The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 21 January 2023, 01:14 AM   #1
francoamerican
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
Patek CPO coming per Patekaholic

Was looking for the run out (which isn’t out yet as far as I can tell) and he posted about this with “details to come”
francoamerican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 01:20 AM   #2
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 01:48 AM   #3
dauster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.

Agreed but let’s hope it’s not similar to Rolex certified preowned program - I think they had a Daytona for like 60k lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dauster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 02:29 AM   #4
Partekular
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.
Is this true? They are going to copy Rolex?
Partekular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:05 AM   #5
codecow
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Real Name: Louis
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: PP 5131R
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.
What does that mean? Once you bought a watch you can sell it whenever you want.

Are you saying that in the case a new owner sells within 3 years to someone who tries to register it; they’ll add the original purchaser to a ban list across all ADs? That’s nearly impossible to enforce and easy to side step by having someone else put their name on the papers on a new purchase.
codecow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:16 AM   #6
llngoc
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,374
It seems like all the brands are doing this to prop up the "value proposition" of their watches as the grey market is declining. It always make me feel "good" as I can justify a purchase at list when the resale is 2x list. :-) (Even though I never sold anything...)
llngoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:24 AM   #7
serenerabbit
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: burrow
Watch: VTNR
Posts: 233
I’ve personally bought pre owned Pateks from AD multiple times. Will follow the details as the information is made official but really not earth shaking news but could be wrong, eg ADs banned from reselling Patek trade ins. We’ll see.
serenerabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:37 AM   #8
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partekular View Post
Is this true? They are going to copy Rolex?
I saw this in Patekaholic's IG, and I am not sure if it is 100% true, but he tends to be fairly accurate with every year's pre-release models.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:42 AM   #9
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by codecow View Post
What does that mean? Once you bought a watch you can sell it whenever you want.

Are you saying that in the case a new owner sells within 3 years to someone who tries to register it; they’ll add the original purchaser to a ban list across all ADs? That’s nearly impossible to enforce and easy to side step by having someone else put their name on the papers on a new purchase.
Presently if I sell my 1-month-old Nautilus at an auction, Patek will know about it due to the public nature of such auctions. Patek will ask my AD to find out what's the reason why I flip a 1-month-old watch. If they are not satisfied with my explanation, they will ask my AD to cut me off as I would be deemed a flipper. If my AD does not take any action and if a lot of new watches are resold from their account, that AD would be cut off from Patek.

Regarding what constitutes flipping, I buy from 2 AD and they couldn't answer what's the holding period of Patek watches when I asked. One said 5 years and the other said cannot sell until the piece becomes a vintage watch. Now with the CPO, we will know exactly what's Patek view on the holding period. I don't ever want to lose my relationship with my AD so I toe the line very very carefully.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 03:52 AM   #10
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by llngoc View Post
It seems like all the brands are doing this to prop up the "value proposition" of their watches as the grey market is declining. It always make me feel "good" as I can justify a purchase at list when the resale is 2x list. :-) (Even though I never sold anything...)
FP Journe and Kari also have their own CPO programs. I think that's the way it is heading.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 04:33 AM   #11
bonsai-man
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.
And me, very attractive.
bonsai-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 04:44 AM   #12
llngoc
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Presently if I sell my 1-month-old Nautilus at an auction, Patek will know about it due to the public nature of such auctions. Patek will ask my AD to find out what's the reason why I flip a 1-month-old watch. If they are not satisfied with my explanation, they will ask my AD to cut me off as I would be deemed a flipper. If my AD does not take any action and if a lot of new watches are resold from their account, that AD would be cut off from Patek.

