Insuring Six Figure Watches

[WatchTodd]

Good point I have provided them the appraisals in order to get quotes on increasing the insured value which is indicated as prohibitive that said I will confirm that they are leased insured up to the original purchase price thank you for the suggestion


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[Arthur Daley]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I might be wrong but I was under the impression you need to keep the insurance company appraised of the value. For instance if you insure a 5711 at MSRP you are clearly underinsured and the insurance company might have legitimate grounds for not paying out since the risk of a targeted burglary at your house is potentially much higher.

I'm with JM and they've never mentioned this. I'd imagine it's in their best interest to insure for purchased value, and to limit payout to same- which I've assumed they're doing. Maybe I'll dig in some day to ask.

I also just looked into safes again (moving houses) and realized I overstated price of safes. They're cheaper than I recall.... appears that a very high quality small one can be had for as little as a couple of grand. Best "peace of mind" investment I've ever made... more so than insurance.

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[JR16]

Originally Posted by Arthur Daley

I'm with JM and they've never mentioned this. I'd imagine it's in their best interest to insure for purchased value, and to limit payout to same- which I've assumed they're doing. Maybe I'll dig in some day to ask.

I also just looked into safes again (moving houses) and realized I overstated price of safes. They're cheaper than I recall.... appears that a very high quality small one can be had for as little as a couple of grand. Best "peace of mind" investment I've ever made... more so than insurance.

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Any specific brands you’d recommend ? Don’t really have a brick and mortar safe store around me .


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[Arthur Daley]

Originally Posted by JR16

Any specific brands you’d recommend ? Don’t really have a brick and mortar safe store around me .


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Many years ago, when I lived in TX, I bought from a company called Houston Safe & Lock. The brand I have is "Original" but there are many other "hardcore" brands - you'll see them on their website. This was also a store that had a lineup of "pretty" safes out back to demonstrate how useless many of these are at protecting their valuables inside. These safes were all broken into to show you their low quality hinges, panels etc.

I can't vouch for all the brands they show - but you'll see different ratings for the safes. Like being able to withstand several hours of chemical fires. Explosions and the like.

This particular company was recommended by a contact at the FBI - who reinforced: "buy the seller". Not sure where you are, but I suspect local law enforcement may be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck!

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[JR16]

Originally Posted by Arthur Daley

Many years ago, when I lived in TX, I bought from a company called Houston Safe & Lock. The brand I have is "Original" but there are many other "hardcore" brands - you'll see them on their website. This was also a store that had a lineup of "pretty" safes out back to demonstrate how useless many of these are at protecting their valuables inside. These safes were all broken into to show you their low quality hinges, panels etc.

I can't vouch for all the brands they show - but you'll see different ratings for the safes. Like being able to withstand several hours of chemical fires. Explosions and the like.

This particular company was recommended by a contact at the FBI - who reinforced: "buy the seller". Not sure where you are, but I suspect local law enforcement may be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck!

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Thanks, appreciate the info.
When you say “buy the seller”, is it so that whoever installs your safe doesn’t come back later to break into it ?


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[Arthur Daley]

Originally Posted by JR16

Thanks, appreciate the info.
When you say “buy the seller”, is it so that whoever installs your safe doesn’t come back later to break into it ?


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Exactly. It was a point my FBI contact brought up. That said, I'd imagine if you find a large retailer that's been doing this for a while, you'd probably be OK.

Also, these things are HEAVY. Even small ones. Mine was delivered by 3 guys using a dolly. They had to put down ramps to get the safe into the house, and put down cardboard to protect the flooring as they rolled the dolly. Took a lot of patience to get the dolly into a tight nook, and then I had the option of drilling into the floor to secure the safe. Because mine was heavy and an absolute b##$% to get into position, I opted to forego the drilling. But it's an option.

It gets even trickier if the safe is to be installed above the ground floor. That involved a makeshift hoist that they bring, unless you have an elevator. Bottom line: finding someone reputable who knows what they're doing is important.

Also, my safe came standard with dials. I asked them to replace those with a digital keyboard. Also takes know-how.

All this is simple for someone who knows what they're doing. But that won't be the local sporting goods retailer..... if you catch my drift. Hence: buy the seller, for peace of mind and expertise.

