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Flaxmoore · 13 April 2009, 03:44 AM

I admit I'm a relative newcomer at this, but something's bothering me.

The smoothness of sweep for a watch second hand is partly influenced by the beat rate of the movement. 28.8K is nice and smooth, 21.6K less so, 14.4K stutters a bit, like this junker a friend let me have to see how it works.

Considering that's beats per hour, it makes sense. Each "jump" of the second hand takes 1/6 of a second, faster than the "shutter speed" of the eye.

However, the beat rate of a quartz movement is 32K per second. Blindingly fast compared to mechanical. Why isn't there a glass-smooth sweep second hand quartz watch? What am I missing?

Skutt50 · 13 April 2009, 04:03 AM

The beat rate in a mechanical watch is transfered mechanically to the second hand.

The 32K in a quartz movement is an oscillation frequency which isn't mechanically transfered to the second hand. There are electronics involved. To refer to it as beat rate is in my opinion not correct. It should be oscillation frequency.

Also you are comparing a beat rate of 28.8k per HOUR with an oscillation frequency of 32k per SECOND.

Flaxmoore · 13 April 2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skutt50

The beat rate in a mechanical watch is transfered mechanically to the second hand.

The 32K in a quartz movement is an oscillation frequency which isn't mechanically transfered to the second hand. There are electronics involved. To refer to it as beat rate is in my opinion not correct. It should be oscillation frequency.

Also you are comparing a beat rate of 28.8k per HOUR with an oscillation frequency of 32k per SECOND.

I know I compared oscillations per hour to beats per second. That was intentional.

However, why couldn't the electronics in a quartz be used to provide a sweeping hand? Seems as if it would be easier.

nylawbiz · 13 April 2009, 05:16 AM

It's the nature of analog vs. digital technology. Digital is yes/no; on/off; 1/0. Nothing in between. Everything incremental. Analog technology is continuous; as in the uncoiling of a spring. A constant movement; that is translated into the ratcheting of teeth in a gear. Does that make sense?

Flaxmoore · 13 April 2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nylawbiz

It's the nature of analog vs. digital technology. Digital is yes/no; on/off; 1/0. Nothing in between. Everything incremental. Analog technology is continuous; as in the uncoiling of a spring. A constant movement; that is translated into the ratcheting of teeth in a gear. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense, but there is one problem. Why is the on/off set at 1 second intervals? It seems as if it would be a fairly simple matter to set it to 1/10 second, or even 1/6 to keep it in base 60.

nylawbiz · 13 April 2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

It makes perfect sense, but there is one problem. Why is the on/off set at 1 second intervals? It seems as if it would be a fairly simple matter to set it to 1/10 second, or even 1/6 to keep it in base 60.

Not sure, but I would venture to guess it has to do with the limitations of the mechanics of the watch.

diablojota · 13 April 2009, 06:06 AM

Think about the consumption of battery power if you changed the interval settings from 1 sec to 1/10 of a second. This would increase the amount of time that the signal sent goes from 0 to 1 (off to on) tremendously leading to a much larger increase in the battery usage. You would in turn get probably about 1/10th the battery life then... Just my thought.

Tools · 13 April 2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablojota

Think about the consumption of battery power if you changed the interval settings from 1 sec to 1/10 of a second. This would increase the amount of time that the signal sent goes from 0 to 1 (off to on) tremendously leading to a much larger increase in the battery usage. You would in turn get probably about 1/10th the battery life then... Just my thought.

That's exactly it........ The motor to actually drive the watch hands is only pulsed once per second.

Of course, battery technology has come a long way now and it probably won't be long before quartz makers take the next step and smooth out that handsweep the way AC driven clocks are at only 60 cycles per second..

Flaxmoore · 13 April 2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

That's exactly it........ The motor to actually drive the watch hands is only pulsed once per second.

Of course, battery technology has come a long way now and it probably won't be long before quartz makers take the next step and smooth out that handsweep the way AC driven clocks are at only 60 cycles per second..

I actually wonder what would happen if Citizen got the Eco-Drive right, or if a true mechanical/battery hybrid existed. It could conceivably run forever.

Solo118 · 13 April 2009, 03:09 PM

I had a Pulsar about 10 years ago that was quartz, and when you start the chrono it moved very smooth without "ticking" I wonder if that is what you are talking about?

Mathemagician · 13 April 2009, 04:10 PM

I've got a quartz Seiko from 20+ years ago (rode my bike to a 90% off going out of business sale at a jeweler and picked it up for about $40 IIRC) with hands that move pretty smoothly either when using chrono or changing modes. Some barely perceptible ticking. No second hand, though, and I guess that's why. Thing is pretty nifty to this day and still runs just fine, though the lume is long dead.

johnswatch · 13 April 2009, 10:23 PM

The quartz Patek Aquanaut has a smooth sweep but needs a new battery every 18 months. Battery life is the reason you don't get smooth sweeps on most quartz watches (Seiko spring drive excepted)

gregdolley · 15 April 2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

It makes perfect sense, but there is one problem. Why is the on/off set at 1 second intervals? It seems as if it would be a fairly simple matter to set it to 1/10 second, or even 1/6 to keep it in base 60.

I heard that it's once every second to conserve battery life.

postiff · 15 April 2009, 10:16 AM

I have a quarts watch i got off ebay that runs very smooth.

gregdolley · 15 April 2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

I actually wonder what would happen if Citizen got the Eco-Drive right, or if a true mechanical/battery hybrid existed. It could conceivably run forever.

Check out the Seiko spring-drive to see an interesting mechanical/electro-magnetic hybrid. It also has a _very_ smooth sweep.

goduke1 · 15 April 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregdolley

Check out the Seiko spring-drive to see an interesting mechanical/electro-magnetic hybrid. It also has a _very_ smooth sweep.

