Finally Saw it irl the controversial Code 11.59

[Vaxe]

Originally Posted by watchtabs

Nice Michael Kors

yuck. These are a major flop.

[RolexZen]

Jeez, get a grip, people.

[benlee]

I was presented with the time only models ( RG with white dial and WG with blue and black dial ) and the chrono models ( RG with black dial and blue dial and WG with black dial ). In total 6 watches. This is the line that AP has hyped out much in SIHH and received much hatred in return, justify or not, with some particular severe criticism from the WIS community in colorful language.

Anyway, here's my 2 cents.


Case finishing - The Code 11.59 does have a nicely finished case. It's basically a round case with protruding, skeletonized lugs with a octagonal inner case. The octagonal case is held by the lugs and does not directly connect to the base, which means there is a very thin gap in between. The bezel is very thin, which makes the watches wears big. Overall, it's an interesting case, well finished with alternate brush and polished surfaces. I don't like the overtly thin bezel though which I think makes the watch looks big on any wrist < 7.5".

The thin gap in between the octagonal case and the base is a depository for dust and other particles and my review samples already got this problem. Overall it's a nice and interesting case, something you don't see often but I won't call it ground-breaking.





The strap - standard leather strap included including a match RG or WG pin buckle. The inner surface is textured for additional grip and comfort. The strap overall is well made as expected of a strap from AP.


The movement - This is where there is an improvement. It boast AP new inhouse movement that are specially launched for this series. The display caseback are opened to showcase the new movement. The time only models ( Calibre 4302 ) has a particularly nicely finished rotor, bigger and seemingly better finished. I don't have a 15400 with me to compare at the time but of my mind, this is an improvement, but marginal with only slightly better power reserve.




The chrono movement ( Calibre 4401 ) is the long awaited AP inhouse chrono movement. This movement is much more interesting. There is a reasonable amount of depth to it and the parts are nicely finished ( but don't expect Lange type of finishing ). The skeletonized rotor showcase more of the movement and let you see how it works. The push action on the pushers to activate the chrono is however less than satisfactory. It's a hard push and definitely not comparable to the smooth chrono actions of more refined manual winding chronographs.




Bear in mind that these movement has just been launched and like the 3120 back in the early days, there might be some teething issues that only time will tell.




The Dials - This is the part where AP gets a lot of "hate". Seriously speaking, I can kind of understand why. The chrono dials especially with fixed fonts, slim stick indices bear an uncanny resemblance to a particular fashion brand that many WIS collectors will probably frown upon, much less actually buy one. I supposed in this particular case, it is this uncanny resemblance that have collectors up in arms. In person, unfortunately, this is also my impression. The time only models are better. Actually among the entire set, the only dial that I remotely like is the white dial. The lacquered finishing is well done here and it almost like enamel / porcelain in appearance. Less so on the black and blue dials.




All dials with the exception of the white dial time only model suffer from serious readability issues. The hands and indices at certain angle seemingly dissapear into a sea of black and dark blue. Granted, most watches do look a lot better under natural lighting but I do not have the opportunity to see them as such as I have to check out the watches in boutique lighting which apparently just makes the dials even more unreadable. Things might improve under natural lighting but obviously I wasn't able to test this out. The lighting environment also explains the less than satisfactory picture quality here.






AP made a big fuss about how the logos are applied onto the dial but in reality, this doesn't strike me as something particularly outstanding and I certainly have no idea why it will take "years" to do this.

some wrist shots...








Conclusion

Overall, I feel the watch holds some promise in the interesting case and nice movement but it basically need an overhaul in dial design if these watches are going to appeal to me. I am not sure if it deserve all the hate, which after seeing the watches I still feel is dis proportionally exaggerated. Perhaps it is a case of the higher the expectation the worse the disappointment. Fortunately replacing the dial is less of an effort than redesigning the case or movement so there's something to look forward to in future. Lastly, the case does not have a screw-down crown and water resistance is a paltry 30m.

As for now, I probably will stick to the Royal Oak line and eagerly awaits the new chronograph movement debutting on the ROC. It is not groundbreaking like Royal Oak launch in 1972 but nevertheless a brave feat to try on something new even if the results are not expected and the process somehow misguided.

