70's Rolex & Tudor advice please

[FZS1000]

Hello everyone. Thanks for the add.
I have recently been trying to research a couple of watches which I inherited several years ago.
Firstly is a Gentleman's 9ct Gold Rolex, its a very simple design which I like
but seems to have some dust showing inside.
This was my Grandfathers watch and was purchased in 1973
There is reference to movement B468/c and a reference number of 43269

I can't seem to find much info on this model and am wondering if anyone can
help.



Secondly is my late fathers Tudor Monte Carlo 7169/0 with rotating bezel, this was purchased in 1976 and was worn daily by my dad for 30 years ... as
you can see by the condition.
How well could the scratches to the glass be taken out? and failing that how
available are replacements for a watch of this vintage?

Thanks
Ian

[TimeLord2]

I think many on this Forum will be amazed at that Monte Carlo! Very nice. The crystal is acrylic, if I am not mistaken, and the scratches can probably be buffed out using some Polywatch polish. That said, the crystal is considered consumable and can be (should be most likely) replaced at service with a period correct version. There is either a lot of DNA accumulating under the edge of the crystal or a little rust. I'm looking at the edge of the crystal from 2:00-6:00. I don't know the vintage specialists in the UK but in the US there a are a few; the Ridleys, Ric Deital, LA Watchworks, etc. I'm sure you will get many references for service momentarily. BTW, this should be listed in the vintage section for the experts. I believe there is a sticky in the Vintage Forum for repair specialists around the world.

[CTech]

The 9 ct Rolex Precision will have some more information inside the case back and so a few more photos of the hallmarks, model/serial numbers and other stampings/engravings would be useful.

This is not an Oyster case and so you should be able to remove it easily and can probably remove the movement as well. That would enable you to look at the dust or other marks on the dial and decide what to do to improve it.

These type of watches were often assembled by Rolex UK from Swiss supplied movements and UK sourced cases, but I'm not sure if they were still doing that in 1973.

If they were, this might have a Dennison case and would have an A.L.D. mark and UK hallmarks.

If not, this probably has a Swiss made case and might be listed in the 1973 catalogues. These gold Precision watches were a predecessor to the Cellini line and most of them have a model number stamped inside the case back and are shown in the relevant catalogues.

[FZS1000]

Hi TimeLord2, thanks for the comments. The crystal is acrylic, interesting that you say that it would be considered a consumable, gives me hope that getting a replacement will be relatively straight forward. There is quite a lot of 'grime' on both the watch and the strap and will indeed be DNA, sweat, dust and all the crap that accumulated during 30 years of daily use. I will look up the sticky you mentioned in the Vintage forum regarding repair specialists.
Thanks for your help.

[FZS1000]

Hi CTech, some really great information there, thank you. I think I am going to have get the back removed as you suggest, to see what reference other numbers/marks are in there

[doogan]

Two great watches there.

[harry in montreal]

That Monte Carlo is an exceptional watch. Relative to Daytonas and submariners they are quite unusual. Does the watch run and keep time? Before doing any repairs with it get it insured. The crystals are readily available. You can also go to a swatch store and buy polywatch and give the crystal a careful polish. You don’t want to run the bezel insert, Personally, I would leave it as is unless it’s crystal is cracked.

[linesiders]

Ohhhhh that MonteCarlo is sweet - not a showroom piece, but good shape for a well worn piece - lots of charisma !!

You'll probably get a lot of offers - don't sell - that is lovely and your dad had great taste ~

[zapokee]

Both beautiful.

The Monte Carlo is particularly notable, with the chamfers on its edges still clearly visible. It's in great shape considering it was worn for so long. Be sure to research value if you ever consider selling. It's worth quite a bit.

The plexi crystal is an easy replacement, but I might just keep it like that if I were you. Those are your late dad's hard-earned scratches.

Point of consideration: These are very professional photos for a non-dealer with only two posts... Hope the thread passes everybody's #SniffTest.

[Gary Busey]

Wow that Monte Carlo!!!!
A grail for many


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[FZS1000]

Originally Posted by CTech

The 9 ct Rolex Precision will have some more information inside the case back and so a few more photos of the hallmarks, model/serial numbers and other stampings/engravings would be useful.

This is not an Oyster case and so you should be able to remove it easily and can probably remove the movement as well. That would enable you to look at the dust or other marks on the dial and decide what to do to improve it.

These type of watches were often assembled by Rolex UK from Swiss supplied movements and UK sourced cases, but I'm not sure if they were still doing that in 1973.

If they were, this might have a Dennison case and would have an A.L.D. mark and UK hallmarks.

If not, this probably has a Swiss made case and might be listed in the 1973 catalogues. These gold Precision watches were a predecessor to the Cellini line and most of them have a model number stamped inside the case back and are shown in the relevant catalogues.

