Bubble Backs

[Nar987]

What makes a bubble back a bombay case?
I just have no idea so I thought I'd ask my friends here. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[CrownMe]

Never heard of bombay. Then again I've never looked into bubble backs. Too small for my wrist

[powerfunk]

The Bombé aka Bombay lugs are the differentiating factor. Cool, smooth lugs.

Edit: Link http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=124793

[joe100]

Bombe is the term I've heard in most circles

[adam78]

Here is my semi-bubbleback ref. 6018 with very rare gilt NA 630 movement.

[Ue11]

Always wondered about this movement I have on a 6018. Is it gilt? Could you tell me more about the gilt movement!

[R.W.T.]

I guess I am the self appointed keeper of the gilt movement information. I learned of these movements from a Certified Rolex Watchmaker and former AD who pointed out a couple of them that came through his on premise bench in the 80's. Of course they are very rare and when I read in the Dowling and Hess book first edition that Rolex did not make gilt movements I had to beg to differ as I knew I had seen them with my own eyes.

Years later, a watch came through that same watchmaker's shop from its original owner, a 1954 6202 Turn O Graph with original box, papers AND service papers with the movement serial numbers on them from Rolex NY 1966. No doubt the movement was original to the watch and of course oddly enough a full gilt 645 calibre. I negotiated with the owner and bought the watch. Still no one would concur with me that these movements were gilt. At that time this was the only known gilt movement in a sports watch. All others even that I had personally seen were in typical time only oysters or perpetual models with calendar.




Subsequently another 6202 with the same movement a few serial numbers away from this one surfaced at a California dealer on Ebay.

Still no one would allow that this was possible. Everything from "they are brass" to "we talked to a guy at Rolex Bexley who said they made brass ones early on" (645 in 54 was not early on for that calibre) to "someone washed all the nickel off"...all manner of denial.

I came across a 6090 with another 645 gilt, bought it and posted it on TZ along with my 6202 to show 2 examples of the same movement...and then Maurix came through and posted his 6090 a few hundred serial numbers away..with the same movement...finally I was making some headway...you can say no to one, maybe two but to four...It was later confirmed to JD by RLX that some were made this way.

We don't know why, how many or wherefore...only that they do show up occasionally.

Typically they are top grade...they may not be
"chronometers" as in the case of my 6202 but they are top grade manufacture. The 645 gilt is 24 jewel with SEVEN jewels in the autowind. Low grades of the 645 have none, some have 2. These have SEVEN, and they are FACTORY not added to repair damage from lack of lubrication. It is stated on the rotor cover.




I purchased the watch Adam has posted in an auction that he led me to in order to look at another watch for him. I have had to part with a few things lately and we negotiated so that he would own the 6018. Until yesterday when I saw your post that was the first and ONLY known gilt 630 NA in existence. Now we know of 2. It's extremely unique. 645 I have seen a few...630...2. Until yesterday 1.



While yours has seen a few more cleanings and therefore its original finish is mostly gone...it is still undoubtedly one of the gilt NA's. You will note the unique layout of the nomenclature on the rotor weight and note the high jewel count is spelled right out on the rotor cover. No mistaking. Your watch is in my opinion tres rare.
I am curious how close in serial range it falls to Adam's watch.

Here is his base movement in Adam's watch after I serviced it initially.

Notably even the wheels in his autowind were plated pink gold, even the wig wag..was pink gold.

This was never to be seen by the owner or the public. Sometimes people do things because they can...it is pride of workmanship. These were not even ordinary ROLEX movements but a cut above. It almost takes a watchmaker to appreciate the extra effort.

My mentor told me when he showed me the very first one. "this is for the watchmaker" "this is something never really meant to be seen by anyone but us".

I became a watchmaker :-)

[Ue11]

R.W.T. Thanks so much for responding to my post. I am traveling and don't have the Bombė serial number, but will send it to you. A photo of the dial is below. Too bad my watch was cleaned so much. The movement in Adam's watch is amazing.

Thanks again for the fantastic information.

[NukeMan]

R.W.T - that is one amazing 6202 that you've got, congratulations! Thanks also for the lesson on gilt movements.

[Ue11]

RWT and Adam - Thanks for all of the education about the 6018 with the gilt movement. The serial number of the watch has been partially polished off. The numbers that can be read seem to be the last digits 4616. With a little research, we might be able to guess the first digits. The numbers on the movement are 46236 and N94284. How do these compare with yours? After looking at the movement, the gold plating looks in excellent shape. The watchmaker just thinks there is tarnish on the rotor.

Fun detective work!

Thanks.

[anthonywong]

let me know if interst to see the movement!

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I guess I am the self appointed keeper of the gilt movement information. I learned of these movements from a Certified Rolex Watchmaker and former AD who pointed out a couple of them that came through his on premise bench in the 80's. Of course they are very rare and when I read in the Dowling and Hess book first edition that Rolex did not make gilt movements I had to beg to differ as I knew I had seen them with my own eyes.

Years later, a watch came through that same watchmaker's shop from its original owner, a 1954 6202 Turn O Graph with original box, papers AND service papers with the movement serial numbers on them from Rolex NY 1966. No doubt the movement was original to the watch and of course oddly enough a full gilt 645 calibre. I negotiated with the owner and bought the watch. Still no one would concur with me that these movements were gilt. At that time this was the only known gilt movement in a sports watch. All others even that I had personally seen were in typical time only oysters or perpetual models with calendar.




Subsequently another 6202 with the same movement a few serial numbers away from this one surfaced at a California dealer on Ebay.

