Just talk to Rolex AD this morning

[irchow]

I read that the reason the Nautilus is so impossible to get is that PP does not want their brand to be defined by 1 watch, like how AP let the royal oak take over their brand. The other reason is that PP wants most of their watches sold to be precious metal. Also, PP and AP are dress watch companies at its core so there is no real competition between them and Rolex.

[Seddyspaghetti]

Fake news.

"Tudor is going to be the next Rolex" LMAO. I needed a good laugh. Thanks OP.

[Plebs]

Originally Posted by irchow

I read that the reason the Nautilus is so impossible to get is that PP does not want their brand to be defined by 1 watch, like how AP let the royal oak take over their brand. The other reason is that PP wants most of their watches sold to be precious metal. Also, PP and AP are dress watch companies at its core so there is no real competition between them and Rolex.

Yes, most ADs only get very few each year... PP doesn’t want their brand defined by the Nautilus. Patek likes telling their clients no in a nice way lol.


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[McinRolex]

Just another shady tactic to sell you undesirable two tone Datejust and cellini.

[mitchellp]

See, it’s posts like this that I just do not understand. I appreciate OP acting as messenger here, but I undoubtably think the AD rep had absolutely no idea what he was talking about.

First, where does he get his information? My buddy works at an AD, and it’s not like sales reps get ‘inside information.’ Honestly, they know as much as we do (save for the watches that are being held in the safe) and in most cases, less.

Second, what does it even mean to “move up with AP and Patek?” Conceivably, I would assume he meant move up in terms of price and quality. To be frank, Rolex doesn’t seem to be moving forward with either of those points too aggressively. QC is worse than its arguably ever been. Price increases have been modest, and certainly do not reflect anything near PP. So what does he mean?

Does anyone else remember when the Aquanaut was a dog? And say, just 5-10 years ago when someone could merely walk in and buy a 5711? Let us not forget that what we are experiencing today as watch enthusiasts is brand new. This perceived scarcity debacle has been prevalent for only ~3 years. Let’s not lose our s^*<! due to a few stellar years for Rolex and PP. Things can change on a dime.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Well at the very least, this thread was an interesting read. It's good to read all the threads with insider information that lets us know exactly what Rolex is doing.
Meanwhile life as we know it in spite of all this insider information remains the same, and the lists keep growing as demand keeps growing.

There are exponentially more Tudors available for purchase than Rolex watches. Is it the price, nope, it's not more Tudor purchases, there's simply more Tudor product, Rolex could easily do the same. People are making a lot of money lately and demand is higher than ever, Rolex is in a great position where it sells damn near every watch it makes, things will continue like this, they don't ever want to see their cases filled with unsold watches.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head!

[worldofoyster]

you mean the op41?

[kimobebe]

Originally Posted by worldofoyster

you mean the op41?

Yes. I mean op41 :).


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[640ibimmerguy]

If this is the case, then wouldn't Rolex have already increased prices, lets say to at least match the gray pricing?

[Asumer]

This post made me laugh. Rolex focusing now on quality over quantity!! They need to look at watches made this year, I have seen alot of new 2020 subs with sloppy bracelets(space between lugs and bracelet. Also a poster here recently showcased a turquoise 2020 OP dial that was malformed. If thats the quality they are putting out and expecting 5 year waits count me out! I love rolex but the recent ss shortage imposed by corporate is a failed strategy. Apple tried to do the same thing with their iphones with huge lines and artificial scarcity until Tim Cook wisely put a stop to that a few years ago, and guess what apple is a 2T dollar company now due to giving the customer what they want.

[donas]

"We are going to focus on quality not quantity"....continues to put same watches in smaller case -

[Mendota]

That guy was talking out of his you know what. Total smarmy sales tactic, trying to sound like he's got the inside scoop. That's complete rubbish.

From what watch experts have said, this has been making Rolex ADs look bad and has soured the brand in the eyes of many potential buyers. ADs have devoted significant showroom space to the brand and these cases are sitting empty. They have been complaining and Rolex has been listening.

If you read Corder's column on Watch pro, he's interviewed ADs all over the world and the consensus is this current supply/demand anomaly will balance out within a couple of years as they shift more and more production resources to stainless sports models.

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...teel%20watches.

[Breizh]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Another reason why I've given up on buying a new Rolex from an AD. Those who are buying them are on a first name basis

Saw that first hand (granted it was on Rodeo Dr) when a young man came in and was greeted very cheerfully by his first name, his girlfriend rocking a $20k purse with another one in a shopping bag.
It was then very obvious that whatever watch I wanted was not going to be available to me anytime soon...

