How much of this expensive service truly is necessary?

[BillT]

Hello -

Last year, I inherited a Rolex GMT Master II from my stepfather, who died of liver cancer. From the serial number, I have determined that it is (if I'm recalling correctly) a 1985 or 1986 model. He bought it new back then.

It has the "Pepsi" bezel ring (red and blue).

About two weeks ago, I took it to a good jewelry store to have it appraised for insurance purposes and to see what, if any, servicing or cleaning it might need.

They sent it to the Rolex service center in NY, who sent back a lengthy list of "required" servicing and some "recommended" items.

The "required" is the full disassembly and cleaning, for which they want to charge $600. They also want to do something with the crown (I think replace the gasket and hone the hole it goes through or something like that). They also want to replace the hands and the clasp.

I did notice that the clasp felt a little wimpy, and they're saying that a rivet has been replaced with a non-Rolex rivet and that the clasp doesn't meet factory specs. To replace the clasp and the adjacent link that goes with it, they're saying about $600.

And then there's a bunch of "recommended" work. All in all, it's nearly $3,000 in work, which blew me away.

I have a couple questions:

First, the jeweler could not answer to my satisfaction what it means when Rolex says certain work is "required." Do they give some kind of warranty? How can Rolex tell me what I "have to" do to my watch?

Second, is there a way I can get a second opinion or other estimate? Some of the price they want to charge are pretty outrageous. For example, they are suggesting I get a new bracelet. They will take my old one "in trade" and sell me a new one for nearly $1,000! I asked the jeweler what makes the Rolex stainless steel bracelet worth $1,000 as compared to any other stainless steel bracelet.

Ultimately, it seems to me that a lot of this pricing is based on the fact that these bits of metal have that little crown logo on them, and nothing more. They charge these prices because they can.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is how much of this service truly is necessary to keep the watch functioning properly and preserve its value? It currently keeps perfect time - I know my stepfather had it serviced a few years back - I don't know exactly when or exactly what he had done, but I know he had a local watch guy do it, who was experienced with Rolex watched (apparently, that is where the "non-Rolex" rivet came from).

I have been told by various sources that this watch might have a market value of between $5,000 and $7,500. But I can't see spending $3,000 on some of the bits and pieces Rolex is saying I should or have to replace.

For example, the hands, which they tell me are white gold. Why in the world would the hands need to be replaced? They're inside a sealed watch case. They're gold, which doesn't tarnish. They're not worn or damaged.

I have to admit, a lot of what they're telling me sounds like a racket. I'll admit the bracelet is a bit scuffed, and the crystal (which actually is plastic) has one small chip, so I'd like to see the crystal replaced and bracelet polished - but $1,000 for a new bracelet? $600 to replace the clasp?

I would appreciate your thoughts and advice here. The jewelry store called me the other day and asked me which work I would like them to do, as they're holding the watch and want to know what to do with it.

Thanks!

[padi56]

If its a recommendation you do not have to have it done, all watches with acrylic crystals are replaced as part of normal service.And things like crowns and crown tubes are replaceable items too.Just tell them all you want is a movement service or there are several Independents like Bob Ridley,and Rikki. Both forum members that do excellent work with vintage Rolex and use only genuine Rolex parts do a forum search.

[CPTL]

Required service items relate to the movement and water resistance of the watch. If you send the watch in to RSC for service, you are agreeing to receive (and pay for) these services--Rolex will not service the watch otherwise. $600 is standard for a Rolex service, and it comes with a 1-year warranty on the movement and water resistance.

The other items are at your election. Acryllic crystals are standard replacement item (as is crown tube) at a 5-7 year service, but (for some reason) not included in the basic service price. $1000 is standard Rolex price for a replacement bracelet, but this is not a mandatory replace item. You could leave it as is, replace it with a strap, or replace with a genuine Rolex replacement that your source elsewhere (this forum has many resources).

Hands are another issue altogether. The luminous material is depleted, so the hands won't glow in the dark. To bring it back to "like new" condition, RSC will want to replace them. RSC charges a TON for replacement hands and dial. You can certainly leave them as-is, or try to find through another source. Remember if you get RSC service, but then have the hands replaced elsewhere, the case will be re-opened, movement removed, and watch must be re-regulated. TRegulation should be covered under the warranty, but if they notice that you've had the hands replaced elsewhere it's possible there could be a problem.

Also on the hands, most collectors of vintage pieces (of which yours is one) want the original hands and dial. Many folks like the vintage patina (fading of the luminous material) that occurs over time.

Finally, I will add on the "what makes a Rolex bracelet worth $1000?" question. Nothing inherent to the materials or design, to be sure. However, it is a Rolex. If you put non-Rolex parts on it, then it's no longer a Rolex. We disagree about almost everything on this forum, but there is one idea we all accept: replacing a Rolex oyster bracelet with a look-alike aftermarket bracelet is uncool. NATO straps, bund cuffs, and Tropic rubber straps are a splinter issue.

