The sad sad current state of Rolex at Retail

[justintime1986]

That is the joy of having one... knowing loads of persons can afford it but can't get access to it.

[Net-man]

Internet has Democratized Rolex!
It no longer the WSJ, FT or National Geographic readers, anyone who has access to smartphone can search and make a run to AD asking for SS models.



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[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by scrappy

In the watch world, every WRUW and incoming thread are photos of standard watches I can easily google on my own, minus the hairy arms and occasional bare feet

Agreed. It always seemed to me with the "WRUW" and such related posts to be nothing more than braggarts needing their ego's stroked with the expected congratulatory "pat on the back."

Sigh.

Which is why I do not, and will not ever, post such a photo.

[djgallo]

Originally Posted by Throttle

Hi there, seems like you guys dont know what really goes on behind.
It has nothing to do with Rolex.
Once the watches are distributed to ADs, Rolex cant do much when ADs go around policies set.

Despite the policies getting stricter every few years, there is always a go around.

The prices are being rigged or speculated upwards by grey market dealers.
If you are the AD and the retail is $12k, why would you not find a way to sell at $15k which grey dealers are offering?

�� have a good one fellas

Exactly ^^^^^

Originally Posted by 904VT

High-end luxury jewelry is all relative. Rolex is a luxury item no doubt, but high-end luxury in the watch industry I'm not sure. Imo though it's based on what is out on the market relatively in a particular industry, not a buyers wallet. By that definition, a Honda (no offense I own both a honda and luxury brand and appreciate both) could be high end, which it is not. Don't get me wrong I love Rolex for what they offer in the market. When it comes to luxury jewelry is Rolex at the high-end? I guess that's up to each buyer. But in my mind, I can't see Rolex being high-end (outside of the jeweled versions that are more limited) relative to where others are in the market of luxury watches. Though Rolex is trying their hardest to move up the ladder, let's see how this plays out over the long-term and thru a full market cycle. We're in a late-market global rally right now. Rolex imo has always been about mass-produced luxury. Rolex seems to be trying to position themselves somewhere between Omega and Patek today. People hate the car comparison but Rolex is more Mercedes E Class, while imo high-end would be Maybach or perhaps G 4x4^2 that approach one-offs, limited editions, and custom offerings. Same with other luxury goods. For watches that to me is Patek, ALS, Richard Mille, VC, and AP. I feel thousands of watches is a whole lot different than 800k to 1 million+ per year. Richard Mille though makes no where close to tens of thousands of watches, so if we are looking at that singular as a definition (which i do not suggest) then none of the holly trinity make the cut, just RM and some other more niche manufactures. Rolex makes a great mass-produced luxury watch though in most references. But high-end luxury jewelry imo is a Day Date TEM, not a DJ41. Which is the exception not the rule when it comes to Rolex. Just my 2 cents

It‘s easy to understand...Rolex is the KNOWN LUXURY WATCH BRAND to 99.9 % of the world population.

PP, VC, RM and everyone else making ultra luxury watches for the other .010% of the population is a drop in the bucket.....

Rolex doesn‘t have to try to move up any ladder...they are at the top of the ladder in SALES, MARKETING and SUCCESS!

[Heady Topper]

Local AD won't order anything that's not made for my model. Ridiculously painful getting anything from Rolex. Not super impressed to be honest

[Goonthree]

I agree as most of us are no where as successful as Rolex. I tend to enjoy the challenge of acquiring hot watches.

Originally Posted by watchmaker

If I owned a successful business producing circa one million expensive luxury items per year and all I heard was people bitching about how I mismanaged my company and how I should produce more I’d tell them where they can stick their opinions

Rolex owe nobody anything, and we can all rest assured they do not require our opinions on their business model. There is likely just a handful of people on the planet that have anything of any value to contribute to Rolex as a business.

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by Heady Topper

Local AD won't order anything that's not made for my model. Ridiculously painful getting anything from Rolex. Not super impressed to be honest

Agreed. Frustrating. Just Frustrating. It's not like Rolex doesn't have them in their large stock inventory in New York . . . .

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by RHIII

I agree - and I have zero empathy for individuals that just want the latest hyped up model so they can think they are “somebody”.

The people I DO feel bad for however, are the new enthusiasts that are just getting into watches. This current market state (or new norm) completely disenfranchises the [BRAND] new customer - at least with Rolex, Patek and some of AP.....

Man you nailed it. I 100% agree.

[Fallranger]

Why bother with displaying a watch you can’t order or buy anyway?


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[ZeGerman11]

Originally Posted by Fallranger

Why bother with displaying a watch you can’t order or buy anyway?


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...because, as a consumer, I can try on a watch and determine whether I actually like it prior to waiting months/years or spending some multiple of msrp.

