The sad sad current state of Rolex at Retail

[Nikrnic]

Originally Posted by Muxi

I agree. I have all the references I want and I am happily enjoying my purchases. Life goes on. I have moved on to aspiring a different brand but I like my Rolex watches just as much as they day I got em.

Same here. After 3 yrs. of hustling > buying, selling, trading I'm all dialed in on Rolex and moved on.

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[Rori]

They don't sell the ones in display but they get an order for the watch you want. No SS model is prohibitive "waiting time wise" here. a couple of months max for a BLRO for example. less than a month for Sub and I'm not a VIP customer.

Originally Posted by 904VT

Oh they’re for sale, they’re just extremely selective when and to whom it’s sold. But a few PMs like a Day Date and I bet their stock increases 3 fold

[Meyrin]

Originally Posted by Smarties

Rolex let herself become a commodity for speculators, no longer a watch company .......

Rolex is feminine? I remember reading somewhere someone describing the experience of finding a new Rolex sports watch to buy as being like "chasing the hot, gorgeous blonde everyone wants but nobody can get". Or words to that effect...!

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

If, as a private enterprise I am quite satisfied with my production volume, variety and sales figures, I do not need unsolicited advice on how I can improve upon by business. Nobody has any legitimate argument for why I should produce a single unit more than I choose to. Especially if demand is high. It is very easy to exceed demand (bad for business) and nearly impossible to forecast and produce the exact quantity. Running at a supply deficit makes perfect sense, who wants to be sitting on a mountain of unsold stock because a forum says you should make more of X and less of Y?

Sorry, but I have to agree with this.

There are times that I wish I could still walk into a pawn shop and buy as year old sub date with full kit for $2500. But to those of you who want "value retention" you were out of luck. If you did not get a great deal on a used watch, you took a hit when you sold it.

In those days AD's struggled to sell their stock even with massive discounts. Indeed, it was not uncommon to find sports models which had been at the AD for years. It was not a sustainable model for Rolex.

Don't know how long demand will remain high. But I do know that I if I were Rolex I would be very happy with the current situation. And the constant whining about not being able to get what you want when you want would be music to my ears.

[fsprow]

Here is the reality as I see it. The demand for Rolex watches, particularly stainless steel sports models, significantly exceeds the supply Rolex has chosen to provide in the interests of their long term business. This has resulted in the market price for these watches to be significantly higher than MSRP, which the authorized dealers are required to sell at. Through a variety of mechanisms, many watches find their way from the authorized dealers into the hands of resellers who sell them at negotiated market prices. Just walk down 47th Street in NYC and you will see many examples of every Rolex watch you might wish to purchase. All are available immediately.

It’s obvious many people are disappointed that they cannot buy one of these watches at the price they wish, but that’s just the way it is. Personally I’ve found several resellers who it’s a pleasure to deal with.

Wait on a possibly imaginary AD list, buy from a reseller, wait for a recession, or go to another fine watch brand available at the price you are happy with.

[WS9D]

I think Rolex is doing what Rolex needs to do to stay relevant in the smart watch era, just as they did when quartz first became popular.

I'm curious how many people would still love Rolex if anyone and everyone had one. I suspect the craze would die and everyone would move on to the next impossible thing to get.

[Geckobros]

As an AD I would be frustrated as I would have to burden the ire of the customer. As Rolex, I would be happily counting my money.

Or maybe, AD's are happy too. I don't want to start with what could or could not be happening at the AD's.

[Muxi]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

Sorry, but I have to agree with this.

There are times that I wish I could still walk into a pawn shop and buy as year old sub date with full kit for $2500. But to those of you who want "value retention" you were out of luck. If you did not get a great deal on a used watch, you took a hit when you sold it.

In those days AD's struggled to sell their stock even with massive discounts. Indeed, it was not uncommon to find sports models which had been at the AD for years. It was not a sustainable model for Rolex.