Still no one would allow that this was possible. Everything from "they are brass" to "we talked to a guy at Rolex Bexley who said they made brass ones early on" (645 in 54 was not early on for that calibre) to "someone washed all the nickel off"...all manner of denial.

I came across a 6090 with another 645 gilt, bought it and posted it on TZ along with my 6202 to show 2 examples of the same movement...and then Maurix came through and posted his 6090 a few hundred serial numbers away..with the same movement...finally I was making some headway...you can say no to one, maybe two but to four...It was later confirmed to JD by RLX that some were made this way.

We don't know why, how many or wherefore...only that they do show up occasionally.

Typically they are top grade...they may not be
"chronometers" as in the case of my 6202 but they are top grade manufacture. The 645 gilt is 24 jewel with SEVEN jewels in the autowind. Low grades of the 645 have none, some have 2. These have SEVEN, and they are FACTORY not added to repair damage from lack of lubrication. It is stated on the rotor cover.




I purchased the watch Adam has posted in an auction that he led me to in order to look at another watch for him. I have had to part with a few things lately and we negotiated so that he would own the 6018. Until yesterday when I saw your post that was the first and ONLY known gilt 630 NA in existence. Now we know of 2. It's extremely unique. 645 I have seen a few...630...2. Until yesterday 1.



While yours has seen a few more cleanings and therefore its original finish is mostly gone...it is still undoubtedly one of the gilt NA's. You will note the unique layout of the nomenclature on the rotor weight and note the high jewel count is spelled right out on the rotor cover. No mistaking. Your watch is in my opinion tres rare.
I am curious how close in serial range it falls to Adam's watch.

Here is his base movement in Adam's watch after I serviced it initially.

Notably even the wheels in his autowind were plated pink gold, even the wig wag..was pink gold.

This was never to be seen by the owner or the public. Sometimes people do things because they can...it is pride of workmanship. These were not even ordinary ROLEX movements but a cut above. It almost takes a watchmaker to appreciate the extra effort.

My mentor told me when he showed me the very first one. "this is for the watchmaker" "this is something never really meant to be seen by anyone but us".

I became a watchmaker :-)

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by anthonywong

let me know if interst to see the movement!

YES! Please show the rose gilt movement ! ! !

I have only an auto wind unit photographed but I have seen the entire Dj 745 mvt.

No one here has ever seen most likely!

This will be great! Can you also remove he autowind to show the main movement part?

[Mike Wood]

TommyT, Guardian of the Noble Order of the Gilded Movement!!

(The previously sceptical-)

MW

[anthonywong]

Sorry I can't take off the auto winder.OTE=R.W.T.;6471816]YES! Please show the rose gilt movement ! ! !

I have only an auto wind unit photographed but I have seen the entire Dj 745 mvt.

No one here has ever seen most likely!

This will be great! Can you also remove he autowind to show the main movement part?[/QUOTE]

[anthonywong]

More picture E=anthonywong;6473373]Sorry I can't take off the auto winder.OTE=R.W.T.;6471816]YES! Please show the rose gilt movement ! ! !

I have only an auto wind unit photographed but I have seen the entire Dj 745 mvt.

No one here has ever seen most likely!

This will be great! Can you also remove he autowind to show the main movement part?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[anthonywong]

Please let me know if you know anything about it, I had been trying to find out more information from all Rolex collectors,so far not. Clue,you know the feeling!

[anthonywong]

I will post more pictures on a different angle,thanks

[R.W.T.]

This is 745 no?

Yes this identical to my friend's here in town.

Same watch I believe.

[anthonywong]

Pictures

[anthonywong]

movement

[anthonywong]

Originally Posted by anthonywong

movement

Movement and case back,it's a double model #

[R.W.T.]

Thank you Anthony for posting this. It furthers my assertion on the gilt movements. I have never had a rose gilt accessible to photograph and this is a great beautiful example...stunning condition on that movement. Steve's watch is a 6105 if memory serves.

So Mike Wood :-) there's rose gold too!

[anthonywong]

This is the only rose gold gilt movement I know that excited,super rare! no one have any idea ,most people will think it's a fake movement! I am glad that I can share with someone who have the similar movement,

[R.W.T.]

Here is the auto unit to my friend Steve's 745. Same as yours.

[watchcrank]

Beauties, love the gilt movement and that 6202 is to die for T.

[anthonywong]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Here is the auto unit to my friend Steve's 745. Same as yours.

Is that a rose gold gilt ? Do you know what year is the watch!

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by anthonywong

Is that a rose gold gilt ? Do you know what year is the watch!

It's from an early-mid 50's date just.

Yes rose gold gilt.

[Fredrik]

How do you gild something with rose gold?
If you electroplate you by definition will get a 24ct thin layer and I was under the impression that the thin leaf gold you use for gilding is also 24ct. The gold leaf I have bought for gilding have always been pure.

[anthonywong]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

How do you gild something with rose gold?
If you electroplate you by definition will get a 24ct thin layer and I was under the impression that the thin leaf gold you use for gilding is also 24ct. The gold leaf I have bought for gilding have always been pure.

Not too sure how they did it,but it's rare to use in a watch movement!

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

How do you gild something with rose gold?
If you electroplate you by definition will get a 24ct thin layer and I was under the impression that the thin leaf gold you use for gilding is also 24ct. The gold leaf I have bought for gilding have always been pure.

Parts are brass.

It's plated. I would bet 24k because of the color.

It's the same process as they do with nickel on the other movements only in Gold.