[MILGAUSS88]

Rolex is going upscale to compete with PP and AP?

So, that would mean that they are going to cut production from 1 million, to 60,000. Jettison the majority of there steel models and concentrate on precious metal models. And come out with numerous complications, that they have never produced in the life of the company.

Yeah..... I buy this story.

[Breizh]

Originally Posted by Mendota

If you read Corder's column on Watch pro, he's interviewed ADs all over the world and the consensus is this current supply/demand anomaly will balance out within a couple of years as they shift more and more production resources to stainless sports models.

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...teel%20watches.

Interesting article. A year old already meaning the shortage should end in a year...not looking too good at the moment.

[David001]

Originally Posted by mitchellp

Does anyone else remember when the Aquanaut was a dog? And say, just 5-10 years ago when someone could merely walk in and buy a 5711? Let us not forget that what we are experiencing today as watch enthusiasts is brand new. This perceived scarcity debacle has been prevalent for only ~3 years. Let’s not lose our s^*<! due to a few stellar years for Rolex and PP. Things can change on a dime.

For a time the Nautilus was seen as terribly gauche.

When PP and AP copied Rolex and bought out tool/sport stainless steel watches the upper classes weren't interested and the only people buying them were show offs who wanted to be Steve McQueen cool enough to wear a tool watch but wanted to show off that they had more money than Rolex tool watch wearers.

I also remember being asked if I wanted a TT Rolex as a gift in the early 90's and I declined, it wouldn't have been fashionable as a 21yr old back then. Secretly I thought Don Johnson was the coolest man alive, but it wouldn't have been fashionable to admit it

I wonder about the attitude of the younger generation to these things.
I offered my son a new Sub for his 18th and he declined, he said it's far too ostentatious. He's grown up in a life of luxury/private school/etc and he reckons any obvious display of money is so frowned upon amongst his peers that he wouldn't even consider it.

I'm sure culture also plays a large part, if he was an American gangster rap fan then he'd probably have a different attitude towards bling than a traditional English schoolboy.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by David001

I wonder about the attitude of the younger generation to these things.
I offered my son a new Sub for his 18th and he declined, he said it's far too ostentatious. He's grown up in a life of luxury/private school/etc and he reckons any obvious display of money is so frowned upon amongst his peers that he wouldn't even consider it.

He has solid principles for sure.

That's the difference between the old money mentality and the nouveau riche. I also think it's crass to blatantly flaunt wealth. In fact, I happen to think its those without any real wealth that are more flashy in an attempt to make themselves appear to be something they're not.

I think social media plays a massive part of it.

[David001]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

He has solid principles for sure.

That's the difference between the old money mentality and the nouveau riche. I also think it's crass to blatantly flaunt wealth. In fact, I happen to think its those without any real wealth that are more flashy in an attempt to make themselves appear to be something they're not.

I think social media plays a massive part of it.

This is obviously off at a tangent here, but my theory is that he (and his friends) could have whatever they want (obviously within reason) so there is no need to get it and show off.

Back onto the subject in question, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I reckon that Rolex probably don't care what PP/AP are doing, they're doing what they need to do to protect the long term value of their brand, and that means desirability - I doubt that they are terribly invested in competing in some imaginary who is the poshest watch maker competition.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by David001

This is obviously off at a tangent here, but my theory is that he (and his friends) could have whatever they want (obviously within reason) so there is no need to get it and show off.

Back onto the subject in question, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I reckon that Rolex probably don't care what PP/AP are doing, they're doing what they need to do to protect the long term value of their brand, and that means desirability - I doubt that they are terribly invested in competing in some imaginary who is the poshest watch maker competition.

I agree - I can't see it. Rolex are a high volume manufacturer and have been for as long as most of us have known them.

Their factories and supply chains (which will be significant) will rely on that output, and so will the people's wages that work for both the crown and its supply and distribution chain.

If the suggestion here is that Rolex intend on becoming a more "boutique" style brand, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that's going to happen.

They make money from volume. It's as simple as that. No doubt somebody will be along any minute to suggest that their "charitable status" means they don't need to make such vast amounts of money.

[kizerman]

Rolex is and always will be a mass-produced, mega-marketed brand and will never compete with AP and PP for market space. That's ridiculous.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by David001

This is obviously off at a tangent here, but my theory is that he (and his friends) could have whatever they want (obviously within reason) so there is no need to get it and show off.