Don't know how long demand will remain high. But I do know that I if I were Rolex I would be very happy with he current situation. And the constant whining about not being able to get what you want when you want would be music to my ears.

Indeed. There is an ocean of watches and brands to choose from. However, after you considered every other alternative but ended up still yearning for a particular Rolex reference, for whatever reason, then that is truly a crown the brand deserves.

[Bigblu10]

Rolex doesn't have to answer to us, shareholders nor anyone else. These pity party threads are non stop anymore. The situation is what it is. Nobody is dying or suffering because of it. It is just a watch after all.

[lastshotkid]

Originally Posted by htc8p

i just voted with my wallet and got speedmaster (there were 3 other customer picking up their watches same day too). let rolex do their own thing

I agree! There’s a number of equally great chronographs out there, one of which is the Speedmaster. Congrats and wear it in good health!


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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Rosex

I am not a big fish at all and have had no problem getting all the watches I want at retail with not much wait time, then again I am very good looking and charismatic.

Wait a minute. You mean I shouldn't just walk into AD and shuffle about muttering Daytona.... Daytona... while looking down at my feet.

[iliketime]

Playing hard to get will eventually bite them in the butt

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Muxi

Indeed. There is an ocean of watches and brands to choose from. However, after you considered every other alternative but ended up still yearning for a particular Rolex reference, for whatever reason, then that is truly a crown the brand deserves.

[mattmonay]

Empty case? Join list. Get impatient? Go grey. I know I did ;) It is what it is

[Patton250]

I could be wrong as I’m wrong a lot just ask my wife but I would be willing to bet that the majority of people that have little to no empathy for those complaining feel that way because they already have the Rolex pieces they want. Just saying.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by mattmonay

Empty case? Join list. Get impatient? Go grey. I know I did ;) It is what it is

I just paid 13.8 K OTD for my black dial Daytona. There’s no way I’m paying 23K for the same piece. Not a chance. I’m not saying I wouldn’t pay a little over retail for something I really wanted badly but 23K is outrageous. IMHO, of which I’m entitled to.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I just paid 13.8 K OTD for my black dial Daytona. There’s no way I’m paying 23K for the same piece. Not a chance. I’m not saying I wouldn’t pay a little over retail for something I really wanted badly but 23K is outrageous. IMHO, of which I’m entitled to.

Depends on your market. In LA and LV you're not getting that Daytona without $100k per year history and a long wait. Not worth it to me. Happy to pay an extra $10k. Means jack to me.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I could be wrong as I’m wrong a lot just ask my wife but I would be willing to bet that the majority of people that have little to no empathy for those complaining feel that way because they already have the Rolex pieces they want. Just saying.

I agree - and I have zero empathy for individuals that just want the latest hyped up model so they can think they are “somebody”.

The people I DO feel bad for however, are the new enthusiasts that are just getting into watches. This current market state (or new norm) completely disenfranchises the [BRAND] new customer - at least with Rolex, Patek and some of AP.....

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Ks6pd

I think Rolex is doing what Rolex needs to do to stay relevant in the smart watch era, just as they did when quartz first became popular.

I'm curious how many people would still love Rolex if anyone and everyone had one. I suspect the craze would die and everyone would move on to the next impossible thing to get.

Bingo.

These threads have a way of sorting out those who "get it" and those who don't.

The luxury market is VERY CLEAR about what it wants.

1) Exclusivity

2) Value Retention

Whatever it takes to follow those tenets, it must be done to stay relevant and be successful.

Evidence of this is readily apparent when visiting an AD with Rolex and multiple other brands.

The Rolex case is minimally merchandised, but has the largest crowd around it...clamoring for their opportunity to own the best! The less available, the bigger the want.

The other guys have cases FULL of watches. Breitlings stacked up like tribbles seemingly multiplying more and more by the day. How many Navitimers are there now??? Panerai's with dust on them. YES! I have personally seen dusty Panerais in an AD display. This is a busy AD with a Rolex boutique "ette" off to the side where Rolex is obliterating the other brands to the point they are dusty.

