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Old 22 May 2019, 12:54 AM   #31
droptopman
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The market has changed, the forum has changed. I agree I get sick of the complaining and also all the "valuation" type threads. I am just not spending as much time here as I used to. The market situation has me bored...

I will say...I did not hear much complaining back in the day when I could send an email for an SS model and have it delivered next day for a discount on just about any model. The TS or Greys were loved back then. My guess is that the margins have not changed that much. I would speculate they are paying more on the front end and selling for more on the back.
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Old 22 May 2019, 07:28 AM   #32
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Cool it. I was quoting two words in your heading that displayed a superior attitude. Nothing to do with grammar.
I didn’t get that from your post either Adam. Just a comment about the use of those two words in the subject.

Emotions certainly are running high here lately!
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Old 22 May 2019, 06:10 PM   #33
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I often wonder what the old school members would think of the Rolex situation now?

Would love to have heard JJ’s thoughts (RIP fella).


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Old 22 May 2019, 06:30 PM   #34
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that is interesting. i did not even realize someone was making a comment on grammar.

in fact, the comment i made agreeing with someone on a comma, i thought was made in jest based on seriousness of the topic. i had thought "you people" was referring to much more serious connotation from the past.
Sorry, yeah, that was just a lame joke. My dad, the Homework Czar, would confirm I don't know a misplaced comma from a semicolon.
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Old 22 May 2019, 08:34 PM   #35
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Sorry, yeah, that was just a lame joke. My dad, the Homework Czar, would confirm I don't know a misplaced comma from a semicolon.
That’s what I figured. Just a joke.
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Old 22 May 2019, 08:46 PM   #36
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Well put.

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Old 22 May 2019, 10:45 PM   #37
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Hey, no one is complaining about grays when they pick up another brand brand new at 20-30% OFF list price, correct? I bought a IWC a few years ago new for less than I could find one used.


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Old 23 May 2019, 12:21 AM   #38
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Everyone hates the Greys until they want a hassle free trade to a desired model of the latest unobtanium.
Of course a few years ago everyone loved the greys and their great discounts.
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Old 23 May 2019, 01:08 AM   #39
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I tend to agree. The prices are going to be raised because there are new threats from smartwatches. Rolex went up market during quartz and is going to again to defend itself. I can imagine that the MSRP will start to jump to match or be more inline with Greys which will take a bit of the bite out of the grey and secondary market but allow more to buy from ADs.
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Old 23 May 2019, 01:09 AM   #40
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I'm loving it, my watch portfolio has gone thru the roof! Maybe I can buy the rest of the house now...
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Old 23 May 2019, 02:15 AM   #41
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Greys offer a valuable service. They will buy/trade current watches at fair market value with 100% peace of mind and very easy transaction and they will sell you hard to find pieces same day at fair market value.

Go into an AD that will take trades and I've always been extremely low balled on trade ins. They also want to bundle just for the chance to be on a wait list or maybe get the piece I want. If I want a watch and want it now I have to find enough value in the watch to pay current market prices. If I don't find enough value then I don't buy it.
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Old 23 May 2019, 03:14 AM   #42
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Speaking as a pedant, in the Queen's English you can put the period outside the quotation mark
Really!? I didn’t know that. As an American I specifically remember it being the opposite. But, what the hell, we took the language from you Brits so I guess you can have the final say on the rules.
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Old 23 May 2019, 03:20 AM   #43
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Personally, if Tony or David or any other reputable gray seller can get someone to pay $50,000 for a $9,000 MSRP watch, more power to them.

This is a Rolex watch, not life-saving medicine, if the buyer feels the price is too high, they don’t buy it; simple.
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Old 23 May 2019, 03:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
Personally, if Tony or David or any other reputable gray seller can get someone to pay $50,000 for a $9,000 MSRP watch, more power to them.

This is a Rolex watch, not life-saving medicine, if the buyer feels the price is too high, they don’t buy it; simple.
"well said."
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Old 23 May 2019, 04:10 AM   #45
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Personally, if Tony or David or any other reputable gray seller can get someone to pay $50,000 for a $9,000 MSRP watch, more power to them.

This is a Rolex watch, not life-saving medicine, if the buyer feels the price is too high, they don’t buy it; simple.
spot on

If people don't pay those prices then they will come back down. Greys have to unload them at some point. The greys are also taking a risk buying at a premium and being stuck holding pieces they overpaid for if there is a bubble that bursts. The collector not so much since it a luxury item...to a grey its inventory to their business that they could take a loss on.
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Old 23 May 2019, 04:55 AM   #46
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Everything in life these days seems to revolve around money, wealth and greed!
These days? Lol, welcome to human nature.
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Old 23 May 2019, 06:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
Personally, if Tony or David or any other reputable gray seller can get someone to pay $50,000 for a $9,000 MSRP watch, more power to them.