It's quite clear that AP has put these watches out to solicit feedback from their regular customers so hopefully, AP will do something about them soon after this initial pieces are done.

[RolexZen]

Thanks, Ben!

[Bushido]

Excellent write up Ben. The live pics and your impressions are greatly appreciated. Truth be told, your impressions also mirror my initial thoughts on the pics of these models. Although I have not seen them in the metal yet, I'm not expecting a change of heart.

[HK Islandboy]

Very helpful write up, with some really insightful and well taken shots. Thank you.

I’m interested to see these, but don’t expect my ambivalence toward the line to change. Let’s see how these evolve over time

[dsk28]

Thanks for the wonderful write-up Ben.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Cru Jones]

Thank you for your time to share the review and photos.

No point in me piling on, but, wow, what a mess....It's really fascinating how wrong this line is, from the name to the dials to the management of the launch.

[mr_gray]

this was great to read and fair and even generous i thought. well done and thanks for the photos especially. my favourite is the white dial too, it looks so fresh. it seems odd to me that they concentrate on watches on straps. nothing on a bracelet. i understand that is the RO line's turf but isn't that what people want these days? luxury stainless steel watches (or PM versions of same) with some water resistance that fit their travel lifestyle? i collect watches and besides making an exception for the big pilot, watches on straps don't work for me here in humid sydney.

i'm not saying it is a design that lends itself to a bracelet, but i would have imagined a bracelet is a requirement for many buyers.

[masterserg]

Movements look a lot nicer in your latest set of pics. They don't look bad on your wrist either.

I can't wait to see IRL. I am not a buyer for that type of watch but I don't think they are the train wreck everybody makes them up to be.

[GoingPlaces]

That's a great write-up. Hit all the right parts. The watch remains underwhelming for an AP. Thank you.

[DGB]

Originally Posted by watchtabs

Nice Michael Kors

No sir, please do not undermine this watch, it is a nice Daniel Wellington.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RolexZen]

It’s great that we have posters like Ben who examine watches in person and share their informed thoughts, positive and negative. Really appreciate that.

OTOH, disappointed by the unoriginal piling on from other posters.

Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing this collection soon, and I’m looking forward to seeing how it evolves in the future.

[coffeebreak]

This was probably the best review I’ve actually read so far about the controversial line. I never thought about his dust could collect in the gaps.
Honestly though, I can’t help but wonder whether AP has actually sold any of the 3-hand code 11.59 models.

[P2725TMB]

Excellent report, Ben. I'm hoping to see them on Friday and if so will add my own view. Must admit I'm on the fence from pics at the moment. I'd never go for the time only one as I dislike the big plain dial, the chono is the only one I might be interested in. However I continue to have an irrational dislike for non-integrated case to strap, so I suspect with that big ugly (in my eyes) gap its a no go.

I will be interested to compare the dial 'pop' and sharpness to my Omega Seamaster PO.

[singe89]

Probably one of the best/honest reviews I've seen. I haven't been able to see them in person but share many of your thoughts. I commend AP for trying something different than the RO/ROO and using social media to hype the launch but shows you better have the product to back it up or it can backfire.

[SSCosmo]

I went to see the same watches at my local boutique and my conclusions are exactly the same as Ben’s. Seems like the time/date and chrono are the only ones that most boutiques have received to show customers. Also, while I was told there is a list for the PC version, the time/date and chronograph versions will be readily available this year, despite the “limited” production. I guess there just aren’t that many 19 year olds that like the 11.59 and can drop this kind of money on a watch.

[mobster600]

Whoever spends 30k on this is a moron

[artschool]

Originally Posted by coffeebreak

This was probably the best review I’ve actually read so far about the controversial line. I never thought about his dust could collect in the gaps.
Honestly though, I can’t help but wonder whether AP has actually sold any of the 3-hand code 11.59 models.

the gap in the case is to collect the AP DNA.