Not sure I understand why having display only or not for sale models gets people so wound up.

Being able to try on watches has saved me from three purchases I otherwise would have made in the last year alone. ~$20k hypothetically saved because I was able to try on a watch that I like in pictures and decided I disliked in person (a Rolex, an Omega and a Blancpain).

[MTdweller]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Breitlings stacked up like tribbles seemingly multiplying more and more by the day.

Yes!!!

[Mr. Superlative]

I was at Geneva Airport last week, same situation: a stack load of exhibition watches, all without movement, only available to Try On. The SA let me try on a OF Daytona, but when I expressed an interest and asked lead times, I was told “it can take years, sir”. Knowing full well the state of affairs, I just smiled, left the store and caught my flight. It is what it is, folks. Sign of the times unfortunately.

[Mr. Superlative]

Here’s a quick pic of the piece I tried on.

[IR201]

The only way I can try on watches is to go to the tourneau or similar pre-owned section - see if i like it on the wrist and if it worth getting from a trusted seller

[EdwardC]

Showing you watches that you can't buy. Hmmm not sure if I like to be a customer of that

[Sonos]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

Just a semi-related observation....this forum and its inhabitants is not typical of most people in the world, or even the average watch guy. I own and wear regularly two of the most in demand Rolex and yet in 13 months of BLRO ownership and two months with DaytonaC, other than in watch stores I’ve had exactly one person comment on either. We’re “dressing to impress” for a very limited audience. Rolex is trying very hard to balance their supply for the long run for this limited audience. The world at large carries no angst over this.

This is so very true.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

If I owned a successful business producing circa one million expensive luxury items per year and all I heard was people bitching about how I mismanaged my company and how I should produce more I’d tell them where they can stick their opinions

Rolex owe nobody anything, and we can all rest assured they do not require our opinions on their business model. There is likely just a handful of people on the planet that have anything of any value to contribute to Rolex as a business.

Sad but true.

[eminor3]

This is exactly how Hermes does it with Birkins and Kellys. You walk in any Hermes store, and you'll see Birkins and Kellys in the display cases, but they have small signs saying "display only." Everyone walks into the store knowing they can't purchase the bags, and it is what it is. People get used to it. They talk to an Hermes SA, get put on "the list" for a Birkin and know that it's unlikely they'll receive a call anytime soon. The Hermes SA says obtaining the bags are easier with some purchase history, so people walk around the store and buy other purses, scarves, jewelry, etc. hoping those purchases will bump them up the list.

Rolex is smart, it's a bad look to walk into a Rolex store and see nothing but empty cases. Better to walk in and see a store full of Rolexes, even if you can't actually purchase half of them. You can ooh and aah at all of your favorite stainless models, and the salesperson will tell you how difficult they are to get, but it's easier with purchase history. And maybe you'll decide to buy a TT or PM before walking out the door. They're taking a page out of Hermes' book. If display models becomes the norm for Rolex boutiques, people will get used to it

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by ZeGerman11

...because, as a consumer, I can try on a watch and determine whether I actually like it prior to waiting months/years or spending some multiple of msrp.

Not sure I understand why having display only or not for sale models gets people so wound up.

Being able to try on watches has saved me from three purchases I otherwise would have made in the last year alone. ~$20k hypothetically saved because I was able to try on a watch that I like in pictures and decided I disliked in person (a Rolex, an Omega and a Blancpain).

Yes, I agree. A few months ago I got to try on the full Rose Gold GMT 2 "root beer'' and although it looks fantastic in photos and even in the case, it didn't match my skin tone and therefore did not "sing'' to me.

Ditto for the TT, white dial Sky Dweller and the champagne dial, TT Datejust 41mm - all beautiful watches but once I got to try them on, I knew they weren't for me.

[superstarmar]

To the best of my knowledge, Rolex has
always been a luxury commodity. Not
for every Tom, Dick and Harry commodity.

Do I like the game? No, but I like my assets or
should I say watches not tanking value wise either!
Nonetheless, I still wear my watch for me not for
anyone else or a status symbol either

[desertwanderer]

Originally Posted by Rori

They don't sell the ones in display but they get an order for the watch you want. No SS model is prohibitive "waiting time wise" here. a couple of months max for a BLRO for example. less than a month for Sub and I'm not a VIP customer.

I would have to say thats not the case across all of the middle east for sure. In UAE ive been waiting 9 months for a BLRN and 4 months for a CHNR. As for BLRO i was just told to forget it. Yes there are yacht masters and precious metal subs around from time to time but not the steel sports watches.

