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Old 26 September 2017, 12:46 PM   #31
btinl
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Tag is real. So is the anchor, Red Chrono tag, Box and Wallet.

Ephemera is Good..
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Old 26 September 2017, 01:27 PM   #32
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Old 26 September 2017, 01:53 PM   #33
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Tag is real. So is the anchor, Red Chrono tag, Box and Wallet.

Ephemera is Good..
The green hang tag should have SUBMARINER embossed on the back side if it is original. Many of these hang tags were purchased years later by owners trying to complete their sets - often purchasing the incorrect tag which read OYSTER SWIMPRUF.

As others mentioned, the bezel insert is not correct.

One thing I did see that was interesting is the clasp blade. It appears to have the serial number etched on it which is something you find on the older watches which was usually done during a service.
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Old 26 September 2017, 02:13 PM   #34
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Nice find!

X2 on watchmakers etching the clasp. I sent my red sub off for service a few years ago, and it came back with my initials on the clasp blade.

Have you opened it up? I wonder if there are any markings inside the caseback.




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Old 26 September 2017, 02:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The green hang tag should have SUBMARINER embossed on the back side if it is original. Many of these hang tags were purchased years later by owners trying to complete their sets - often purchasing the incorrect tag which read OYSTER SWIMPRUF.

As others mentioned, the bezel insert is not correct.

One thing I did see that was interesting is the clasp blade. It appears to have the serial number etched on it which is something you find on the older watches which was usually done during a service.
Wow, good catch. I didn't see that. With that etching and the apparent bezel insert replacement, this watch must have been serviced to some extent. I know why a seller could potentially benefit by saying it wasn't serviced, but I didn't expect him to lie... Really grateful to have the forum experts here.
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Old 26 September 2017, 02:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
Nice find!

X2 on watchmakers etching the clasp. I sent my red sub off for service a few years ago, and it came back with my initials on the clasp blade.

Have you opened it up? I wonder if there are any markings inside the caseback.




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Old 26 September 2017, 02:24 PM   #37
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When it rains, it pours... An unexpected incoming!

Congratulations on the Beautiful Vintage Rolex find!

I really enjoyed the feedback from everyone. What a great community! I learn a lot every day from all of you. Thanks to all the TRF Vintage Collectors for sharing your knowledge!
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Old 26 September 2017, 04:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The green hang tag should have SUBMARINER embossed on the back side if it is original. Many of these hang tags were purchased years later by owners trying to complete their sets - often purchasing the incorrect tag which read OYSTER SWIMPRUF.



As others mentioned, the bezel insert is not correct.



One thing I did see that was interesting is the clasp blade. It appears to have the serial number etched on it which is something you find on the older watches which was usually done during a service.


Here's the embossed Submariner side.




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Old 26 September 2017, 05:22 PM   #39
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HUGE congrats on the incoming!
Weather serviced or not, that is a terrific example!

Quote:
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Thanks, I'll have it serviced but not polished. May need to have the tritium on the hands stabilized. I see a little cracking.
I would be wary with who I send to get the stabilising done.
I've never had any of my hands stabilised but I have heard of many cases where the lume in the hands ended up darkening..
I would rather risk a slight crack that may never have needed the stabilising, over darkening the lume.

Guys with experience on this matter will hopefully chime in so we can all learn better.
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Old 26 September 2017, 06:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The green hang tag should have SUBMARINER embossed on the back side if it is original. Many of these hang tags were purchased years later by owners trying to complete their sets - often purchasing the incorrect tag which read OYSTER SWIMPRUF.
Did other references also have the model on the reverse side of the tag, such as GMT, Datejust, Daytona, etc...? Or was it just the Submariners? And did Rolex continue that practice through the '70s and into the '80s?
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Old 26 September 2017, 09:50 PM   #41
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With regard to the hands darkening from stabilization, that is a by product of what the watchmaker is using to stabilize them. My watchmaker has done it for me maybe 10 times over the years and you could never tell unless you turn them upside down, and even then its tough to tell..

In the case of this watch, the hands are already darker so it matters not.

As far as the clasp goes, another question...

What is the date on the blade of the clasp? I am wondering if the bracelet is original to the watch or if the bracelet might have been replaced during a service and that Rolex engraved the SN on it.

The date will tell the story.