I took your agvice and cafefully removed the back, the mark B&S stands for B H Britton & Sons who I have found out made cases for Rolex, the marks are for Birmingham 1971 which ties in with the watch being purchased new in 1973

[FZS1000]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Both beautiful.

The Monte Carlo is particularly notable, with the chamfers on its edges still clearly visible. It's in great shape considering it was worn for so long. Be sure to research value if you ever consider selling. It's worth quite a bit.

The plexi crystal is an easy replacement, but I might just keep it like that if I were you. Those are your late dad's hard-earned scratches.

Point of consideration: These are very professional photos for a non-dealer with only two posts... Hope the thread passes everybody's #SniffTest.

I am more of a photographer than a watch dealer :)
I recently purchased a very nice 100mm Macro lens and wanted to try it out hence I got the watches out of the cupboard. It was when I saw the high res pictures and could see they required some work that I thought it was worth asking advice on this forum ... all very innocent I can assure you.

[FZS1000]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

I think many on this Forum will be amazed at that Monte Carlo! Very nice. The crystal is acrylic, if I am not mistaken, and the scratches can probably be buffed out using some Polywatch polish. That said, the crystal is considered consumable and can be (should be most likely) replaced at service with a period correct version. There is either a lot of DNA accumulating under the edge of the crystal or a little rust. I'm looking at the edge of the crystal from 2:00-6:00. I don't know the vintage specialists in the UK but in the US there a are a few; the Ridleys, Ric Deital, LA Watchworks, etc. I'm sure you will get many references for service momentarily. BTW, this should be listed in the vintage section for the experts. I believe there is a sticky in the Vintage Forum for repair specialists around the world.

I have just dropped the Monte Carlo off at the Jewelers it was purchased from, they are sending it away for 'assessment' which sounds expensive however they pronounce it haha
I have asked them to break down the cost for service,cleaning and repair/replacement of the acrylic glass.
I found the service documents from 1999

I should know the options in a couple of weeks

[edward146]

Love that Tudor


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[CTech]

Originally Posted by FZS1000

I took your agvice and cafefully removed the back, the mark B&S stands for B H Britton & Sons who I have found out made cases for Rolex, the marks are for Birmingham 1971 which ties in with the watch being purchased new in 1973

That's good extra information about the case maker and hallmarks. Unfortunately you can't just lift the movement out of the B&S cases so you'll have to get a watchmaker to remove the winding stem and take it out so you can see the dial dust or marks more clearly.

This is probably in need of a service anyway so a good independent watchmaker could give you some help on costs, work required etc.

The B&S cases are very well made so you have got a nice example of a 9 ct UK cased Rolex Precision watch, well worth cleaning and servicing when the time is right.

There are some numbers scribed into the back of one of the case lugs and these might be related to whenever the watch was last serviced. Most watchmakers scratch the date of service and their initials or company ID in the case back but maybe someone put that information on the case lug instead. It's worth another look to see if that is useful information.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by FZS1000

I am more of a photographer than a watch dealer :)
I recently purchased a very nice 100mm Macro lens and wanted to try it out hence I got the watches out of the cupboard. It was when I saw the high res pictures and could see they required some work that I thought it was worth asking advice on this forum ... all very innocent I can assure you.

Sniff test passed.

Do you have dad's box and papers for the Monte Carlo? If not, have a rummage around for them if that's an option. It's very much worth keeping the set together.

BTW, you need a vintage-sympathetic restorer for this. On no account should you let Rolex service it - they'll want to swap out all sorts of parts, which will ruin its vintage value and its history. Check where the jeweler has sent it, and if they've sent it to the Rolex Service Centre, request its immediate return with no service.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Sniff test passed.

Do you have dad's box and papers for the Monte Carlo? If not, have a rummage around for them if that's an option. It's very much worth keeping the set together.

BTW, you need a vintage-sympathetic restorer for this. On no account should you let Rolex service it - they'll want to swap out all sorts of parts, which will ruin its vintage value and its history. Check where the jeweler has sent it, and if they've sent it to the Rolex Service Centre, request its immediate return with no service.

All of this ^^^^^ right here. Very important from a collectibility sense. It is only original once.

[Oyster Perp]

Monte Carlo's fetch a pretty price when in good condition. Make sure you trust your jeweller !! ........ its been known

[harry in montreal]

If your orig dial and hands get replaced you will take a big 40% hit in value. Same for the case. If you polish it, you take a hit. Just get the Tudor to run. That’s all. No other parts should be replaced. The springbars holding the band should be replaced.

[Styles Bitchley]

What a perfect pair. All you need is a beater and you’ve got a very admirable three watch collection - something for every occasion.

That collective holding of breaths you may sense is that you’ve sent that Tudor off to a “jeweller” for potential service. Sorry to say but it should really be sent to a vintage Rolex/Tudor specialist. It may be expensive to properly service but you could easily see the value of it decreased considerably by having the wrong person service it.