[SBC1986]

Originally Posted by APAP

I think you’re missing the point. 1972 ‘negative’ was about paying premium for a (really nice) SS watch.

Current debate is paying tons of $$ for a butt ugly watch. Even with Ben’s photography skills, Watch is still butt ugly.

amen.

[blacke90]

Thanks for posting and for taking pics. I think the majority people were let down bc AP hyped the launch soo much.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

OTOH, disappointed by the unoriginal piling on from other posters.

We cannot call a duck a duck? And with the way Fracois is so arrogantly telling me I have to see it in person at one of his salons, which is nowhere close to where I live, I have personally lost some love for the brand. No AD's, Salon nowhere near me, arrogance about it and a plain watch that looks like a Michael Kors Macy's special. Sorry, and that's coming from an owner of 3 AP's, at one point 5.

The only reason they even keep the 15202 around at this point is to force you to buy all their other crap at one of their salons so you get "access" to the jumbo. Its a joke.

Sorry for my anger here but his interview really pissed me off.

[Carry The Interest]

As I said in my previous post in this thread, the white dial time/date only model looks a lot better in Ben's posted photos relative to those that circulated around during SIHH. Not saying I love it or would want to purchase one, especially at the PM price-point.

I cannot say the same about the black dial time/date only model. I think the black dial as a whole does not look good at all. Perhaps the lacquer just doesn't photograph well on the darker dials.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by V25V

We cannot call a duck a duck? And with the way Fracois is so arrogantly telling me I have to see it in person at one of his salons, which is nowhere close to where I live, I have personally lost some love for the brand. No AD's, Salon nowhere near me, arrogance about it and a plain watch that looks like a Michael Kors Macy's special. Sorry, and that's coming from an owner of 3 AP's, at one point 5.



The only reason they even keep the 15202 around at this point is to force you to buy all their other crap at one of their salons so you get "access" to the jumbo. Its a joke.



Sorry for my anger here but his interview really pissed me off.

I respect your opinions, but I don’t get the anger. If you are not won over by a watch, online or in person, don’t buy it. If you don’t think it’s worth the effort to see it in person, don’t make the effort.

Personally, I am not attracted enough to the chrono or time and date models to travel very far to see them (no Boutiques or AD in Atlanta), but that doesn’t anger me.

Somewhat similarly, I didn’t have to see the current Rolex Air King to know I wasn’t interested enough to visit an AD.

But since I am traveling to Singapore this weekend, I do plan to visit the AP Boutique and check out these watches.

BTW, I bought my 15202ST from a Boutique last year. I did not have to buy other watches to “get access”.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

BTW, I bought my 15202ST from a Boutique last year. I did not have to buy other watches to “get access”.

Well, you got lucky then and kudos to you!

My anger wasn't from what they came up with, it was his arrogant defense of the watch. Had he just said, "look, it may not be for everyone but we really love it and put a lot of thought and effort into it", I would have been fine with that response. Instead, he tried to draw comparisons to the Royal Oak launch, which is nothing close to apples to apples and then told us we "had to see it in person to appreciate". It just rubbed me the wrong way as someone who lives by the "customer is always right" mentality. And just like you know the the Air King isnt of interest enough to go check one out, he is telling us the same does not apply to this model. That's comical really and just oozes clueless arrogance.

[uscmatt99]

Great write-up Ben. While none of these models are to my taste, I think the overall platform has a lot of promise. Complete dial redesign is needed, as well as the bezel. How the same manufacture puts out the best bezel on the planet on the RO and ROO, while totally botching this one, is beyond me. If they could also move the date to either 3 or 6, or even 9 or 12, it would be an improvement as well.

[yessir69]

I like them. There. I said it.

[AK797]

Many thanks Ben, the dials look too sterile for me, no warmth or character, and surprised to hear the chrono pushers are not smooth, my 44 ones are a joy, plus the movement is not as pretty as many chronos either, looks more industrial than artistic, which is another missed opp.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by mobster600

Whoever spends 30k on this is a moron

Ouch!


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[N_Architect]

Very interesting points, Ben. Thank you for sharing. Oh and I certainly miss those AP SIN boutique visits.....