Back onto the subject in question, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I reckon that Rolex probably don't care what PP/AP are doing, they're doing what they need to do to protect the long term value of their brand, and that means desirability - I doubt that they are terribly invested in competing in some imaginary who is the poshest watch maker competition.

Yeah, these three do stand apart from the rest of the mainstream largely because of their ownership structures.

Not needing to account to faceless shareholders means they can adopt very different marketing and sales strategies to achieve their own objectives. Profit maximisation does not appear to be one of them, especially short term profit.

People rarely take this into account when lamenting what Rolex is, or isn’t doing to put a submariner or GMT in their hands.


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[Kube]

They can't compete with AP and Patek. To get to that level, they'd have to charge 3x what they're charging now per piece to cover the extra work

[crownprince]

Originally Posted by rdizzle92

thats just nonsence, tudor will never be rolex. They are so tacky with their marketing and their david beckham and lady gaga adverts almost as bad as omega and their james bond ads.

+1

[Kube]

I like how this AD thinks Rolex can just make Tudor the next Rolex. Tudor is so different. Their style is very polarizing to many far less than Rolex's. Are Tudors going to jump to Rolex prices because of the extra work required to bring them to the latter's level? What about the celebrated history/image of Rolex over the decades of marketing/innovation/military use/popular culture? It would take decades for Tudor to catch up only if it was fully recreated. But many of the opportunities that made Rolex what it is today aren't there for Tudor. Also, different style, higher price... might as well just keep Tudor Tudor, Rolex Rolex, and start making a higher line of minute repeaters and Tourbillons which, of course, Rolex would never do.

[David001]

I'm struggling to see how Tudor isn't the new Rolex, now that Rolex has moved on a bit.

Tudor make SS tool watches that are expensive enough to make some people aspire to own one but cheap enough that more expensive brand wearers can look down upon them and mock.

Isn't that where Rolex used to be?
(and arguably still is to a PP snob)

Personally I really like Tudor watches (I also like Omega and even Bell & Ross) but if we're talking watch snobbery then Tudor is definitely the new Rolex.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by kimobebe

The AD point to the showcase and let me realize Rolex changes its market strategy. Rolex is going to compete with PP, AP. Tudor is going to be the next Rolex, to fill the blank when the Rolex move to the next level.

The AD said, "Rolex focuses on qualities more than quantity now".

Absolute nonsense.

[Ranger67]

I’d say Rolex are right where they want to be right now, the most recognisable watch brand, possibly even one of the top, say 10-20 recognisable brands In the world, young kids know what a Rolex is, the marketing is perfect (for them), they keep interest in the brand at an all time high even with a pandemic, can’t see them wanting to change anything.

[brandrea]

Rolex doesn’t compete with PP or AP. They do their own thing

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by kimobebe

The AD point to the showcase and let me realize Rolex changes its market strategy. Rolex is going to compete with PP, AP. Tudor is going to be the next Rolex, to fill the blank when the Rolex move to the next level.

Rolex was using the showcase to display at least 20 watches, but now they use a new design showcase which only holds about 4-9 watches at a time.

The AD said, "Rolex focuses on qualities more than quantity now"

OK, I re-read this part carefully... and I think I understand now.

I’m in NYC frequently so I’ve been to all the stores and am familiar with Rolex display cases.

Two weeks ago, when I visited a particular AD, the display cases were very full: sections with 20 DJ with smooth bezels, 30 TT/YG DJ, 30 TT/RG DJ, 10 sports, 10 DD, 5 Cellini, etc. The typical setup.

When I was there this week, the display cases were reconfigured to accommodate far fewer pieces, all spread out in the spirit of social distancing. Instead of a section holding 50 watches and 20 or 30 of them being empty... now, each section holds 20 and they are very spread out.

I don’t know if this change applies across the board, or was just an isolated observation... but this may be what the AD was referencing when pointing out the display case.

[Watchflair]

That makes absolutely no sense.

PP puts out around 60,000 pieces per year and AP puts out around 40,000 pieces per year.
Rolex puts out in excess of 1 million pieces per year.

So Rolex is looking to decrease their production by 95% to be more in line with brands it doesn't really compete with...

Those slot holders are there to make the brand not look distressed by a lack of inventory in the showcase. Simple as that.

Oh and Tudor the new Rolex - that's not happening. Brand perception and value area too high in the Rolex nameplate.