Sure some WIS here or there are frustrated because we can't get our fix as easily or quickly as we used to, so we will proudly scream...I GOT AN OMEGA INSTEAD!!!!!. But, in reality there is no big splash AGAINST Rolex for the limited distribution among the general public, there is just more want and Rolex is giving them that in spades.

Perhaps someday ubiquity will be a tenet of the luxury market and all of this will turn upside down, but in 2020 it is not and this what the market is responding to, so Rolex will continue to keep it hungry.

[oversteerdawg]

Something I find interesting is how similar this business model is with Ferrari's. You want a new 488, buy a California first and they might add you to the order list. Want something rare like a Pista? Be prepared to buy a Lusso and a California if you don't have a solidly established relationship with the dealer.

Of course there are exceptions, but this is largely how they operate and it works for them. Their business has never been better. Ferrari buyers jump through these hoops because, much like Rolex, the juice is largely worth the squeeze. The (mid-engine and limited edition) cars, like the watches, don't depreciate much in the first couple of years and you can satisfy your hobby at minimal cost once you've paid the price of entry. You can argue that the watches are even more cost-effective as they don't seem to depreciate below MSRP even in the long-term!

Like it or not, this strategy works.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Patton250

My friend a watch that cost $10,000 puts itself out of the reach of the vast majority of potential clients. Most jewelry people buy doesn’t cost anywhere near $10,000. And 10K is the entry level for Rolex watches. In my opinion it’s very much high end jewelry. Definitely robust and will last a lifetime but very high end.

Originally Posted by watchmaker

To argue that a mechanical wristwatch watch a starting price of roughly $5000 is not high end luxury for the majority of people is entirely wrong. Mass produced or otherwise. (Incidentally the brands you outline as true high end luxury produce tens of thousands of watches per year. That’s mass production too, albeit less than Rolex).

Rolex are not withholding supply of bottled water, cancer medication or mosquito nets. They sell watches that objectively speaking perform their primary duty to a lower standard than the cheapest quartz watch. This will forever categorise it as a luxury product. ‘High end’ as a moniker comes down to an individual’s wallet is.

It seems like I am splitting hairs here, but it’s important to remember that this forum is not an accurate representation of society at large.

High-end luxury jewelry is all relative. Rolex is a luxury item no doubt, but high-end luxury in the watch industry I'm not sure. Imo though it's based on what is out on the market relatively in a particular industry, not a buyers wallet. By that definition, a Honda (no offense I own both a honda and luxury brand and appreciate both) could be high end, which it is not. Don't get me wrong I love Rolex for what they offer in the market. When it comes to luxury jewelry is Rolex at the high-end? I guess that's up to each buyer. But in my mind, I can't see Rolex being high-end (outside of the jeweled versions that are more limited) relative to where others are in the market of luxury watches. Though Rolex is trying their hardest to move up the ladder, let's see how this plays out over the long-term and thru a full market cycle. We're in a late-market global rally right now. Rolex imo has always been about mass-produced luxury. Rolex seems to be trying to position themselves somewhere between Omega and Patek today. People hate the car comparison but Rolex is more Mercedes E Class, while imo high-end would be Maybach or perhaps G 4x4^2 that approach one-offs, limited editions, and custom offerings. Same with other luxury goods. For watches that to me is Patek, ALS, Richard Mille, VC, and AP. I feel thousands of watches is a whole lot different than 800k to 1 million+ per year. Richard Mille though makes no where close to tens of thousands of watches, so if we are looking at that singular as a definition (which i do not suggest) then none of the holly trinity make the cut, just RM and some other more niche manufactures. Rolex makes a great mass-produced luxury watch though in most references. But high-end luxury jewelry imo is a Day Date TEM, not a DJ41. Which is the exception not the rule when it comes to Rolex. Just my 2 cents

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I just paid 13.8 K OTD for my black dial Daytona. There’s no way I’m paying 23K for the same piece. Not a chance. I’m not saying I wouldn’t pay a little over retail for something I really wanted badly but 23K is outrageous. IMHO, of which I’m entitled to.

