offered.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

Of course, Rolex is the best brand in the world. Other watch brands are complete rubbish compared to Rolex. Just look at how many people wear a Rolex! How many people wear a Patek, AP, RM, Journe? Those watches you never see, therefore value retention is horrible. Hell Roger Federer wears a Rolex and so does Tiger Woods. That's how you know it's the best watch brand in the world.

Originally Posted by ezinhk

Is Hermes birkin overpriced relative to peers? They are hard to find, just like Nautilus yet 15400 is available everywhere & discounts can be offered.

Good comparison

[yessir69]

Originally Posted by alexlt730512

having owned both brands, I think the finished on the movement is very different and if you take a loupe looking closely, then you will know the winner is Patek not AP.

Having owned both the 5711 and 15202, I feel exactly the opposite.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by ezinhk

Is Hermes birkin overpriced relative to peers? They are hard to find, just like Nautilus yet 15400 is available everywhere & discounts can be offered.

Not really, it's more like 5711 Nautilus compared to a 15202 AP with the JLC movement. 15202 is not as rare as a 5711 but it does take a few months to acquire one from the AD. So it is like more of a direct comparison.

[Ba Ba]

When I first bought the 3710 16 years ago, everyone thinks it is overpriced, ugly with a weird looking case and most of my friends rather spend the money on Frank Muller, Panerai or Cartier... I am the odd ball who happened to like the nautilus case. To me a Panerai 127 with ETA movement and claimed itself a limited edition (1950pcs!) is definitely overpriced but not the Nautilus!! Just my two cents

[JorgeCCW]

of course is overpriced is a patek and this particular model is maybe a little more overpriced due to the low production and high demand

[lapince]

Originally Posted by yessir69

Having owned both the 5711 and 15202, I feel exactly the opposite.

Not sure as I haven't looked at either of my 3120's or either of my 324´s with loupe, not even once, but it seems to me that AP puts more finishing time and effort on the 15202 than on the regular 3120 movements, maybe he was talking about a 3120 vs 324, when I look without loupe both look perfectly finished, but with any magnification, the result might not be the same, so I don't look at them with loupes, the only one which will have this privilege will be the Voutilainen, on that one I will magnify surely a few times

[perpetualman88]

Originally Posted by RussW

If comparing to AP it needs to be the 15202.

agreed

[adnjoo]

overpriced, but worth it. since after you die and pass it on to your spoiled children or grandchildren they will be like 'o m g my dad /grand-dad left me a patek nautilus..'

I don't think you will get the same response with a laureato or a ingenieur..

The only thing cooler would have been a 3700 with the cork box.

[Watch Admirer]

It's all about the brand name, history and appeal to the customer. At a high level, all brands are more or less the same when it comes to finish and movements. As said above, it's the customers who drive the pricing of goods.

[philster]

Are these prices the most current - I thought the MSRP for the 5990/1a-001 is $57,300

Originally Posted by Helmi

I think it is over priced for a simple watch but they succeeded to make it very desirable up to the level that some people pay 35k for them.

Also, isn't the 5711 retail price 21.9 k?

[ezinhk]

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

Not really, it's more like 5711 Nautilus compared to a 15202 AP with the JLC movement. 15202 is not as rare as a 5711 but it does take a few months to acquire one from the AD. So it is like more of a direct comparison.

15202 are currently available at every flagship store in HK. Good luck finding a 5711 blue anywhere in the world (flippers excluded).

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by ezinhk

15202 are currently available at every flagship store in HK. Good luck finding a 5711 blue anywhere in the world (flippers excluded).

Yeah well you did say 15400 first, 15400 can be found at basically any AD within a few weeks if they don't have a specific color you want. 15202 is rarer than a 15400, that's my point. Apples to Apples. Also price range wise the 15202 is similar to the 5711.

Trust me I know agonizing pain of the wait list of a 5711 blue, I have a 50% down payment at my AD for guaranteed delivery early next year.

[beshannon]

They are all overpriced.

This is not about what I paid it is about what I want.

[dom007]

I don't know any peers...