Mandatory service items are mandatory--if you want Rolex authorized service (and warranty), you must pay for these items. I (as would most everyone here) strongly recommend getting the movement serviced even if the watch is keeping good time--Rolex is designed to last for 100 years, but not without a little help. The rest is up to you. They're superficial items that are costly through RSC but can be foregone entirely or performed at lower cost through other sources.

BTW I'd love to inherit a vintage GMT, bought new by someone who was close to me. What better way to always have part of them with you? (Remember we're all watch nerds.) Cheers, and welcome to TRF. --Kevin

[gqllc]

Bob Ridley would be a good person to get a quote from

[mtasquared]

The $600 movement service (and crown replacement perhaps) is probably the only thing in that list that is truly required. Do you want to wear it or sell it? If you want to wear it and it is falling off your wrist because the clasp is broken it would probably be good to replace the clasp. If you can't read the dial because the crystal is too scratched, then replace that.

However, if you want to sell it you should know that vintage watch collectors like all- original parts!! They don't even like it polished!! (you can ask to have it not polished). Thus, replacing the hands sounds like a bad idea.

So, in large part, it's up to you. I had my old 16610 serviced to the tune of $1400, at Rolex, NY, and now it looks like a brand new watch. I also had the clasp replaced, which cost $490, and other things, but I wasn't looking to sell it as a vintage piece. I needed to wear it and not have it fall off my wrist.

[drtooth73]

Get some quotes from independent watchmakers as well.
If there was a service done recently (per your stepfather), if possible, check with the same technician, maybe all you need is a new crystal?

[Mickey®]

Originally Posted by mtasquared

The $600 movement service (and crown replacement perhaps) is probably the only thing in that list that is truly required. Do you want to wear it or sell it? If you want to wear it and it is falling off your wrist because the clasp is broken it would probably be good to replace the clasp. If you can't read the dial because the crystal is too scratched, then replace that.

However, if you want to sell it you should know that vintage watch collectors like all- original parts!! They don't even like it polished!! (you can ask to have it not polished). Thus, replacing the hands sounds like a bad idea.

So, in large part, it's up to you. I had my old 16610 serviced to the tune of $1400, at Rolex, NY, and now it looks like a brand new watch. I also had the clasp replaced, which cost $490, and other things, but I wasn't looking to sell it as a vintage piece. I needed to wear it and not have it fall off my wrist.

That is a shame..$490.00 for a clasp...that kills me.
I'm putting duct tape on my clasp right after this post!!!

[T-Rip]

I think you should post some pics of the watch..then maybe the above mentioned fellow TRF's that service watches can possibly point out a thing or two...

[mtasquared]

Originally Posted by Mickey®

That is a shame..$490.00 for a clasp...that kills me.
I'm putting duct tape on my clasp right after this post!!!

Well, in my case the original clasp was truly shot. Let's face it, it's kind of cheaply made!! Anyway, they played hardball with me at Rolex, NY, when I showed up there in person. After disassembling the watch to examine it, they said "if you don't replace the clasp, we will not reattach the bracelet". So, for necessity's sake and because of their general tactics, I bought it.

[Mickey®]

Originally Posted by mtasquared

Well, in my case the original clasp was truly shot. Let's face it, it's kind of cheaply made!! Anyway, they played hardball with me at Rolex, NY, when I showed up there in person. After disassembling the watch to examine it, they said "if you don't replace the clasp, we will not reattach the bracelet". So, for necessity's sake and because of their general tactics, I bought it.

Crazy...if my tire guy tells me he isn't going to sell me unless I buy new RIMS I'm leaving...

[Dr. Robert]

I have had 3 vintage Rolex & 1 vintage Omega serviced & renovated......3 were my dad's....when I got them back I forgot about the expense.......they were magnificent, ran well, looked marvelous......sentimental value......

[eagle_lex]

i can tell you that i took a GENTLY used 12 year old sub to a trusted watch maker in NKY. the diagnosis... needs to be regulated, pressure tested and bracelet brushed. thats it. grand total..... 49 bucks! they said it looked and ran perfect. so i wont be doing a full service like i originally thought. and when i do... i will be taking it back to these guys. awefully honest IMO.

to answer your question... i would find an independent and only replace what you feel is necessary.

[azguy]

Great watch, post some pics Plus, give some thought about if you are going to keep and wear or sell. That should affect your decision on service. Good luck either way and keep us watch nerds posted-

[Mickey®]

Originally Posted by eagle_lex

i can tell you that i took a GENTLY used 12 year old sub to a trusted watch maker in NKY. the diagnosis... needs to be regulated, pressure tested and bracelet brushed. thats it. grand total..... 49 bucks! they said it looked and ran perfect. so i wont be doing a full service like i originally thought. and when i do... i will be taking it back to these guys. awefully honest IMO.

to answer your question... i would find an independent and only replace what you feel is necessary.

