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View Poll Results: Do you prefer Geneva Seal Or Patk? | |||
I Prefer the Geneva Seal | 106 | 45.49% | |
I Prefer the Patek Seal | 50 | 21.46% | |
No Preference | 77 | 33.05% | |
Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll |
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24 May 2016, 01:21 PM | #31 |
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Regardless of seal, after the first service they all fall under the PP seal quality....therefore it doesn't matter IMO
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24 May 2016, 01:31 PM | #32 |
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Perhaps the Geneva seal will come to represent pre Thierry Patek, I could see some impact on collectibility depending on how Thierry manages the company.
On a personal note I liked a third party being involved in the process, even if they were under Pateks thumb.
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24 May 2016, 03:42 PM | #33 |
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18 March 2019, 04:19 AM | #34 |
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Have opinions evolved on this topic?
Is the 5711 geneva seal more or less valuable that PP seal in your opinions? |
18 March 2019, 05:14 AM | #35 |
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This is the funniest post. If you were discussing a Rolex Submariner or Daytona the slightest variation, whether it was the flat 4 16610LV or the floating Cosmograph 16520, or the Rail Dial 1665 Sea Dweller vs. the regular Great White, could make huge differences in the price.
Granted, those are dial side, but it seems that with Patek, minor variations like this seal issue are met with a shrug. Personally, I think that the Geneva seal 5711 should be worth 50% more than the PP seal example of the same reference, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. |
18 March 2019, 05:32 AM | #36 |
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Exactly, fully agree with you. That why I revived this discussion. I would not be surprised if some would pay more for a recent PP seal than an older geneva seal in similar condition. With time, I would expect a price difference to develop, but the market seems oblivious for now.
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18 March 2019, 06:21 AM | #37 |
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I do not really care but if I did, I would want an outside agency certifying everything.
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18 March 2019, 09:27 AM | #38 |
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The Geneva Seal requires hand finishing.
Patek no longer hand-finishes its lower and mid-level watches, as proven by machine marks (vertical lines) on the anglage of these watches. There is a thread on this forum with pictures showing these non-hand finished movements. If that matters, then it absolutely matters. If it doesn't (the movements still look great done by machine, you can really only tell with a loupe), then it doesn't matter. That's the story, or part of it. |
18 March 2019, 10:04 AM | #39 | |||
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18 March 2019, 10:33 AM | #40 | |
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Quote:
I could obviously swap my fairly recent 5711 into a pre 2010 piece but I would lose my name on the paperwork which I tend to value as well. |
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19 March 2019, 01:33 AM | #41 |
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I didn't think the Geneva seal has anything to do with reliability and service recall rate but is simply a set of measures in the finishing quality and timing rate results. Timing rate results may give a secondary indication of long-term reliability simply because it says "this mechanism is working well" and for that, mechanical tolerances should be tighter. correct me if i'm off the mark.
Beyond that- because we're even having this discussion already means that, as collectors, we're tuned into the fine details of the hallmark and just like a "red-line" sub commands a premium so the potential lies for this hallmark. Given all things equal I believe there is a slight edge to the Geneva seal because all that was said before (history, 3rd party, etc). And I say, slight. In the end i'm really looking for the nicest model at the best price and don't think too much about the seal when buying. Of course, I have a 5110 with a Geneva mark so I do think about it. |
19 March 2019, 03:03 AM | #42 |
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Since the Patek seal goes above and beyond the Geneva seal the issues being discussed are much more closely aligned with an individuals view on whether independent verification is preferable to in house. Personally I am very happy with either and can say under a powerful loupe the 240 movements in my Geneva seal piece and my Patek seal piece appear identical.
The quality of finishing does definitely improve as you go up to the high grand complications. |
19 March 2019, 03:24 AM | #43 |
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Geneva seal forces hand finishing as was pointed out already. That matters to me and that is why I would prefer Geneva seal if possible, but clearly with the modern watches you get what you get and you don't get upset ;)
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19 March 2019, 04:33 AM | #44 |
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Glad to see this thread resarected. Still enjoying my Geneva seal 5146g slate dial.
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19 March 2019, 06:47 AM | #45 |
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Geneva seal, though keep in mind this is also back in time when Patek seemed to be providing more bridges to really show off the hand-work. Miss those days with Francine, David... the nice classic styling of previous NYC office too.
Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.
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23 March 2019, 03:17 PM | #46 |
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Geneva seal for me. The good o days
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26 March 2019, 12:16 PM | #47 |
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I can take both anytime if have chance to acquire them. Best is that they are sealed in Patek travel box :)
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26 March 2019, 12:37 PM | #48 |
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Geneva if you can pick
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13 August 2019, 10:18 PM | #49 |
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When any manufacturer does its own quality control your going to inferior product. Though My father had a tool and die company for 50 years. He WAS quality control nothing left his shop unless it was the best he could make!!! But the question is was his best as good as other tool and die companies??
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14 August 2019, 02:27 AM | #50 |
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PP seal a class of their own
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14 August 2019, 06:05 AM | #51 |
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As principle I prefer Geneva seal, but it would not be a deal breaker and I would not pay much more for it.
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14 August 2019, 07:00 AM | #52 |
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100% Patek seal.
1. Patek has committed to meeting all the Geneva standards and then exceeding them...the 29-535 is a great example in the 5170, 5172, and the spectacular 5370. 2. Patek's support of the Geneva seal was a double edge sword as when other manufacturers adopted the seal they gained Patek's halo. Cartier specifically built a go to market plan around this. For me it comes down to ... if you don't trust Patek to meet and focus on exceeding the Geneva standard then don't extend that trust to buy their watch. |
14 August 2019, 07:13 AM | #53 |
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Lange seem to do pretty well without the Geneva Seal.
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14 August 2019, 12:44 PM | #54 |
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I don't care, but I will admit, if one is to use a "seal" I'd rather it be one granted by a third party. That's the whole point behind it.
Patek can do away with the Patek seal and it won't make a difference because the Patek seal just means "made by Patek" to me. |
21 August 2019, 12:17 AM | #55 |
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I wonder what the math looks like if you take the total number of watchmakers Patek has working on new watches. Then calculate the net hours worked on new watches then divide by number of watches produced. Can't be that many hours per watch...
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21 August 2019, 12:30 AM | #56 | |
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Quote:
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21 August 2019, 05:01 AM | #57 |
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100%, which means the time spent on the "normal" Patek 3 handers is probably very very small....
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22 August 2019, 01:59 AM | #58 |
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I prefer the Geneva seal bec it was a third party judging. I also like the older model nautiluses bec they screws and not pins. However, there are nautiluses with screws that are not Geneva seals.
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22 August 2019, 04:33 AM | #59 |
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Whose idea was it to use pins anyway?
That's a very barbarian method. |
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