Again - great safes are not expensive. Certainly not vs Patek. But the peace of mind they bring is great. And - they serve to lower your insurance premiums. The insurance company knows the difference between a good and bad safe; security ratings are key.

Good luck!

PS. Final thought: a good safe company will also offer a "site survey". They'll come out to survey your house and advise on where to place the safe. They'll recommend putting it somewhere inconspicuous. Not a study, or master closet (as many do), but hidden out of sight. Another reason why a "pretty" (or painted) one is fairly pointless. Picking a good location isn't as easy as I thought: got to balance ease of access w/ security.

Good luck!

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Arthur Daley

Exactly. It was a point my FBI contact brought up. That said, I'd imagine if you find a large retailer that's been doing this for a while, you'd probably be OK.

Also, these things are HEAVY. Even small ones. Mine was delivered by 3 guys using a dolly. They had to put down ramps to get the safe into the house, and put down cardboard to protect the flooring as they rolled the dolly. Took a lot of patience to get the dolly into a tight nook, and then I had the option of drilling into the floor to secure the safe. Because mine was heavy and an absolute b##$% to get into position, I opted to forego the drilling. But it's an option.

It gets even trickier if the safe is to be installed above the ground floor. That involved a makeshift hoist that they bring, unless you have an elevator. Bottom line: finding someone reputable who knows what they're doing is important.

Also, my safe came standard with dials. I asked them to replace those with a digital keyboard. Also takes know-how.

All this is simple for someone who knows what they're doing. But that won't be the local sporting goods retailer..... if you catch my drift. Hence: buy the seller, for peace of mind and expertise.

Again - great safes are not expensive. Certainly not vs Patek. But the peace of mind they bring is great. And - they serve to lower your insurance premiums. The insurance company knows the difference between a good and bad safe; security ratings are key.

Good luck!

PS. Final thought: a good safe company will also offer a "site survey". They'll come out to survey your house and advise on where to place the safe. They'll recommend putting it somewhere inconspicuous. Not a study, or master closet (as many do), but hidden out of sight. Another reason why a "pretty" (or painted) one is fairly pointless. Picking a good location isn't as easy as I thought: got to balance ease of access w/ security.

Good luck!

Great advice - much appreciated!


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[Jackflash]

Here in Switzerland the police advise to put a safe where it can easily be seen rather than hiding it. The reason being that thieves are typically opportunistic and will simply move onto the next house if they see a sturdy professional safe. They’ll know cash and jewellery is unlikely to be laying around. Hiding a safe also avoids them destroying your home looking for valuables only to then find your safe.

Having said that, violent burglaries are probably less of a concern here.


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

[drlvegas]

Nationwide private client gives you up to 50% above insured value for market value.

I haven't ever had a claim, so can't vouch for how they would actually pay.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by drlvegas

Nationwide private client gives you up to 50% above insured value for market value.

I haven't ever had a claim, so can't vouch for how they would actually pay.

These clauses are usually to cover you for rises between renewals, at renewal you need to appraise them of the increase. I’m sure polices differ but worth checking the small print.

[SBC1986]

USAA is pretty good

[edyu]

Is insurance mostly for when you are mugged or your watch is stolen while traveling?

[Arthur Daley]

For me, insurance is mostly in case of a break-in, and if I were to be mugged.

An update on safes, as I just spoke to the company I bought from years ago.

In the US, residential grade burglary grade safes carry a TL30 rating. While the commercial grade ones carry TL30x6. The difference is that in a TL30 the front door is heavily reinforced, while the other 5 sides are less thick/strong. In the x6 model, all sides are reinforced. Some say a x6 is about twice as strong as a regular TL30.

There is a substantial weight difference. A small knee height TL30x6 can weigh 800lbs. A waist height version is about 2000lbs, and a shoulder height one 3000lbs. A TL30 will weigh about 1/3 of that. Due to their weight, these safes are typically installed on ground floors.

A TL30x6 will typically have a 6+ inch thick front door, and 3+ inch sides. And be made of steel/concrete, as far as I can tell.

Pricing wise - a small knee-high safe might be USD 5K. A waist heigh model somewhere around 10-12K.