I'm not a fan of servicing unless it needs it BUT if my watch guy told me that my 12 year old automatic watch only needed regulation, PT and a brushed bracelet I would walk not run. To another.

[zeuloa]

Originally Posted by CPTL

$600 is standard for a Rolex service, and it comes with a 1-year warranty on the movement and water resistance.

Service Warranty is now 2 years..

Look at it this way - If you are keeping the watch and it has sentimental value to you, you are paying $3000 for a brand new Rolex. When the watch comes back from RSC, it will be just like a brand new watch!

[Freedom fighter]

Hi, just to put my 2 cents in....I have just put my yacht master into RSC in the uk and I can sympathise with you. I only need a straight forward service as the watch is 7 years old and in fairly good condition. The cost of the service with no additional parts? £430...BUT, to be fair it will come back absolutely spanking. I take pleasure in knowing rolex are working on my watch and the fact it is being serviced at a centre which uses machines sent directly from Switzerland and that there is a different machine for different parts of the watch. I know there are brilliant independent service centres but for me there is only one way......

[MoBe]

The questions you should be asking are,what to do if I want to keep the watch and wear it or,what to do if I want to sell the watch.

You have to decide the future of your watch before you can decide where it`s value lies for you.

[BillT]

Thanks for all the great feedback.

The main reason I took it to the jewelry store here was to get an appraisal for insurance purposes. Which I haven't yet gotten. But I want to know (1) current fair market value of that watch and (2) replacement value. My insurer will insure it for replacement value, which is the amount it would cost to buy a new, essentially equivalent, watch.

The jeweler told me the essentially equivalent new version of this watch runs about $7,000. My small amount of research on the web makes me think the current market value as a used GMT Master II is somewhere in the neighborhood of $4,500 - $5,000. Which is why I don't think it makes any sense to spend $3,000 on it. Any thoughts on that?

While I was there talking to the guy, he also said that it should be serviced about every 5 or 6 years. I don't know exactly when my stepfather had it serviced last, and I figured it probably would be good to start at zero, for my own purposes, so I agreed to have him send it to Rolex for them to take a look at it.

Up until that point, I had been wearing the watch pretty much every weekday at work (I'm a desk jockey, so it's not at any risk of getting banged around too much). It keeps perfect time. The crown works perfectly and screws on nicely.

I just called them and asked to have Rolex send the watch back. I will research alternatives. I do want to preserve the value, but I do not currently have plans to sell it (my mother probably would kill me if I did - she already has said it's too bad I don't have a son to pass it down to, but maybe one of my daughters will give me a grandson who can inherit it from me). But I do plan on wearing it in the office or out to dinner or whatever. I have several other watches for banging around and stuff, so at least half the time, the Rolex will be either in a drawer or in the safe - and I wouldn't wear it when I'm in my workshop or out sailing or digging in the yard or whatever.

I also just called a jeweler I found via the web - Minor Jewelry in Nashville, TN - and he said he probably could repair the clasp, but of course he would have to take a look at it. I don't like the idea of putting an aftermarket bracelet on it - I would rather keep it all original.

I don't know about replacing the face and hands, either - the guy at Minor said that the guys who like the older Rolex watches like the patina of the original face and hands, so if I replaced them, it might actually make the watch slightly less desirable and decrease the potential value. The hand and dial no longer glow in the dark, which I sometimes have found annoying, but it's no big deal.

Maybe I'll just get it serviced, cleaned, etc., get the crystal replaced, get the clasp repaired, making sure he uses all Rolex parts, and then just keep it in the safe and preserve it. I don't have to wear it - but I probably will now and then.

I'm not a watch nut - I have too many other hobbies and things to spend my money on.

I have to say that, although a few years ago I was lusting after a Breitling, or maybe a Rolex, once I went to the store and started handling them and tried one out on my wrist, I concluded that I simply could not look myself in the mirror if I spent $5,000 or more on a watch. It's not that I can't afford it - I certainly could if I really wanted to. It's just that it makes no sense to me. My wife bought me a very nice $500 Citizen with Eco drive for my birthday several years ago (being the frugal woman she is, she paid only $300), and it's a very cool watch that keeps perfect time, looks great and theoretically should run forever, as the face is a solar panel. Yeah, I know it doesn't have that little Rolex crown logo on it, but I don't care. It simply isn't worth it to me - I have lots of other things I would rather use that money for.