[drockadam]

Gorgeous vintage pieces.

Hang on to them, service them and enjoy them is my advice. That Monte Carlo is stunning.

[zapokee]

Where did the OP go?

[njc313]

Love those Monte Carlos. So unique looking. They really vary in price. I swear Jacek had one around 60-80k within the last few months.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by FZS1000

I have just dropped the Monte Carlo off at the Jewelers it was purchased from, they are sending it away for 'assessment'

Worst case scenario IMO. Personally, I would never do this. You have no idea where the jeweler will send it, and any communication will go through a middle-man, which has the proven potential for problems. If you just spend a few weeks reading threads on the forum, you will read several horror stories, where someone did exactly this with the "most reputable Rolex dealer" in their area, with disastrous results.

With a desirable and collectible vintage watch like this, I would always send it directly to a highly experienced watchmaker of my own choosing, with whom I could communicate directly. Even sending it directly to an RSC is a better choice, since you are at least more likely to get accurate communication, enabling you to make informed choices. If the jeweler's watchmaker has a question, they will ask the jeweler what to do, and who knows what they will say. It's a game of "telephone".

You might want to consider getting the watch back and starting over again. Many jewelers know little about collectible vintage watches, and choose to send them out to a bargain watchmaker so they can charge a big mark-up. If this watchmaker/jeweler combo decides to polish the watch and replace the hands with superluminova service parts, you will have little recourse. Once done, some things can't be un-done.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by njc313

Love those Monte Carlos. So unique looking. They really vary in price. I swear Jacek had one around 60-80k within the last few months.

Yes, he did. But that wasn't this.

Jacek's was the one with the black dial rather than the grey one. They're exponentially rarer. Might be nudging six figures USD before long. I'd put those in the Paul Newman and Milsub bracket.

The ones with the grey dial like this typically go for 15 - 18 k right now. The ones with the homeplate markers are 30+.

[FZS1000]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Where did the OP go?

I was just off grid for a couple of days :)

There were one or two questions and comments various members asked so I will try to add all the detail in one go
Firstly, I have all original boxes & paperwork for both watches, which has been pointed out by many that this is a big plus point especially if I wanted to sell.
Secondly the consensus seems to be dont let just anyone look at the Tudor and I agree. The Jewelers I took it to is the biggest Rolex dealer in the Area
and is where both the watches were originally purchased from. They are part
of a national chain and have either sent the watch to their own central
service center or back to RWC for appraisal. However, no work is getting done without me agreeing to a full detailed breakdown.

The Tudor was wound after sitting in its box for about 15 years, it kept good
time and the stopwatch functioned correctly, so as far as a service goes
anything other than an internal clean and lubricate will flash warning bells
to me.
The case needs a good clean after 30 years of use, but in no way would I
allow it to be polished, same goes for the bracelet, which could do with some
of the links tightening, ok as long as no new links were required.

Which leaves the acrylic glass, which was the main reason I created the post.
And following comments and suggestions I seem to have the following options:

Option 1: Leave it as it is, great for sentimentality, not so good for resale
value
Option 2: Get the glass polished back to a good standard, my preferred option depending on cost
Option 3: Replace with genuine Rolex part, guaranteed and certified etc -
probably costly
Option 4: Replace with 3rd party item, this isn't going to happen!

So at the moment I am just waiting for the result of the appraisal ...

[njc313]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Yes, he did. But that wasn't this.

Jacek's was the one with the black dial rather than the grey one. They're exponentially rarer. Might be nudging six figures USD before long. I'd put those in the Paul Newman and Milsub bracket.

The ones with the grey dial like this typically go for 15 - 18 k right now. The ones with the homeplate markers are 30+.

Very cool, love these watches. The home plate markers are great looking. I tried the new remake on at an AD and they’re just too shiny and don’t have that vintage feel. I’ll have to hunt down a vintage one, one of these days.

[linesiders]

If you are confident the crystal / watch is fairly waterproof: 3000 grit wetsand, 5000 grit wetsand, 7000 grit wetsand, followed by a polish of McGuires PlastX Headlamp polish, wrap the watch/bezel/insert in cloth so you don't inadvertently hit it.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by FZS1000

Option 1: Leave it as it is, great for sentimentality, not so good for resale
value ...

Barely affects resale value at all. The crystal is a 100-dollar disposable part.

Originally Posted by linesiders

If you are confident the crystal / watch is fairly waterproof: 3000 grit wetsand, 5000 grit wetsand, 7000 grit wetsand, followed by a polish of McGuires PlastX Headlamp polish, wrap the watch/bezel/insert in cloth so you don't inadvertently hit it.

I'm always nervous about advising DIY vintage repairs.

It's easy when YOU know how to do it, but for someome with no experience or in-person guidance, there's a whole world of possible hurt. Don't sand that insert!