Why Do People Say ALS Watches Plummet in Value?

[Chiboy]

I have seen many references to A. Lange & Sohne watches and how poorly they retain value. I have one buddy who bought a new one back 7-8 years ago, and was able to negotiate a large discount on an L1. It is now worth well more than he paid for it, I am sure.

So, ok , compared to list price, maybe most ALS watches decline more than some Rolexes or hot PPs. But it seems like the often heard advice to not buy an ALS if you think you may ever sell it, should be comparing out the door new prices to used prices. When viewed in that context, do they really depreciate more than other brands? I haven't tried, but get the impression that new ALS watches can be bought for a significant discount versus list price, so maybe it's just that retailers can't get their full retail markup? It seems like used Lange 1s and used Datographs that I have noticed are not being given away, although perhaps it would be nice if they were.

Thoughts?

[locutus49]

My thought is that in the US, ALS are really only known, for the large part, to WIS, so demand is limited. In the US, in my experience, Rolex and Patek are best known as luxury watches to the average buyer and thus hold their value better. I could be wrong.

[AK797]

Mainly it is said here just to distinguish it from its peers of AP and PP as they are of similar quality in other respects, but its fall in value is in line with most brands other than Rolex and PP, so you do have to buy right, but as you say the popular models do hold value reasonably well.

[Dancing Fire]

I bought a L1 for $12k and wore it like 4 yrs then sold it for $15,500

[Chiboy]

Did Lange's double or triple in price from 2008/09 to current day?

[soundserious]

Like any watch you have to buy right. Lange makes a great watch, I've owned several and they were all marvelous.

[Patek Philippe]

A. Lange makes many fabulous timepieces.

Like many brands, including the king of watch Rolex and Patek, some of their models hold value and some don’t.

[Hairdude1]

Originally Posted by AK797

Mainly it is said here just to distinguish it from its peers of AP and PP as they are of similar quality in other respects, but its fall in value is in line with most brands other than Rolex and PP, so you do have to buy right, but as you say the popular models do hold value reasonably well.

Agree

[KarlS]

Every brand has models that are dogs but considering ALS only makes circac7000 watches a year there should be a waiting list 10 years long!!! Fact is that apart from Datograh you can get huge discounts. I was offered 25% + VAT if 20% on Perpetual Dato.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Every brand has models that are dogs but considering ALS only makes circac7000 watches a year there should be a waiting list 10 years long!!! Fact is that apart from Datograh you can get huge discounts. I was offered 25% + VAT if 20% on Perpetual Dato.

this.

IMO the right models hold value reasonable well ( just not PP well) but its the high quality + low production volume which makes the fact they lose any value at all a bit confusing.

I lost more money in percentage terms selling a DSSD than i probably would selling a datograph with the common discounts available. Its the amount of money you lose that makes it seem worse than it is if looking at just the sum, a loss calculated on percentage of sales price some Rolex models do the same or worse. It just seems less because the starting price is much less.

[regnant]

The thing is to me is that A Lange Sohne is fairly a newer brand to other highly esteemed brands in haute horologie. It's has a deep long history but it was reestablished in midst 1990s.
Vacheron Constantin also doesn't hold its value as much as Rolex, Patek Philippe, and even Cartier.
Another nitpick would be it's a genuine ���� German brand, not Swiss where high horology is only epitomized with
They're also not fully dependent brand part of which is owned by Richmond Group. I don't know whether or not being an independent brand has an impact in holding a better value when it comes to resale value at all

[lapince]

Because they do... Datograph perpetual was 130.300 euros around 3 years ago, and no discount because "it's very rare and very in demand", smiled but said nothing, on Chrono 24 a new one could be had for 89.000, a mint one for 69.000. Of course if you buy a basic model, and sell it 7-8 years later, the MSRP probably went up and you won't loose almost gain. But the times of huge raises in the watch industry, IMHO, are finished with the Chinese and Russian markets being what they are. But hey give it a try if you want, but I like new watches, would never get a new ALS, but if you do I suggest used...

[Hollister]

Pretty much every watch loses value on the s/h market. Why would you pay more for a used watch?

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Hollister

Pretty much every watch loses value on the s/h market. Why would you pay more for a used watch?

That is perfectly rationale thought! Everyone expects to make money on acwatch which is silly! You don't on a used car!

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

That is perfectly rationale thought! Everyone expects to make money on acwatch which is silly! You don't on a used car!

well you do on maybe 10 watches, not the thousands of others...

[Chiboy]

Thank you for all the responses. So it seems that most of us are generally saying the same thing:

ALS watches depreciate (compared with MSRP) in the aftermarket significantly, with few exceptions (Datograph?). This is consistent with most other PM watches, which have high prices and therefor big $ margins. So either buy ALS watches at a very significant discount new, which perhaps isn't hard to do (like with PM Rolex), or buy slightly used for a big discount off MSRP.

This is completely consistent with Rolex PM purchases to me. I got a two month old platinum Daytona for less than new wholesale cost. I would have gotten killed buying it at my local AD (who offered less than 10% off). Maybe I'll lose money on it if I ever sell. Do I care? No. The big depreciation hit was already taken. Sounds like the same strategy should be employed when buying ALS, and the results will likely be similar.

[Star Ferry]

I don't think the demand is out there. Not being Swiss is a tough sell at that price point

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Thank you for all the responses. So it seems that most of us are generally saying the same thing:

ALS watches depreciate (compared with MSRP) in the aftermarket significantly, with few exceptions (Datograph?). This is consistent with most other PM watches, which have high prices and therefor big $ margins. So either buy ALS watches at a very significant discount new, which perhaps isn't hard to do (like with PM Rolex), or buy slightly used for a big discount off MSRP.

