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Old 1 July 2014, 03:15 AM   #31
Toony
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For me I would not but if you have a proper relationship with the AD then it would be up to you.
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Old 1 July 2014, 03:36 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gqmagic View Post
I bought an Annual calendar, had my name on the cert, changed my mind, sent it back. The AD said no worries he could get another cert for the next buyer.



I'm basing my "AD can get a cert" comment on this experience of mine.



Your AD may operate differently

http://www.patek.com/contents/defaul...rtificate.html
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Old 1 July 2014, 05:14 AM   #33
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Doesn't refute my example, I'm sure the buyer after me got a certificate in his name.

We might be talking semantics, as my certificate wasn't lost my AD was able to get the replacement. This was 2007.

The watch in question of the OP of this thread sounds like it is a few years old, maybe taken in trade, still the AD (if it is an AD) should be able to get some sort of paperwork.


To those who think a lack of certificate is worth 40% to 50%, time to wake up.
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Old 1 July 2014, 05:51 AM   #34
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It really depends on the price the AD is willing to sell this pre-owned watch. The 5711/1A new is listed at $26.7K USD.

Even those who claim they will never purchase a watch without papers, I wonder how many will pass it up if the AD was selling it at a steep discount(e.g. $13.3K or 50% discount). I don't think the AD will sell it that low, but it really depends on the sales price for pre-owned watches, even for watches without the certificate.
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Old 1 July 2014, 05:53 AM   #35
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you are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by gqmagic View Post
Doesn't refute my example, I'm sure the buyer after me got a certificate in his name.

We might be talking semantics, as my certificate wasn't lost my AD was able to get the replacement. This was 2007.

The watch in question of the OP of this thread sounds like it is a few years old, maybe taken in trade, still the AD (if it is an AD) should be able to get some sort of paperwork.


To those who think a lack of certificate is worth 40% to 50%, time to wake up.
Buy one at full retail without paperwork.
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Old 1 July 2014, 06:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by jon_jon View Post
It really depends on the price the AD is willing to sell this pre-owned watch. The 5711/1A new is listed at $26.7K USD.

Even those who claim they will never purchase a watch without papers, I wonder how many will pass it up if the AD was selling it at a steep discount(e.g. $13.3K or 50% discount). I don't think the AD will sell it that low, but it really depends on the sales price for pre-owned watches, even for watches without the certificate.

Exactly ,i d pull the trigger at 50 discount-who don t-,however i doubt anyone offers such a deal.
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Old 2 July 2014, 12:21 PM   #37
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Exactly ,i d pull the trigger at 50 discount-who don t-,however i doubt anyone offers such a deal.
When I bought my new 5711 the AD had a used one for sale without the box or papers, his price was a grand or so less than a new one. Dealers will find someone to pay the price they are asking since after all, they are the AD with the store front.
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Old 2 July 2014, 07:01 PM   #38
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^sure some ppl don t care ,not aware .
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Old 2 July 2014, 08:17 PM   #39
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It's like the Bob Marley song says: " No...papers no buy...."
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Old 2 July 2014, 10:33 PM   #40
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It's like the Bob Marley song says: " No...papers no buy...."


This conversation leads me to believe my Papers should be in my safe deposit box with the deed to my house and such! Another trip to the bank...

Do you guys keep your papers in the bank?
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Old 2 July 2014, 10:46 PM   #41
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This conversation leads me to believe my Papers should be in my safe deposit box with the deed to my house and such! Another trip to the bank...

Do you guys keep your papers in the bank?
I have two large safe deposit boxes and I do keep all papers in one of them. Better in the safe deposit bank than sorry. I am extra cautious even though I have alarm system and safe at home. I just don't like taking any chance whatsoever.
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Old 6 July 2014, 10:44 AM   #42
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Good feedback guys. The dealer was asking for 23k. You are right and I'm now thinking that it would be better for me to pay a few K more for something in my name, brand new.
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Old 7 July 2014, 01:02 AM   #43
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It is worth 15-16k with no papers
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Old 7 July 2014, 01:48 AM   #44
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It is worth 15-16k with no papers

But if you had only the watch and miraculously found the matching papers on eBay (far fetched I know), would you Buy those papers for $7k?
That's where I get confused. What are papers really worth in conjunction with the watch? Would you really spend even an extra $3k for the 5711 that had papers versus the one that didn't?
I understand this would be different for a minute repeater...
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Old 7 July 2014, 04:57 AM   #45
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It is like buying a house with a garage or no garage with the same square footage. The one with garage is in higher demand and worth more. If you know how to buy you can get a good used 5711 for 19-21k complete. I payed a little less than that but I hunted and one can say my time was worth way more than the savings.

Also look how days on market of watches with open papers vs filled out. Shorter time to sell, and slight premium for open papers. Why, because it is more perferd my many.