More recently, I also have come to the same conclusion regarding cars. Many years ago, my daily driver was a Porsche. I now realize how many very nice, reliable used cars can be had for not a whole lot of money. I just bought my daughter a used Subaru Outback for less money than a new Rolex would cost, and I love it - it's a great little car. I can't see spending $40,000 or more for a brand new car that will be worth less than half that in a year or two, when for under $10,000, I can get a great car that I am not embarrassed in the slightest to be seen in. And I say this as someone whose wife has driven nothing but Audis for the past 17 years.

I guess I'm having a hard time being convinced as to what makes a Rolex so great that it's "worth" thousands of dollars, when you can buy an equally accurate and attractive watch for a fraction of the price, and not have to pay many hundreds more to have it serviced every 5 or 10 years. I'm sure there was a time when this was not the case, and Rolexes truly were more accurate, reliable and durable than anything else out there, but watch mass-production technology has come a long way in the past 50 years.

I read the "Is a Rolex a status symbol" thread with great interest...

[azguy]

Your on the right track, research, talk with WIS' and then more research. If it was me I would fix it all up and wear the heck out of it

[Megalobyte]

Well, in the world of high end watches, Rolex is one of the cheaper brands. Yes they still cost thousands, but generally, you can sell them for at least what you paid down the road, this fact alone makes them very different from cars. 

If you service them every 5-7 years and don't abuse them, in the end they cost very little to own. So you're not really spending thousands on something that'll depreciate. They're also extremely fine watches, there's a little more to them than the crown insignia. :)

[eagle_lex]

Originally Posted by Mickey®

I'm not a fan of servicing unless it needs it BUT if my watch guy told me that my 12 year old automatic watch only needed regulation, PT and a brushed bracelet I would walk not run. To another.

Thanks for the positive feedback... Ill be sure to run fast w my fully functioning sub on my wrist! When it stops working THEN ill part w my hard earned cash. As of now it looks brand new and runs perfectly!

[Mickey®]

Originally Posted by eagle_lex

Thanks for the positive feedback... Ill be sure to run fast w my fully functioning sub on my wrist! When it stops working THEN ill part w my hard earned cash. As of now it looks brand new and runs perfectly!

You asked for our opinion I guess...not "Please respond if you have to say what I want to here"

[Tools]

Originally Posted by BillT

> . .
I guess I'm having a hard time being convinced as to what makes a Rolex so great that it's "worth" thousands of dollars, when you can buy an equally accurate and attractive watch for a fraction of the price, and not have to pay many hundreds more to have it serviced every 5 or 10 years. I'm sure there was a time when this was not the case, and Rolexes truly were more accurate, reliable and durable than anything else out there, but watch mass-production technology has come a long way in the past 50 years.

I read the "Is a Rolex a status symbol" thread with great interest...

This is always the crux for non enthusiasts, and it's a shame because many very valuable watches are casually tossed aside..

What makes a 1969 Shelby Cobra "worth" a quarter million..

What makes a Ferarri 308 worth more than Mazda..

What makes a Thomas Kinkade worth more than your Grandpas old paintings..

Doing the wrong things with an early Rolex can devalue it by thousands of dollars, as can doing nothing.. 600 bucks is a standard price for properly rebuilding your GMT movement, just like 300 bucks is standard for an oil and filter change on a Bentley..

[Wolfgang427]

Its really a shame that the RSC's have become just like the new car dealers service dept. You go in for a routine oil change and they want to rebuilt your brakes and while your at it sell you new tires that you don't need. IMO its just padding the bill on work that is not needed. Go to an independent watchmaker and just get a service done on whats needed, not whats recommended.

[Singslinger]

If the watch hasn't been serviced in more than 20 years then I reckon a full restoration job would be pretty expensive. Also, I doubt very much that an unserviced watch that old could be sold for your estimate of $4,500-5,000 because buyers would factor in a full Rolex overhaul...

You'd have to ask yourself if bringing the watch up to top condition plus having an official Rolex 2-year warranty is worth $3,000. Personally I think that sum is reasonable because assuming you had paid for regular service over 26 years (say every 7-8 years), the total you would have forked out would be close to $3,000.

Finally it's been my experience that Rolex usually overstate the sum when giving an estimate so the actual bill could be less than $3,000.

Good luck!

[RolexPete32]

When was the last service?

[gwozhog]

Completely blows that a service is more than the watch was originally purchased for. You might as well do it because it will be 4k next year.

[Time2time]

I'd get a trusted horologist off TRF to have a look at it and give you a second opinion. Bound to be cheaper and more trustworthy.

[evilfij]

My policy is to only service the movement and replace nothing and tell them don't polish it. Certainly don't replace the hands, bezel, or dial. I don't mind marks on the crystal so I would never change that either.

[Rags]

What people need to do is find a quality watchmaker that services rolexes & can get genuine rolex parts. Lets face it RSC prices are ridiculous. There are watchmakers that can do a great job for 1/2 the price of a RSC.