This is a Rolex watch, not life-saving medicine, if the buyer feels the price is too high, they don’t buy it; simple.
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Old 23 May 2019, 08:17 AM   #48
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Economics Basics: Supply and Demand

If you want something that is in limited supply or that is in high demand by others You Must Pay the Price! If you can't afford it then there is no reason for you to complain as that will NOT change the Price.

Supply and demand is perhaps one of the most fundamental concepts of economics and it is the backbone of a market economy. Demand refers to how much (quantity) of a product or service is desired by buyers. The quantity demanded is the amount of a product people are willing to buy at a certain price; the relationship between price and quantity demanded is known as the demand relationship. Supply represents how much the market can offer. The quantity supplied refers to the amount of a certain good producers are willing to supply when receiving a certain price. The correlation between price and how much of a good or service is supplied to the market is known as the supply relationship. Price, therefore, is a reflection of supply and demand.

The relationship between demand and supply underlie the forces behind the allocation of resources. In market economy theories, demand and supply theory will allocate resources in the most efficient way possible.
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Old 23 May 2019, 08:27 AM   #49
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It’s not an isolated issue that applies just to grey dealers.
Those willing to bite are the true drivers of what the greys are commanding.
If all stop paying these ridiculous demand prices, they’ll will drop like bricks.
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Old 23 May 2019, 08:31 AM   #50
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If you want something that is in limited supply or that is in high demand by others You Must Pay the Price! If you can't afford it then there is no reason for you to complain as that will NOT change the Price.

Supply and demand is perhaps one of the most fundamental concepts of economics and it is the backbone of a market economy. Demand refers to how much (quantity) of a product or service is desired by buyers. The quantity demanded is the amount of a product people are willing to buy at a certain price; the relationship between price and quantity demanded is known as the demand relationship. Supply represents how much the market can offer. The quantity supplied refers to the amount of a certain good producers are willing to supply when receiving a certain price. The correlation between price and how much of a good or service is supplied to the market is known as the supply relationship. Price, therefore, is a reflection of supply and demand.

The relationship between demand and supply underlie the forces behind the allocation of resources. In market economy theories, demand and supply theory will allocate resources in the most efficient way possible.
While an absolute logical and sound argument, the problem is and continues to be driven by all the watches that go immediately to greys, who then command the high prices. It’s not an issue of demand and supply. The supply is there. It’s just that it is being diverted to a third party rather than the initially intended consumer.

Proof of aforementioned is how many are readily available via any grey dealer, anywhere. There is one in my town that has any watch I may want. That defeats the demand argument if he tells me he can readily procure ANY watch I want but of course, at a premium. A true supply issue would not allow him to do that so readily.
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Old 23 May 2019, 06:46 PM   #51
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While an absolute logical and sound argument, the problem is and continues to be driven by all the watches that go immediately to greys, who then command the high prices. It’s not an issue of demand and supply. The supply is there. It’s just that it is being diverted to a third party rather than the initially intended consumer.



Proof of aforementioned is how many are readily available via any grey dealer, anywhere. There is one in my town that has any watch I may want. That defeats the demand argument if he tells me he can readily procure ANY watch I want but of course, at a premium. A true supply issue would not allow him to do that so readily.


Such sense should not be allowed on this forum


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Old 23 May 2019, 07:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by 123Blueface View Post
While an absolute logical and sound argument, the problem is and continues to be driven by all the watches that go immediately to greys, who then command the high prices. It’s not an issue of demand and supply. The supply is there. It’s just that it is being diverted to a third party rather than the initially intended consumer.

Proof of aforementioned is how many are readily available via any grey dealer, anywhere. There is one in my town that has any watch I may want. That defeats the demand argument if he tells me he can readily procure ANY watch I want but of course, at a premium. A true supply issue would not allow him to do that so readily.
Good post.

If I may add, IMO the high grey prices are driven by adding their margin to the MSRP pricing the ADs are getting from the greys now. The top TS's are no longer getting discounts, and that drives up the so called market value. So, market value isn't really market, it's the artificially inflated prices of the greys maintaining their margins. People are essentially paying an exorbitant fee for a shopping service and calling it market rate.
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Old 23 May 2019, 10:49 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123Blueface View Post
While an absolute logical and sound argument, the problem is and continues to be driven by all the watches that go immediately to greys, who then command the high prices. It’s not an issue of demand and supply. The supply is there. It’s just that it is being diverted to a third party rather than the initially intended consumer.

Proof of aforementioned is how many are readily available via any grey dealer, anywhere. There is one in my town that has any watch I may want. That defeats the demand argument if he tells me he can readily procure ANY watch I want but of course, at a premium. A true supply issue would not allow him to do that so readily.
If people weren't willing to pay those high prices, then it wouldn't matter if the watches went to grey dealers first.
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Old 23 May 2019, 11:21 PM   #54
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I couldn’t bring myself to pay double retail for something even if I had the means to.