Regarding what constitutes flipping, I buy from 2 AD and they couldn't answer what's the holding period of Patek watches when I asked. One said 5 years and the other said cannot sell until the piece becomes a vintage watch. Now with the CPO, we will know exactly what's Patek view on the holding period. I don't ever want to lose my relationship with my AD so I toe the line very very carefully.
I thought it is the AD who will cut you off and not Patek per se. With that said, the AD cuts off flippers (supposedly :-)) is probably try to avoid wrath from Patek.
llngoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 04:48 AM   #13
llngoc
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
FP Journe and Kari also have their own CPO programs. I think that's the way it is heading.
Yes, it seems like all the brands which has risen in resale value for the past 2-3 years is doing similar things. But the reason I stated is probably the reason behind it. As Patek has pointed out repeatedly, it is their goal to preserve value for collector and provide CPOs at > retail price is a good way to make the collectors feel good. The real question now is: If I want to sell a watch back to Rolex or Patek for this CPO program, how much value can I get back?
llngoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 04:57 AM   #14
dauster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by llngoc View Post
I thought it is the AD who will cut you off and not Patek per se. With that said, the AD cuts off flippers (supposedly :-)) is probably try to avoid wrath from Patek.
I think it depends on the level of watch you are buying - if you are buying a green 5711 or a 5531R Patek Geneva actually cares. If you flip a 5226 Im sure only maybe the AD cares.
dauster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 05:00 AM   #15
Mbbgysam
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by llngoc View Post
I thought it is the AD who will cut you off and not Patek per se. With that said, the AD cuts off flippers (supposedly :-)) is probably try to avoid wrath from Patek.
At the end of the day, it's all through the AD, but I know of a couple cases where Patek directly told my AD not to sell to certain clients. In one case, they had a pretty good idea of why, but in the other case they had no clue. When Patek says no you listen
Mbbgysam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 06:05 AM   #16
Gebbeth
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 741
To me, the CPO program is now the de facto method of creating "buying history", and will be the gateway for any chance to get a watch new at retail.

As people have said, it's kinda what certain Porsche and Ferrari dealers are doing anyway. Want a chance at the GT3 RS? Gotta buy that used Cayman from me first.....then maybe a used Porsche 911 Turbo......then maybe get to a used GT3....before, maybe, getting to a new model GT3 RS.
Gebbeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 06:22 AM   #17
77T
2024 Pledge Member
 
77T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 40,573
Patek CPO coming per Patekaholic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gebbeth View Post
To me, the CPO program is now the de facto method of creating "buying history", and will be the gateway for any chance to get a watch new at retail.

As people have said, it's kinda what certain Porsche and Ferrari dealers are doing anyway. Want a chance at the GT3 RS? Gotta buy that used Cayman from me first.....then maybe a used Porsche 911 Turbo......then maybe get to a used GT3....before, maybe, getting to a new model GT3 RS.

Your post reminded me of a Porsche experience in 1982 when 944 orders were backlogged.

I had just one buying experience - a 911 Targa - used 1976 model.

I was way down on the waitlist - $1K deposit. But in a few months, a call - would I like a new 1983 911 Carrera? Ummm, yesss more of that please!

I literally rushed the 5 minutes to the dealer (we were only 3 miles away).

The transporter driver unloaded it - the rep gave me the keys. I test drove it home. Never brought it back. The manager wrote up the contract using my Targa as a trade-in and I returned on a Saturday to unload my stuff from the Targa and run the Carrera through the cleanup bay to take all the plastics off. (Plus brought the many $$$KK in cash to finalize)

Never got a 944 - somehow the gods smiles upon me. The path to nirvana was shorter in the ‘80’s

Thanks for rekindling that memory via your post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________


Does anyone really know what time it is?
77T is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 06:48 AM   #18
francoamerican
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gebbeth View Post
To me, the CPO program is now the de facto method of creating "buying history", and will be the gateway for any chance to get a watch new at retail.

As people have said, it's kinda what certain Porsche and Ferrari dealers are doing anyway. Want a chance at the GT3 RS? Gotta buy that used Cayman from me first.....then maybe a used Porsche 911 Turbo......then maybe get to a used GT3....before, maybe, getting to a new model GT3 RS.
a lot less likely your car dealer loses AD status (not unheard of, but still)
francoamerican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 08:46 AM   #19
Calatrava r
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex and Patek
Posts: 10,518
This if it is coming is really a shame. Many Patek models are soft on the used market and this may be a plan to boost prices. It’s a shame because many folks who love the watches can obtain the watches they want at market prices. Leave the used markets alone. Once the ADs get involved they will be allocating and bundling with new purchases.
Calatrava r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 10:13 AM   #20
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by llngoc View Post
I thought it is the AD who will cut you off and not Patek per se. With that said, the AD cuts off flippers (supposedly :-)) is probably try to avoid wrath from Patek.
Based on understanding from my AD:

The flipping is discovered by AD
AD will first request the customer to delist the sales. If customer doesn't want to delist, the AD will cut him/her off. If customer delist, then business as usual although the AD will be more selective in selling Nautilus to said customer going forward.