Based on all of the other factors, I would bet its original...
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Old 26 September 2017, 10:18 PM   #42
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Splendid find - now all you need is a MK1, Mk3, Mk5 and if you insist a MK6 to have one of each...

to say those crown guards are factory uneven - very plausible
but to say they have never been polished - I have my doubts, perhaps it was done by the dealer before selling it to the PO as it may have been in stock for a while, got some scratches, dropped, who knows... the good thing is you know the history and provenance and can pass that on eventually...
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Old 26 September 2017, 10:46 PM   #43
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With regard to the hands darkening from stabilization, that is a by product of what the watchmaker is using to stabilize them. My watchmaker has done it for me maybe 10 times over the years and you could never tell unless you turn them upside down, and even then its tough to tell..

In the case of this watch, the hands are already darker so it matters not.

As far as the clasp goes, another question...

What is the date on the blade of the clasp? I am wondering if the bracelet is original to the watch or if the bracelet might have been replaced during a service and that Rolex engraved the SN on it.

The date will tell the story.

Based on all of the other factors, I would bet its original...
Understood on the hands.
Thanks for that, and its definitely great to know. I wonder if stabilising the hands from the back would cause the hands not to age the same as the rest of the dial afterwards? Or would you think this is irrelevant?
Always nice to know.

Thanks again!
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Old 26 September 2017, 11:30 PM   #44
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The tritium itself will age naturally, I dont think you can retard the age by sealing it from the back.

Most of the time the hands are already patinaed and cracking, which is why you need to stabilize it.
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Old 27 September 2017, 12:35 AM   #45
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Did other references also have the model on the reverse side of the tag, such as GMT, Datejust, Daytona, etc...? Or was it just the Submariners? And did Rolex continue that practice through the '70s and into the '80s?
Some did, some didn't.

The practice continued until the green rectangular tags appeared along with the hologram red hang tags - changed around 1989/90 would be my best guess.
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Old 27 September 2017, 01:04 AM   #46
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Some did, some didn't.

The practice continued until the green rectangular tags appeared along with the hologram red hang tags - changed around 1989/90 would be my best guess.
That’s great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 27 September 2017, 04:58 AM   #47
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Old 27 September 2017, 05:36 AM   #48
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Splendid find - now all you need is a MK1, Mk3, Mk5 and if you insist a MK6 to have one of each...

to say those crown guards are factory uneven - very plausible
but to say they have never been polished - I have my doubts, perhaps it was done by the dealer before selling it to the PO as it may have been in stock for a while, got some scratches, dropped, who knows... the good thing is you know the history and provenance and can pass that on eventually...
I have seen many Subs with uneven crown guards. Actually, many more vintage Subs with uneven crown guards than those with symmetrical crown guards. When compared to vintage GMT crown guards, which are almost always symmetrical, I have to believe that the Subs are non-symetrical because that's just how it was back then. Not perfect and not a science.
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Old 27 September 2017, 06:05 AM   #49
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I have seen many Subs with uneven crown guards. Actually, many more vintage Subs with uneven crown guards than those with symmetrical crown guards. When compared to vintage GMT crown guards, which are almost always symmetrical, I have to believe that the Subs are non-symetrical because that's just how it was back then. Not perfect and not a science.
Agreed, I've been reviewing my collection and specifically looking at crown guards for many sample subs on the internet and reached the same conclusion. Another odd yet very interesting aspect of vintage Rolex. I also found a great thread earlier on TRF discussing this phenomenon:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=379238
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Old 30 September 2017, 03:19 AM   #50
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Agreed, I've been reviewing my collection and specifically looking at crown guards for many sample subs on the internet and reached the same conclusion. Another odd yet very interesting aspect of vintage Rolex. I also found a great thread earlier on TRF discussing this phenomenon:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=379238
x2. Yup, we can't apply today's OCD standards of machine/computer precision to vintage Rolexes ... and that's part of what makes them wonderful. The lower crown guard on my early '70s 5512, which I believe to be unpolished, is a little smaller than the top one.
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Old 30 September 2017, 01:19 PM   #51
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So your saying this an accepted fact by collectors or are non pinched & even crowns guards considered more desirable .
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Old 2 October 2017, 04:08 PM   #52
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Old 3 October 2017, 12:30 AM   #53
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Congrats Brad!
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