Quote:
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But if you had only the watch and miraculously found the matching papers on eBay (far fetched I know), would you Buy those papers for $7k?
That's where I get confused. What are papers really worth in conjunction with the watch? Would you really spend even an extra $3k for the 5711 that had papers versus the one that didn't?
I understand this would be different for a minute repeater...
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Old 7 July 2014, 05:41 AM   #46
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But if you had only the watch and miraculously found the matching papers on eBay (far fetched I know), would you Buy those papers for $7k?
That's where I get confused. What are papers really worth in conjunction with the watch? Would you really spend even an extra $3k for the 5711 that had papers versus the one that didn't?
I understand this would be different for a minute repeater...
There is absolutely no way that a 5711 without papers is worth only 15K. Somebody show me an example of a sale like that...especially if the watch is out of warranty.
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Old 7 July 2014, 06:27 AM   #47
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I would buy a 5711 without papers for 15k
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Old 7 July 2014, 07:11 AM   #48
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You will have to get into a time machine to go back 5-6 yrs to find a 5711 for $15K papers or no papers.
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Old 7 July 2014, 08:03 AM   #49
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I would not pay 23k for it. No matter how mint
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Old 7 July 2014, 08:16 AM   #50
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There is a delicate balance between supply and demand for may PP timepieces including the 5711/1A. PP only produce a certain number of these watches a year and there is probably a greater demand than supply at the moment. Patek can increase the price and it will decrease demand. There hasn't been a price increase in the US for this reference for a couple of years. If Patek decides to increase the price 10 or 20%, will there still be a demand for this watch? I have a feeling the $30K may be a breaking point for this watch. The recently released 5227 Calatrava is not in such a demand (except for the WG model) because Patek raised the price quite significantly.

Anyway going back to topic of a pre-owned 5711/1A without papers, there will be a price where a buyer purchase the watch without papers. As mentioned above, it is somewhere between fll retail price and 50% of retail price. Myopiccoog mentioned the $15K USD as a price point for himself. For others, it will be $17K, $20K or even $23K. As long as the demand continues to outweigh supply, this price point will be closer to the full retail price than most TRF members are willing to pay for.

Remember the days of the highly in-demand SS Daytona. Some SS Daytonas were selling at or above retail price at one time due to the heavily skewed supply/demand curve.

At the end of the day, the 5711/1A is still just a watch. 99% of the world outside the WIS community will just use their phone to check time.
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Old 17 May 2018, 05:08 AM   #51
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Wanna revive this thread.

I have a 5712 steel I got a few years back without papers. Do you think I can fetch more than 40k at this current crazy market? I see a full set sell for 55k now. With the hot market do you think people will overlook on watches without papers?

Thanks!
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Old 17 May 2018, 05:25 AM   #52
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Do you have Extract From The Archives? If not, get it ASAP and then sell fast while the market is hot.
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Old 17 May 2018, 08:08 AM   #53
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I would not pay 23k for it. No matter how mint
I think someone would be eating their words ...
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Old 17 May 2018, 08:25 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gqmagic View Post
I bought an Annual calendar, had my name on the cert, changed my mind, sent it back. The AD said no worries he could get another cert for the next buyer.



I'm basing my "AD can get a cert" comment on this experience of mine.



Your AD may operate differently


Let me ask a question then....what happens if the certificate is damaged prior to sale by the AD for any reason...water damage is a perfect example. Or someone spilled coffee while they were sorting out the inventory...

Does the AD get a replacement or they have to sell the watch sans certificate.

I would assume the AD can pick up the phone and ask for another.

Maybe ďthe no replacementĒ is for consumers only, not ADs with new watches in stock, or a returned watch like your example.

Letís see what the forums members have to say.

Iíll also ask one of my buddies, he works at a Patek AD.



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Old 17 May 2018, 09:29 AM   #55
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Let me ask a question then....what happens if the certificate is damaged prior to sale by the AD for any reason...water damage is a perfect example. Or someone spilled coffee while they were sorting out the inventory...

Does the AD get a replacement or they have to sell the watch sans certificate.

I would assume the AD can pick up the phone and ask for another.

Maybe ďthe no replacementĒ is for consumers only, not ADs with new watches in stock, or a returned watch like your example.

Letís see what the forums members have to say.

Iíll also ask one of my buddies, he works at a Patek AD.



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On two occasions 2 separate ADs filled out incorrect details on my certificates. They got new certificates for me and they said certificates came from Geneva and not from the UK distributor Rhone.
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Old 17 May 2018, 09:32 AM   #56
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Everyone here would buy it for $1, so the real question is: how much should the watch be discounted to make the deal appealing?

For me, it might start at 30% off retail depending on the piece, how bad I wanted it, and the story behind it. The greater the discount, the more I would consider the deal.

That said, I would be very reluctant to do a no paper deal. But at the right price...
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Old 17 May 2018, 09:49 AM   #57
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Buying a used PP from AD but without papers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Philip View Post
On two occasions 2 separate ADs filled out incorrect details on my certificates. They got new certificates for me and they said certificates came from Geneva and not from the UK distributor Rhone.


So they can get a replacement if they mess up or a customer returns! Thanks Sam


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Old 17 May 2018, 09:51 AM   #58
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Buying a used PP from AD but without papers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Everyone here would buy it for $1, so the real question is: how much should the watch be discounted to make the deal appealing?



For me, it might start at 30% off retail depending on the piece, how bad I wanted it, and the story behind it. The greater the discount, the more I would consider the deal.



That said, I would be very reluctant to do a no paper deal. But at the right price...


I hear what youíre saying, but for me it will always be missing something. For others, maybe not.


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Old 17 May 2018, 01:41 PM   #59
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The real question is how much would you pay for a no paper 5712...
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Old 17 May 2018, 02:50 PM   #60
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Are you going walk around with the papers on your wrist ? Lol as long as itís 100% real idc
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