The flipping is discovered by Patek
Patek will ask AD for explanation why the watch was flipped. Patek then advises the AD to stop selling Patek to concerned customer at this juncture. This stop-sales-order to customer is irrevocable. If AD doesn't like that advice and refuse to cooperate to stop sales to said customer, Patek can terminate the dealership. My AD toes the Patek line very carefully and is serious/committed to the brand. I'm 100% sure they will cut any errant VIP off to maintain the Patek dealership, hence to prevent that from happening, my AD always advise customers to not flip their Pateks because they also value their customers.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 10:21 AM   #21
llngoc
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Based on understanding from my AD:

The flipping is discovered by AD
AD will first request the customer to delist the sales. If customer doesn't want to delist, the AD will cut him/her off. If customer delist, then business as usual although the AD will be more selective in selling Nautilus to said customer going forward.

The flipping is discovered by Patek
Patek will ask AD for explanation why the watch was flipped. Patek then advises the AD to stop selling Patek to concerned customer at this juncture. This stop-sales-order to customer is irrevocable. If AD doesn't like that advice and refuse to cooperate to stop sales to said customer, Patek can terminate the dealership. My AD toes the Patek line very carefully and is serious/committed to the brand.
Yes, this is consistent with what my AD implied to me too. My AD was even concerned as a certain "rare" Aquanaut (not really that rare) was missing in the FedEx system on route to me and his concern was less of the financial loss but more if it popped up in the grey market.
llngoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 08:40 PM   #22
ts3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatrava r View Post
This if it is coming is really a shame. Many Patek models are soft on the used market and this may be a plan to boost prices. It’s a shame because many folks who love the watches can obtain the watches they want at market prices. Leave the used markets alone. Once the ADs get involved they will be allocating and bundling with new purchases.
My feeling as well. The only plus is that folks can buy preowned with some warranty from Patek. But at what price(s)? Everything else is a negative.
ts3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2023, 10:54 PM   #23
scurfa
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 1,237
I think the companies have been pushed into this and the reason is watch theft, stolen watches will find their way back on the market sometimes with new cards, papers and even fake shop receipts, you have no way of checking until the watch is sent for servicing, I think they are starting to see this happen more and more now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Instagram @scurfawatches
scurfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 01:20 AM   #24
raclaims
"TRF" Member
 
raclaims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,584
What do you mean by “delist”?
raclaims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 01:45 AM   #25
OpenSix
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: California
Posts: 23
I don’t think the goal is to boost used prices but to make selling a watch back to the AD easier. This will bring more liquidity to new watch buyers. Selling a watch is a pain and I’m sure we all have watches in our collections we would have sold if it were easier.
OpenSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 02:19 AM   #26
Mbbgysam
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by raclaims View Post
What do you mean by “delist”?
I think he means if the watch was listed on Chrono24, eBay, or some other channel, they'd be asked to remove the listing.
Mbbgysam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 03:03 AM   #27
Armis
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
Glad to know Patek now officially endorses a holding period (3 years?) for their watches before allowing to flip. This also means I can now buy discontinued pieces which come with Patek warranty and this is very attractive for buyers like me.
But are you okay with PP (or other brands) charging many multiples above the original price? For select pieces I can understand, but as a general practice it is a turn off. But I guess there must be buyers at these levels.
Armis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 03:13 AM   #28
codecow
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Real Name: Louis
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: PP 5131R
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armis View Post
But are you okay with PP (or other brands) charging many multiples above the original price? For select pieces I can understand, but as a general practice it is a turn off. But I guess there must be buyers at these levels.
I’d expect the price to be market price + in house service/CPO upcharge + brick and mortar upcharge. Otherwise they’re devaluing the brand. Same would go for any of the CPO with used trading above MSRP.
codecow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 03:20 AM   #29
Armis
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by codecow View Post
I’d expect the price to be market price + in house service/CPO upcharge + brick and mortar upcharge. Otherwise they’re devaluing the brand. Same would go for any of the CPO with used trading above MSRP.
Ah, okay I can understand that logic then. Thanks.
Armis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2023, 03:21 AM   #30
Ichiran
2024 Pledge Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armis View Post
But are you okay with PP (or other brands) charging many multiples above the original price? For select pieces I can understand, but as a general practice it is a turn off. But I guess there must be buyers at these levels.
The CPO is just another sales outlet for consumers. Buyers who don't think the CPO make sense can simply buy from the traditional dealers. We do not know how the CPO will price their watches yet but some like the peace of mind, Patek servicing and new warranty on older discontinued complicated watches. This group will be the target.
Ichiran is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.