Not to mention that Rolex watches (and most other brands) are overpriced as it is at MSRP.

So going gray and paying twice over and then some for something like the hard-to-read Daytona? Hmpph.


I wonder how many $13,000 Daytona's are actually being sold at $27,000?

Not to me, not even were I sickeningly rich.

[Calatrava r]

I know its hard to believe but the market will cycle away from Rolex and when it does, the watches will be easily obtainable anywhere. The company knows this and is trying to move up the luxury perception ladder to still sell watches when the overall watch market is further in the tank. I suspect most luggage is slow moving stuff, yet LV can sell all their stuff briskly. Rolex wants to be there also. Thus, all the shopping center stores are being closed and who is left gets very limited deliveries compared to what they could sell. Is Rolex holding back. I doubt it. It was not too long ago a Sub typically sat for months in an AD's case and then when it did sell, it was re-ordered and replaced immediately. Now there is a list in every AD in the world.. No way to meet that demand world wide. Just not possible. Putting out watches to try on is actually quite nice given the distorted demand to supply dynamic.

[scrappy]

Rolex knows exactly what they're doing. Hate the game, not the player.

[ArtNouveau]

Just a semi-related observation....this forum and its inhabitants is not typical of most people in the world, or even the average watch guy. I own and wear regularly two of the most in demand Rolex and yet in 13 months of BLRO ownership and two months with DaytonaC, other than in watch stores I’ve had exactly one person comment on either. We’re “dressing to impress” for a very limited audience. Rolex is trying very hard to balance their supply for the long run for this limited audience. The world at large carries no angst over this.

[fsprow]

[QUOTE=214270Explorer;10306428]Not to mention that Rolex watches (and most other brands) are overpriced as it is at MSRP.

Hard to understand how they are "overpriced" if people get on waiting lists to buy them?????

[Rori]

I'm not sure I got your question but as I'm reading on this forum, it seems that the majority of ADs have empty Rolex cases where you can't even see or try some models particularly the steel ones. It's not bad to have those models at least available for the Boutiques so customers can try and feel before they decide which to order. In my case, I was crazy for a BLNR but when I tried it on I felt it's too small so I decided for something else.

Originally Posted by strafer_kid

Makes you wonder what the point is though...............it almost feels like their current Rolex 'strategy' is about to take or has already taken yet another 'leap' away from the majority of people?

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by Ks6pd

I'm curious how many people would still love Rolex if anyone and everyone had one. I suspect the craze would die and everyone would move on to the next impossible thing to get.

This is the thing though. Every dick and harry has a Rolex these days. And even here on TRF all the collections are the exact same.

BLNR, LV, SS Blue SkyD, Pepsi, Daytona. Every collection is the same old boring stuff. Its just a bunch of the mostly flipped watches.

These things are everywhere and abundant.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by peterpl

This is the thing though. Every dick and harry has a Rolex these days. And even here on TRF all the collections are the exact same.

BLNR, LV, SS Blue SkyD, Pepsi, Daytona. Every collection is the same old boring stuff. Its just a bunch of the mostly flipped watches.

These things are everywhere and abundant.

i agree. they're all great watches but when i open up threads and see people call themselves "collectors" and all they have is the 5-6 hyped rolex steel models i kind of cringe. at some point you gotta use some imagination and stop chasing the hype

[scrappy]

Originally Posted by huncho

i agree. they're all great watches but when i open up threads and see people call themselves "collectors" and all they have is the 5-6 hyped rolex steel models i kind of cringe. at some point you gotta use some imagination and stop chasing the hype

This is why I've recently lost interest in watch forums and gravitate more to sports car forums. The owner photos are often of cars with unique/creative specs that give me ideas for my own configurations.

In the watch world, every WRUW and incoming thread are photos of standard watches I can easily google on my own, minus the hairy arms and occasional bare feet