Sensitive subject.. (divorce?)

[THC]

Many many great replies / advice, thanks everyone. Not sure what we are going to do yet, but the talks are on going. I try, most of the times, to simply say ok to whatever topic so as to not make a silly argument worse.

[1William]

Because you asked, I will attempt a response. You know what is happening and where you want to be. Figure out what is causing the issues, some will be her and some will be you, and talk and stop the behavior. If it continues then you need to go. Life is too short to argue all the time and have difficulties with the person you are suppose to love. I have been with my wife for 28 years and can tell you that if anything ever happened I would never remarry. Marriage is tough, even with someone you really love. Over time the luster goes away and you are left each other. That is what they mean for better or worse. I hope you work through this and end up with what is beat for you and your family.

[brandrea]

I’m truly hoping for the best outcome for you and your wife Tom.

You’ve already received some great replies here.

[THC]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’m truly hoping for the best outcome for you and your wife Tom.

You’ve already received some great replies here.

Thanks William and thank you Brian

[Rock]

Pretty much every long-term relationship I have ever seen has a dominant party.
My observation is that these relationships work better than ones where you have two parties who are both potentially dominant and seem to be forever vying for that dominance. Asserting themselves, if you like.
Sometimes harmony is about being willing to just agree, or see a different perspective rather than 'fight every point'.
I and my wife of 38 years share few interests and disagree on about 50% of things but we love and respect each other and that seems to make it easier to agree to disagree.
I see some people who last about a decade per relationship and just move easily on to the next. I haven't got the energy to want to keep forging new relationships (and halving my wealth every time)
Better to try to find out where the friction comes from and do something about it.

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Are you fed up with the constant rowing over minuscule matters?
You’ve done counselling, so she’s aware of how you feel and knows there is a problem, but refuses to accept it needs resolving?
Has she checked with her MD if it’s just a hormonal thing that HRT could be prescribed or tweaked (if she can take or is already on it)?
Does she see the rows as a problem or simply a part of being older and less compromising?
Have you told her it’s getting to you and you’ve been thinking that maybe it's time to call it quits?
Would you prefer to be on your own, doing your own thing, or is the companionship something that’s keeping you from going solo?
Can you go somewhere for a short while (without raising any suspicion), and then see if things change upon returning or is exactly the same as it is now?

These are good questions. As we get older, body chemistry changes. That effects all kinds of things. It’s worth a conversation with a doctor.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by THC

When couples are later in years and they argue every day, about everything, every day, when does one call time of death on a marriage?
Neither one of us are bad people, we both love each other’s kids. Fidelity is not an issue. She has grandkids that I adore, and she is great with my adult children. We both make a comfortable living and we got married 12 years ago, but have no kids together, biologically.

Counseling has been tried, please know, not looking for any wanderlust or mid life crisis, but just want a simple easy life with zero drama.

Cannot hurt to get advice from total strangers, right?

Thanks TRF family

Sorry to hear, hope you can reach a resolution.

I can only relate a recent story, I was talking to someone I met who sounded like you.

Bottomline, they split, happily I might add and they accepted that they needed to move on with their lives and according to this person, they are both happier and still friends.

[Syed117]

I don't think anyone wants to hear this, but you may just be happier on your own.

My parents divorced after 25 years and it absolutely crushed my dad. He was depressed for a long time, but I tell him on a regular basis that he's better off this way. He's happier overall and he doesn't have the stress of constant arguments.

People grow apart and sometimes you end up going in different directions because you're not the same people you were when you got married.

[Blansky]

I've never been of the opinion that marriages take work, I believe they take fun. Go do fun stuff together.

I see people on vacations that argue with each other, I think they're doomed as a couple.

If it's work, then you may be with the wrong person.

That doesn't mean there isn't give and take in a relationship and you have discussions, but if it's a constant struggle, time to move on.

Of course I see many men who never grew up and think that their time off is time with the guys, and that they deserve it after working all week. They don't help with daily chores and basically want to live with their mother with benefits. They didn't realize marriage was an equal partnership with lots of chores. This drives women crazy and this relationship is doomed.

Way back I photographed over 500 weddings and I could tell which ones would probably last just by the behavior during my discussions and watching the dynamic at the wedding and in most cases it was immature males. Our society has no rites of passage for boys transition to men, and an awful lot of "men" are still just boys.

Good luck in your decision.

From Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.... this advice was very astute.....when women want to discuss things, men who are problem solvers generally, will ALWAYS give advice. But women don't want advice, they merely want you to listen.

[Watchflair]

Originally Posted by subtona

the most significant thing I have identified is this,

Are you still communicating? If either of you has gotten to the point of disregard for the others feelings or opinions then in my experience this is the point of no return.

If you are not there then options are still available, one of which could be time away to reflect on what it is that is missing and what is important and hopefully how to prioritize those things together.

Never easy but time is known to heal.

Great advice ~

I wish you luck. Communication is the key. Expressing ones feelings and an acknowledgement of them by the other party is where it all starts.

If the lines of communication are open - keep them open and work towards a mutual understanding on each others needs.

Life is too short to argue every day about everything. Why is that happening? Does she acknowledge it? Does she address it?

Are you part of the problem? Anything you can do to minimize the arguing?

Besides counseling are you doing everything possible on your end to calm the storm? Do you both pick and choose your battles?

[Dr. Robert]

Marriage is not for me.....twice married, twice divorced.
Now I think of what Oscar Wilde said.......1st marriage...triumph of imagination over intelligence. 2nd marriage triumph of hope over experience.

[droptopman]

Sorry to hear this Tom. Sounds like you are being proactive--counseling, talking about it, seeking advice. Sometimes when relationships mature there is a never ending "score keeping" process that leads to arguments, and a strong need to be right. Sometimes this kills relationships, other times if both parties are able to look at "their" part of the problem and seek personal growth, the relationship can grow and be repaired. Must eliminate score keeping and being right for both parties. Impossible to know where both of you are and what you are willing to do. Writing out a list of strengths and weaknesses is a healthy process and might produce results.

Good luck and I hope the best for both of you.

[THC]

Sincere thanks, as all these replies are very intelligent and well reasoned.. much to ponder ///

[Chester01]

Sorry to hear that. I work with many folks, married 25, 50, even 75 years for one couple I worked with. And what seems to lead to the conflict in many instances is not enough shared experiences, activities, hobbies etc...anymore. This gets exacerbated by retirement when folks stop working and stop having a sense of meaning, and then are basically together all the time.

Now, there is person a, person b, and the relationship. Even if couples counseling was not helpful, a course of personal psychotherapy to help your clarify, sort these things out may be something to consider. It’s important to have that insight into ourselves as that will follow you into the next relationship.

[Urosfan]

I don’t have an answer for you, but I’m wishing you the best whatever you decide

[eltonbalch]

Well, the sad truth is that approximately 50% of all marriages end in divorce. Assuming a true bell curve, the remaining group 50% of them likely aren’t happy and would like to separate/divorce. That leaves 25% of all marriages ranging from “perfect” to “OK”. Truly “happy” marriages are very few. My first marriage was a slow motion disaster lasting almost 25 years until ending in an acrimonious divorce. Blame was equal on both sides; lack of honest communication, ignoring small issues, and general malaise because daily life (jobs, kids, money, etc) became the ongoing focus. I don’t know if you are at a point where it’s too late to salvage in a meaningful way (we were), but honest counseling and professional help can really assist in making that determination and moving on in a way that’s constructive for both parties. It’s like those end of year work reviews where your boss tells you that you haven’t been doing the crackerjack job you thought you were. It’s hard and requires a level of honesty and soul searching you might not be prepared for.

Good luck; trust me, I feel for you.

[timedate]

i remember my mother saying to me that 'your father should never have got married' meaning he was lazy and immature, she was right, but by the same token after having watched her antics, she should not have got married either, but i am glad they did as i would not be here.

[Romeojk]

I’ve been married 31 years and marriage is no picnic. It’s a lot of work. We’ve had our ups and downs and have thought about divorce quite often during this down times. I am glad I rode out those down times because right now things are pretty good (but who knows about the future : )

My advice, stop feeding into the arguments and look at yourself and why you feel the need to be right or to win. It takes two to argue. And by the way, I am sure she doesn’t want to argue any more than you do.

I was having work issues as well and arguing a bit. I read Dale Carnegie’s book ‘How to Win Friends and Influence People’. I actually listened to it on audio. I took what I learned from it and used it in my marriage and think it really helped.

Things like, why you always think what you have to say is more important than the other person? Do you hear what they are really saying or only listening so you can get your turn to give your two cents.