In my opinion, the biggest benefit to a TL30x6 is not the discount on jewelry insurance. It's the peace of mind they afford re: a casual burglar or a potential fire. Neither will be able to get at the contents.

Maybe someone will find this helpful.

Oh, and as for brands recommended by professionals, I see Original and Amsec or American Security as often recommended on the TL30x6. I believe, but am not 100% sure, that Original is made in China, while the latter is made in the USA.

[subtona]

Hodinkee. I believe they are underwritten by Chubb.

Process can be done on line very easy.

[rolexero]

Originally Posted by subtona

Hodinkee. I believe they are underwritten by Chubb.

Process can be done on line very easy.

Another vote for Hodinkee, who are undrewritten by Chubb. Strangely, they do not ask about serial numbers or any specific identifying info about the watch when setting up coverage. They are super easy to set up, although probably pricier than other options.

[Doc Olives]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crystal

USAA won’t insure a watch less than 5 years old for more than 5% of the MSRP even with a market appraisal.

Very different experience with USAA here. Jewelry rider that ends up being 1.1% annually per watch. All done online and no separate appraisal needed for anything under $25k.

[Doc Olives]

Originally Posted by rolexero

Another vote for Hodinkee, who are undrewritten by Chubb. Strangely, they do not ask about serial numbers or any specific identifying info about the watch when setting up coverage. They are super easy to set up, although probably pricier than other options.

I know they don’t advertise it exactly this way, but for the people using Hodinkee, what percentage (roughly) is it costing you per year in premiums? Thanks ��

[Arthur Daley]

Chubb is considered the Rolls Royce of insurance. So, if Hodinkee is underwritten by Chubb it's surely good.... and.... expensive. You get what you pay for, I suppose.

My house is with Chubb. My watches are with JM. Maybe I'll go direct to Chubb one day, or via Hodinkee. But so far, JM have been fine. That said, I've had no claims and I have to work a bit harder to set up coverage - receipts/appraisals, and photos of the items with their app. Easy enough, but arguably more involved than Hodinkee. I did also get a discount due to the type of safe they're stored in.

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[Pimpsy]

Originally Posted by Arthur Daley

Chubb is considered the Rolls Royce of insurance. So, if Hodinkee is underwritten by Chubb it's surely good.... and.... expensive. You get what you pay for, I suppose.

My house is with Chubb. My watches are with JM. Maybe I'll go direct to Chubb one day, or via Hodinkee. But so far, JM have been fine. That said, I've had no claims and I have to work a bit harder to set up coverage - receipts/appraisals, and photos of the items with their app. Easy enough, but arguably more involved than Hodinkee. I did also get a discount due to the type of safe they're stored in.

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I've always used JM but it's hard to say how good they are until a claim is made. They are good at taking the premiums, lol, and pleasant enough to deal with but I do have an issue with them potentially sourcing a replacement watch if something should happen to one of mine. I don't want an insurance company buying my replacement watch so I am switching to Hodinkee. It's more expensive but if the worst should come to pass, they will simply cut a check. That's a huge difference and worth the extra $ IMO.

[Pimpsy]

Originally Posted by rolexero

Another vote for Hodinkee, who are undrewritten by Chubb. Strangely, they do not ask about serial numbers or any specific identifying info about the watch when setting up coverage. They are super easy to set up, although probably pricier than other options.

I had the same thought; they asked for so little info it was really surprising.

They are probably large enough though to have enough data regarding watch claims to just build the risk into the premium and leave it at that.

[np2016]

I have jewelers mutual currently but going to switch to hokindee through chubb when my contract expires in less than 30 days. Hokindee has zero deductibles and the price was very similar to jewelers mutual. Hell right now jewelers mutual has a 1k deductible for my 5711 and a $500 deductible each for my 5167a and Daytona. Plus hokindee writes you the check versus jewelers mutual who writes the check to an AD.

[Arthur Daley]

Before I bought I researched JM, and heard good things re: claims. I've heard virtually nothing about Hodinkee other than folks raving about how easy it is to set up coverage. Does anyone have experience with actual claims? Whether JM or Hodinkee?

Would be good to hear from Patek owners w/ experience beyond writing checks.

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