[3gh)hfdseg]

So I live in a mid-size European city whose fame is incommensurate to its size. There are two ADs in the entire country. One is in the famous capital city and is geared exclusively to the tourist trade and the other is a national chain. The former wouldn't let me order a Datejust, let alone a Submariner. The latter did agree to put me down for a Datejust, but the eta is in excess of a year. I have no longstanding relationship with an AD and would be very reluctant to do business with the grey market. What makes a grey dealer " trusted", by the way? It's not like they'll lose their Rolex concession if they get caught out selling replicas as the real thing, fake box and fake papers included. It's not like the grey dealers are at all forthcoming about the provenance of their stock, now, are they? By all accounts, there are copies floating around that fool even Rolex unless the watch is opened and subjected to close inspection. I have never seen such a replica, nor would I feel comfortable trying to access one. But, really, if, as in my case, nagging doubts would remain about the provenance of an expensive grey market watch (and thus reduced pride in ownership), what's to stop people from just getting a great fake since the verifiable real thing is almost impossible to procure?

[asiparks]

remember 5 years ago when Rolex were seen as THE luxury watch to have. I remember 5 years before that, when Rolex were looked up to as THE luxury watch to have. And 10 years before that and ten before that...
And all for all that time, they managed to be THE aspirational luxury watch without all this pissing people off nonsense. So are they any more "winning" now?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

If I owned a successful business producing circa one million expensive luxury items per year and all I heard was people bitching about how I mismanaged my company and how I should produce more I’d tell them where they can stick their opinions

Rolex owe nobody anything, and we can all rest assured they do not require our opinions on their business model. There is likely just a handful of people on the planet that have anything of any value to contribute to Rolex as a business.

Interesting.

You’re a ‘watchmaker’, right..? With one of those parts accounts... Does Rolex or any other top 10 Swiss OEMs need you to offer any value to contribute to their businesses?

Not coming at you, just a question.

[rambo99]

what's the purpose of to let walk in customers trying on those exhibition only watches? obviously the AD only intend to sell those watches to their selected customers.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Interesting.

You’re a ‘watchmaker’, right..? With one of those parts accounts... Does Rolex or any other top 10 Swiss OEMs need you to offer any value to contribute to their businesses?

Not coming at you, just a question.

I am a watchmaker, no quotation marks necessary

Do they need me personally? No

Do they need a network of external watchmakers? Absolutely.

With the volume of watches already in the market that require maintenance it would be prohibitively impractical for the higher volume brands to require all service work be returned to their self operated service centres.

Service times would be significantly longer, even for the simplest jobs and not every watchmaker wants to live in a large city like where the service centres tend to be operated - this makes staffing them an issue if you had to add an extra zero at the end of your staff headcount. Those are just two, but there are several reasons that a brand operates external service networks (and there are reasons why some brands do not - but that's a different topic altogether).

[bezler]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

To the best of my knowledge, Rolex has
always been a luxury commodity. Not
for every Tom, Dick and Harry commodity.

Do I like the game? No, but I like my assets or
should I say watches not tanking value wise either!
Nonetheless, I still wear my watch for me not for
anyone else or a status symbol either

OK

Thanks

for

sharing.

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[Chromosome]

Go to a Vacheron boutique and you will have a much nicer customer experience. The watches are also better quality and you can try them all on and buy whichever one you want!

[Harry-57]

I can't walk into an audio dealer and walk out with a Naim system. Any more than I can walk into a luxury car dealer and drive away in one. I read new road tests of various 911s that finish by informing me that the car I have just read about is already sold out. Even some fast Fords are sold out when launched. Right now, Rolex are no different. Why wouldn't they have samples on display to try out? You might actually get some of them if you are prepared to wait. Or you could buy one of hundreds already available from other sellers. Nice to be able to try one on first. Nice of the dealer to let you have a go on something before you buy it from somewhere else.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by 3gh)hfdseg

So I live in a mid-size European city whose fame is incommensurate to its size. There are two ADs in the entire country. One is in the famous capital city and is geared exclusively to the tourist trade and the other is a national chain. The former wouldn't let me order a Datejust, let alone a Submariner. The latter did agree to put me down for a Datejust, but the eta is in excess of a year. I have no longstanding relationship with an AD and would be very reluctant to do business with the grey market. What makes a grey dealer " trusted", by the way? It's not like they'll lose their Rolex concession if they get caught out selling replicas as the real thing, fake box and fake papers included. It's not like the grey dealers are at all forthcoming about the provenance of their stock, now, are they? By all accounts, there are copies floating around that fool even Rolex unless the watch is opened and subjected to close inspection. I have never seen such a replica, nor would I feel comfortable trying to access one. But, really, if, as in my case, nagging doubts would remain about the provenance of an expensive grey market watch (and thus reduced pride in ownership), what's to stop people from just getting a great fake since the verifiable real thing is almost impossible to procure?

Welcome to the forum.

Hard to believe you cannot even score a DJ. Come to the US, lots of AD’s have DJ’s sitting in the display to purchase.