X2 It is very smooth!

cwru32 · 16 April 2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nylawbiz

It's the nature of analog vs. digital technology. Digital is yes/no; on/off; 1/0. Nothing in between. Everything incremental. Analog technology is continuous; as in the uncoiling of a spring. A constant movement; that is translated into the ratcheting of teeth in a gear. Does that make sense?

wow smart lawyer !! i liked ur movie!

gioarmani7428 · 17 April 2009, 08:37 AM

Very interesting stuff!

watchmaker · 17 April 2009, 09:03 AM

I can't recall the model off hand, but ETA manufacture a line of quartz movements with sweep centre seconds. I could check the reference next week if anyone is that interested.

Nods · 18 April 2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

I actually wonder what would happen if Citizen got the Eco-Drive right, or if a true mechanical/battery hybrid existed. It could conceivably run forever.

I saw an add for GMT type Eco-Drive earlier this year and it was boasting a 3 year battery reserve. So I believe that they may have the Technology/battery to do the smooth sweep. It would be interesting to see one of those watches running.

Bulldozer · 13 May 2009, 12:45 AM

I am intrigued by this video I saw today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2FkD1QUc4w

It has a quartz movement cal. 5100 with sweeping second hand?

Nods · 14 May 2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanley Lyndon

I am intrigued by this video I saw today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2FkD1QUc4w

It has a quartz movement cal. 5100 with sweeping second hand?

It had to happen soon, good that Rolex did it first! (to my limited knowledge anyway) I wonder what the battery life is, rather short I suspect.

swatty · 14 May 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanley Lyndon

I am intrigued by this video I saw today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2FkD1QUc4w

It has a quartz movement cal. 5100 with sweeping second hand?

Never seen this

13 April 2009, 03:44 AM	#1
Flaxmoore Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Casey Location: Toledo, Ohio Watch: Alpha Milsub Posts: 704	Why is there no sweep second hand in a quartz watch? I admit I'm a relative newcomer at this, but something's bothering me. The smoothness of sweep for a watch second hand is partly influenced by the beat rate of the movement. 28.8K is nice and smooth, 21.6K less so, 14.4K stutters a bit, like this junker a friend let me have to see how it works. Considering that's beats per hour, it makes sense. Each "jump" of the second hand takes 1/6 of a second, faster than the "shutter speed" of the eye. However, the beat rate of a quartz movement is 32K per second. Blindingly fast compared to mechanical. Why isn't there a glass-smooth sweep second hand quartz watch? What am I missing?

13 April 2009, 06:06 AM	#7
diablojota "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Real Name: Frank Location: Chattanooga, TN Watch: SS Submariner Date Posts: 4,042	Think about the consumption of battery power if you changed the interval settings from 1 sec to 1/10 of a second. This would increase the amount of time that the signal sent goes from 0 to 1 (off to on) tremendously leading to a much larger increase in the battery usage. You would in turn get probably about 1/10th the battery life then... Just my thought. __________________ RTFT - Read The Friggin' Thread FcB

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13 April 2009, 04:03 AM	#2
Skutt50 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Steven Location: Sweden Watch: Old English Fusee Posts: 246	The beat rate in a mechanical watch is transfered mechanically to the second hand. The 32K in a quartz movement is an oscillation frequency which isn't mechanically transfered to the second hand. There are electronics involved. To refer to it as beat rate is in my opinion not correct. It should be oscillation frequency. Also you are comparing a beat rate of 28.8k per HOUR with an oscillation frequency of 32k per SECOND.

13 April 2009, 05:16 AM	#4
nylawbiz Member Join Date: May 2008 Real Name: Brian Location: New York Watch: too many Posts: 705	It's the nature of analog vs. digital technology. Digital is yes/no; on/off; 1/0. Nothing in between. Everything incremental. Analog technology is continuous; as in the uncoiling of a spring. A constant movement; that is translated into the ratcheting of teeth in a gear. Does that make sense?

13 April 2009, 03:09 PM	#10
Solo118 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Watch: Daytona Posts: 6,063	I had a Pulsar about 10 years ago that was quartz, and when you start the chrono it moved very smooth without "ticking" I wonder if that is what you are talking about?

13 April 2009, 04:10 PM	#11
Mathemagician "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Real Name: JJ Location: PA Watch: GMT IIc Posts: 83	I've got a quartz Seiko from 20+ years ago (rode my bike to a 90% off going out of business sale at a jeweler and picked it up for about $40 IIRC) with hands that move pretty smoothly either when using chrono or changing modes. Some barely perceptible ticking. No second hand, though, and I guess that's why. Thing is pretty nifty to this day and still runs just fine, though the lume is long dead.

13 April 2009, 10:23 PM	#12
johnswatch "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: in a dream world Posts: 488	The quartz Patek Aquanaut has a smooth sweep but needs a new battery every 18 months. Battery life is the reason you don't get smooth sweeps on most quartz watches (Seiko spring drive excepted)

15 April 2009, 10:16 AM	#14
postiff Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Danny Location: Ca Watch: 116710LN Posts: 936	I have a quarts watch i got off ebay that runs very smooth.

17 April 2009, 08:37 AM	#18
gioarmani7428 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Orlando Posts: 37	Very interesting stuff!

17 April 2009, 09:03 AM	#19
watchmaker TechXpert Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Scott Location: London Posts: 2,238	I can't recall the model off hand, but ETA manufacture a line of quartz movements with sweep centre seconds. I could check the reference next week if anyone is that interested.

13 May 2009, 12:45 AM	#21
Bulldozer "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 55.8554 °N Posts: 269	I am intrigued by this video I saw today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2FkD1QUc4w It has a quartz movement cal. 5100 with sweeping second hand?

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