This is completely consistent with Rolex PM purchases to me. I got a two month old platinum Daytona for less than new wholesale cost. I would have gotten killed buying it at my local AD (who offered less than 10% off). Maybe I'll lose money on it if I ever sell. Do I care? No. The big depreciation hit was already taken. Sounds like the same strategy should be employed when buying ALS, and the results will likely be similar.

pretty much sums it up. ALS resale is not to be compared to a SS sub. Rolex PM is much better comparison. In london at least, larger discounts on ALS are easier to begin with than a PM Rolex.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Thank you for all the responses. So it seems that most of us are generally saying the same thing:

ALS watches depreciate (compared with MSRP) in the aftermarket significantly, with few exceptions (Datograph?). This is consistent with most other PM watches, which have high prices and therefor big $ margins. So either buy ALS watches at a very significant discount new, which perhaps isn't hard to do (like with PM Rolex), or buy slightly used for a big discount off MSRP.

This is completely consistent with Rolex PM purchases to me. I got a two month old platinum Daytona for less than new wholesale cost. I would have gotten killed buying it at my local AD (who offered less than 10% off). Maybe I'll lose money on it if I ever sell. Do I care? No. The big depreciation hit was already taken. Sounds like the same strategy should be employed when buying ALS, and the results will likely be similar.

Dato drops like a stone just as much, but otherwise, you’ve finally cottoned on to the reality of the wider watch market beyond SS Rolexes and the few Pateks which do likewise.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Dato drops like a stone just as much, but otherwise, you’ve finally cottoned on to the reality of the wider watch market beyond SS Rolexes and the few Pateks which do likewise.

Finally! I thought I'd never get it!

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I don't think the demand is out there. Not being Swiss is a tough sell at that price point

Lack of Swissness isn’t the issue – just look at De Bethune, as but one example.
And you can forget about AP’s Concept models being good value at $300K too.
Hype, supply manipulation, and constantly being mentioned in various publications have their part to play, but the simple fact is they are not widely desirable, so discounting/being more keenly priced is necessary, in order to appeal to those teetering on the fence.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by lapince

Because they do... Datograph perpetual was 130.300 euros around 3 years ago, and no discount because "it's very rare and very in demand", smiled but said nothing, on Chrono 24 a new one could be had for 89.000, a mint one for 69.000. Of course if you buy a basic model, and sell it 7-8 years later, the MSRP probably went up and you won't loose almost gain. But the times of huge raises in the watch industry, IMHO, are finished with the Chinese and Russian markets being what they are. But hey give it a try if you want, but I like new watches, would never get a new ALS, but if you do I suggest used...

The funny thing is this is supposed to be a luxury market. The ideal customer doesn't care about resale -- he walks in, browses, and buys whatever appeals to his eye

but how many of those customers exist? there are millions of luxury watches being produced every year. most of the real customers care about resale and don't consider the purchase price to be disposable money. yet these companies can't admit the truth

I helped launch a cosmetics brand, and from the beginning we tried to be realistic about who our customers were going to be. Initially we wanted to sell an $80 product, but it ended up being a $20-40 product.When you're selling into a market it helps to be empirical

[ansharma]

Originally Posted by AK797

Mainly it is said here just to distinguish it from its peers of AP and PP as they are of similar quality in other respects, but its fall in value is in line with most brands other than Rolex and PP, so you do have to buy right, but as you say the popular models do hold value reasonably well.

Perfectly summed up Neil

Lange is a fabulous brand and make amazing watches, do handle a few watches if you are thinking of buying one and you will see what I mean

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

The funny thing is this is supposed to be a luxury market. The ideal customer doesn't care about resale...

It's a common misconception that the higher a customer's disposable income is, the more lenient he'll be in how he spends his money. Very high net worth individuals chase a bargain just as much as the rest of us, if not more.

I really dig the Datograph and hope to acquire one of the first generation models (before the Up/Down). For $30-35K on the resale market they're fantastic and a real value compared to just about anything the Swiss make. Needless to say, their quality pushes the boundaries of watchmaking. So why do they go down in value? For the same reason their Swiss counterparts do: they're made of precious metals and they're readily available with minimal barrier to entry.

[WatchEater666]

If you buy tactically, you won't lose much if anything at all.

I spent around $200k+ on watches in 2019/2020 (including a Lange 1) and made a little bit of money. It paid for a chunk of my Zeitwerk that I bought brand new.

[GreenLantern]

Lange's marketing strategy also leaves a bit to be desired, as does their retail strategy.

This all contributes to significant value depreciation right after driving off the lot. :)

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

It's a common misconception that the higher a customer's disposable income is, the more lenient he'll be in how he spends his money. Very high net worth individuals chase a bargain just as much as the rest of us, if not more.

Obviously I still buy things that lose value because I believe I derive some value out of it (pleasure, satisfaction, whatever), but yes, it's a consideration.

[scrappy]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

It's a common misconception that the higher a customer's disposable income is, the more lenient he'll be in how he spends his money. Very high net worth individuals chase a bargain just as much as the rest of us, if not more.

I really dig the Datograph and hope to acquire one of the first generation models (before the Up/Down). For $30-35K on the resale market they're fantastic and a real value compared to just about anything the Swiss make. Needless to say, their quality pushes the boundaries of watchmaking. So why do they go down in value? For the same reason their Swiss counterparts do: they're made of precious metals and they're readily available with minimal barrier to entry.

It depends. HNW collectors care because they can have millions tied up in a watch collection where it shows up on the radar in their net worth calculation. Non collectors will simply buy a watch they like and write it off in their head as an expense, as they would a vacation.