Anyway, the more I fixed myself the more things got better for both of us.

Most definitely time apart it good too. For two years (a few years back) my wife stayed at her mothers during the week and came home on weekends. It was a nice break and it helped us to miss and appreciate each other more.

Even this past winter I stayed out back a lot in the cottage/garage thing we have. And it wasn’t because of fighting, it just worked out that way.

Men and women are different and have different priorities and ways about us. It’s kind of surprising how we put up with each other for as long as we do.

Kids: we used to fight about raising our daughter but she’s been on her own for almost 6yrs now...and we only argue a little about her : )

I would say my wife would keeps arguments going and needs the last word. I gave up fighting for the last word after year 5, I think. And I forget every argument 10mins after it’s over. I let everything go and refuse to argue about it later, she can win every time, I always seem to get the do what I want when I want and get to buy what I want as well.

Happy wife, happy life.

Good luck, what a crazy adventure life is!


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[andyxxx]

Some couples argue all day and it doesn’t bother them – they almost seem to thrive on it.

You don’t say if it is making you unhappy. If it is, and you have tried to resolve issues it may be time to call it a day.

As you say no other parties are involved, I would suggest separating and after a month start dating her again – you may re-kindle your romance.

It does not matter how old you are – you must enjoy as much of the rest of your life as possible. Good luck

[Tonks]

Buy and read Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson. Pay attention to what she says about the pursuer/distancer dialogue.

You say you’ve done counseling—has it been with only one counselor? What treatment modality was she using? Therapists are like shoes. The first one you try may not be a good fit, and that can be super painful, especially when you have invested time, trust, and money. Consider trying another. Sue Johnson (author of above book) practices Emotionally Focused therapy (EFT). There are many EFT practitioners around and you can probably find one in your area.

I’m a big fan of that modality because it teaches you to recognize the argument as the enemy, not each other. It also teaches you about the cycle that your relationship tends to fal into and how to recognize it and avoid it.

It sounds like you may have some pursuer/distancer cycle going on, where your wife is pursuing your attention (albeit in ways that sound nagging or critical). This makes you want to withdraw. This may be your cycle.

[gabrielnovar]

open relationship ftw.. don't care if my girl cheats or sleeps around

because I am doing the same lol Marriage is legally to messy. better off staying single these days.

tax advantages not worth it unless you are struggling for money

[stockae92]

Expectation and willingness to make the other person.

If you expect "A" to happen, but the other person wants "B" and is not willing to compromise every time, then I think that's the end of road and no therapy would help. I think therapy would help understand why (the problem exists), but nothing would change for better if one side of the party is not willing change.

Marriage is a lot of work, but it cannot be nothing but work, (and/or) can't be just work for one side but none for the other. The ideal situation would be both side works to make the other side happy, and knows what works and what doesn't work. Then everybody would be happy. Some one putting in a lot of work in the wrong direction doesn't do anybody good neither.

I guess ask yourself the question: Do you or her care(s) any more? If either side has no as an answer, then its done, there's nothing can be "fixed", cause there is nothing left to be fixed.

Good luck.

[timedate]

statistically, married women live a lot longer than married men, i wonder why that is.

if i am wrong, please correct me.

[Mr.Rolex1]

Originally Posted by timedate

statistically, married women live a lot longer than married men, i wonder why that is.

if i am wrong, please correct me.

I like all your comments but this is just golden

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by timedate

statistically, married women live a lot longer than married men, i wonder why that is.

if i am wrong, please correct me.

I know so so many widows in Florida who have been widows for many many years.

[Blansky]

Married men live longer than single men.

Single women live longer than married women

[Investr]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Can’t say I have an answer tom but wishing you all the best and happier days ahead

well said! wishing you the best sir

[FTX I]

It depends on how much YOU want to be with her Tom. Be honest with yourself. If the answer is positive, stop doing what's making her sad and angry, be sincere with her and I'm sure she'll realize you're trying hard and she'll probably do the same. You need to decide what you really want my friend. Just my humble opinion. Good luck.

[coolhomelife]

Sometimes it's just a stressful phase in yours or your spouse's life which has nothing to do with him/her. I see myself blowing my top and getting triggered much more often when I'm working too hard at work and I realised I was getting mad at people for over small little things. If this is you or your spouse, maybe take some time off and chill out before making this decision?

[Laszlo]

Been there, done that, I think I'm about to start number 3. It'll make you broke!