Doesn’t sit well with me at all, much rather go without.

Lots do and don’t bat an eyelid but for me I couldn’t. I think I would grow to dislike the item.

I’m strange I guess!


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Old 23 May 2019, 11:25 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by BNA/LION View Post
If you want something that is in limited supply or that is in high demand by others You Must Pay the Price! If you can't afford it then there is no reason for you to complain as that will NOT change the Price.

Supply and demand is perhaps one of the most fundamental concepts of economics and it is the backbone of a market economy. Demand refers to how much (quantity) of a product or service is desired by buyers. The quantity demanded is the amount of a product people are willing to buy at a certain price; the relationship between price and quantity demanded is known as the demand relationship. Supply represents how much the market can offer. The quantity supplied refers to the amount of a certain good producers are willing to supply when receiving a certain price. The correlation between price and how much of a good or service is supplied to the market is known as the supply relationship. Price, therefore, is a reflection of supply and demand.

The relationship between demand and supply underlie the forces behind the allocation of resources. In market economy theories, demand and supply theory will allocate resources in the most efficient way possible.
This should be a sticky at the top of the General Discussion Forum
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Old 6 September 2019, 06:04 AM   #56
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Let’s say for instance a certain seller has the last four (possibly) discontinued 116610LVc. Full sets, dated within the last few weeks, all bits and pieces included. He list just the first one at US 16,000. It sells in 1 day, then 5 days later they list the 2nd one at 16,900. That’s gone in 24 hours again. You get the picture by now I hope.

Why is this wrong, they are running a business, who wouldn’t do the same ? If you don’t wanna pay the price, fine, move on to something else and quit bitching. It’s sicking that you grown adults bitch and moan, but a lot of you go out and spend 100,000+ on cars, vacations houses and other toys etc.. it’s a freakin luxury item.

Not all of you complain but a lot do and with so much hatred it’s ridiculous. If you’re running your own business and you have a chance to sell a product at 75% margin for example, that everyone wants, are you not going to do it ! If you want to run a non profit go ahead, you’ll be loved but your lifestyle will suffer.

Someone will aways be happy to pay well above what the grey pays and do so happily. Take some blood pressure medicine and spend 200 on a Seiko instead.

This is directed to the cry babies. Maybe in the future these ROLEX watches will settle back down.

There is no shortage of watches. The grey market is full of it trying to get there share of unscrupulous money, to buy bread for there crying young grey marketeers in the making.

If there was no grey market, all of these watches would have been on the shelves of the unscrupulous AD's who sold to Grey marketeers.

its not a nice way to earn money. You are doing black market for rolex.

its unethical, unfair, dishonest crooked fraudulent and rotten

We, all who have hard earned $$ should totally stop buying from GREY or Black market, and make you people like Runnin rebel make them eat there hulks for food

Runnin rebel Keep your CRappy colured rolex some where stinky
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Old 6 September 2019, 06:22 AM   #57
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i am not a cry baby, fair play to anybody who makes good using ethical capitalism, i would love to do it,

i just wont pay those prices as its not that important to me.
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Old 6 September 2019, 09:01 AM   #58
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When you're all done, could someone please pass the salt?

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Old 6 September 2019, 09:13 AM   #59
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Cool it. I was quoting two words in your heading that displayed a superior attitude. Nothing to do with grammar.
I agree, Adam. Some people have a 'Holier than Thou' attitude.
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Old 6 September 2019, 09:24 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by 123Blueface View Post
While an absolute logical and sound argument, the problem is and continues to be driven by all the watches that go immediately to greys, who then command the high prices. It’s not an issue of demand and supply. The supply is there. It’s just that it is being diverted to a third party rather than the initially intended consumer.

Proof of aforementioned is how many are readily available via any grey dealer, anywhere. There is one in my town that has any watch I may want. That defeats the demand argument if he tells me he can readily procure ANY watch I want but of course, at a premium. A true supply issue would not allow him to do that so readily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdullah71601 View Post
Good post.

If I may add, IMO the high grey prices are driven by adding their margin to the MSRP pricing the ADs are getting from the greys now. The top TS's are no longer getting discounts, and that drives up the so called market value. So, market value isn't really market, it's the artificially inflated prices of the greys maintaining their margins. People are essentially paying an exorbitant fee for a shopping service and calling it market rate.
This is where it’s at ... Excellent points gentlemen which
I believe to be 100% true... it’s all rigged .

I’ll also add that I don’t care about prices.
I’m not playing or paying so it is what it is.
If there’s something I want and I have the coin at that time
I will determine at that point if it’s a go .
But the crying is getting a bit too much .
Don’t buy it then and just wait it out ... That’s all , quite simple.
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