Tudor or Rolex

[Old Expat Beast]

Just putting this out there for discussion really. As Montres Tudor SA wasn't established until 1946, would any watch made prior to that, say in the 1930s, with Tudor on the dial (typically with the long 'T' over the 'udor', no rose logo) be considered a Rolex watch?

[Old Expat Beast]

Here's an example, circa 1935.

[rootbeer7]

Not, strictly answering your question, but at the RSC, my Big Block (1992) was noted as a 'Rolex Classic Prince Chronograph'. There was no mention of Tudor.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Not, strictly answering your question, but at the RSC, my Big Block (1992) was noted as a 'Rolex Classic Prince Chronograph'. There was no mention of Tudor.

I hope they didn't charge you RSC rates. The TRC here charges a little over half the price of the RSC. Both are on the same floor of the same building, and share the same staff.

[rootbeer7]

£355 Inc New glass, service, re-attach seconds hand and polish. Approx 40% less than my Dad's tt Datejust.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Just putting this out there for discussion really. As Montres Tudor SA wasn't established until 1946, would any watch made prior to that, say in the 1930s, with Tudor on the dial (typically with the long 'T' over the 'udor', no rose logo) be considered a Rolex watch?

I would think the watch would be a Rolex at that point, however the model would be a Tudor. So a Rolex - Tudor, sort of like the relationship Rolex - Submariner, Rolex - Yachtmaster and so on...

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bharat

I would think the watch would be a Rolex at that point, however the model would be a Tudor. So a Rolex - Tudor, sort of like the relationship Rolex - Submariner, Rolex - Yachtmaster and so on...

The thing is, the name Tudor appeared on many styles of watch, so in the 1930s it was more of a line of watches....somewhat like the Cellini, but limited to certain markets, mostly in the colonies like Australia and Canada.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The thing is, the name Tudor appeared on many styles of watch, so in the 1930s it was more of a line of watches....somewhat like the Cellini, but limited to certain markets, mostly in the colonies like Australia and Canada.

In that era (obviously the Tudor's of today span a wide variety of styles), were the Tudors confined to a certain 'style' ? Such as material of construction, type of movement, bracelet, dressy/functional etc? Or was it as diverse as the Tudor of today?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bharat

In that era (obviously the Tudor's of today span a wide variety of styles), were the Tudors confined to a certain 'style' ? Such as material of construction, type of movement, bracelet, dressy/functional etc? Or was it as diverse as the Tudor of today?

All shapes and sizes, men's and women's. The cases were often made in the country of sale, to avoid heavy import duties of the time. Things were much more flexible and fluid back then.

[Observor]

Adam

I remember reading the history of the companies years ago. This is from the Tudor website.

1926__
BIRTH OF THE BRAND
“For some years now I have been considering the idea of making a watch that our agents could sell at a more modest price than our Rolex watches, and yet one that would attain the standards of dependability for which Rolex is famous. It is called the Tudor Watch Company.” Hans Wilsdorf

1946__
CREATION OF “MONTRES
TUDOR S.A.” COMPANY
Just after the Second World War, Hans Wilsdorf knew that the time had come to expand and give the brand a proper identity of its own. Thus, on 6 March 1946, he created the “Montres TUDOR S.A.” company, specialising in models for both men and women. Rolex would guarantee the technical, aesthetic and functional characteristics, along with the distribution and after-sales service.

[Observor]

I'm guessing it would be a Tudor since it was the Tudor Watch Company from 1926-1946 or Tudor by Rolex.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Observor

Adam

I remember reading the history of the companies years ago. This is from the Tudor website.

1926__
BIRTH OF THE BRAND
“For some years now I have been considering the idea of making a watch that our agents could sell at a more modest price than our Rolex watches, and yet one that would attain the standards of dependability for which Rolex is famous. It is called the Tudor Watch Company.” Hans Wilsdorf

1946__
CREATION OF “MONTRES
TUDOR S.A.” COMPANY
Just after the Second World War, Hans Wilsdorf knew that the time had come to expand and give the brand a proper identity of its own. Thus, on 6 March 1946, he created the “Montres TUDOR S.A.” company, specialising in models for both men and women. Rolex would guarantee the technical, aesthetic and functional characteristics, along with the distribution and after-sales service.

What you have under 1926 is actually from 1946, and was used to announce and later advertise the new Tudor Watch Co, or Tudor Montres SA. Tudor was registered by proxy as a trademark in 1926, then Wilsdorf took it over in 1936. But there was no Tudor company till 1946.

This ad is from 1952.

[Observor]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

What you have under 1926 is actually from 1946, and was used to announce and later advertise the new Tudor Watch Co, or Tudor Montres SA.

Just pulled it from the Tudor site.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Observor

Just pulled it from the Tudor site.

You pulled a quote pulled at random by the web designer, because they had nothing to illustrate the 1926 part of the timeline.

[Observor]

Sounds good, not trying to split hairs.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Rolex sold some watches under the Tudor name before actually incorporating the company.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Observor

Sounds good, not trying to split hairs.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Rolex sold some watches under the Tudor name before actually incorporating the company.

They sold a great many watches with the Tudor name on (see above for an example), mostly in commonwealth countries, but they were usually marked Rolex somewhere...either on the dial or on the movement, or caseback. But the company wasn't established till 1946. Hence my original question.

[bharat]

So the movement in the watches of that era were possibly manufactured in the same location as the Rolex movements? And quite possibly was the identical movement assembled by the same folks who were assembling the movements for Rolex watches? Cost advantages were realized by fabricating cases/crystals/bracelets in local countries?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bharat

So the movement in the watches of that era were possibly manufactured in the same location as the Rolex movements? And quite possibly was the identical movement assembled by the same folks who were assembling the movements for Rolex watches? Cost advantages were realized by fabricating cases/crystals/bracelets in local countries?

Yes, and localised case manufacture would depend on the destination country's import tarriffs, and the type of metals used (gold being heavily taxed in the 1930s), from what I have read.

[Base-Z]

Originally Posted by bharat

So the movement in the watches of that era were possibly manufactured in the same location as the Rolex movements? And quite possibly was the identical movement assembled by the same folks who were assembling the movements for Rolex watches? Cost advantages were realized by fabricating cases/crystals/bracelets in local countries?

The movement in my Tudor Oyster C.1945/6, has no mention of Tudor
on it. However if you remove the dial, you find this n the movement.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Base-Z

The movement in my Tudor Oyster C.1945/6, has no mention of Tudor
on it. However if you remove the dial, you find this n the movement.

Any chance of a look at the whole watch please?

[joe100]

I regard the pre46 Tudors the same way I regard the Unicorns and other rebranded labels. It's like the Bluetooth system in my BMW. It says BMW on the box but inside it was allade by Alpine

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by joe100

I regard the pre46 Tudors the same way I regard the Unicorns and other rebranded labels. It's like the Bluetooth system in my BMW. It says BMW on the box but inside it was allade by Alpine

I get the first part of your post, but I think it's the opposite of your bluetooth analogy. The pre 1946 watch is 'labelled' Tudor but made by Rolex Watch Co. Ltd.

[bharat]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I get the first part of your post, but I think it's the opposite of your bluetooth analogy. The pre 1946 watch is 'labelled' Tudor but made by Rolex Watch Co. Ltd.

Like a wolf in sheeps clothing..