Help with a Tiffany GMT

[brettpaul]

Experts - in trying to help a friend sell a full set Tiffany GMT but it appears to me the hands were all changed during the service...he's assured me that he asked Rolex not to replace any parts.

He still has the service warranty card from 2015 - can they look up the service order and confirm nothing has been replaced?

Your thoughts on the dial/hands are much appreciated - is it possible to have this disparity in the patina?

IMG_1804.jpg

IMG_1810.jpgIMG_1806.jpgIMG_1799.jpg


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[Vincent65]

Yes it is possible. Hands and dial patina do not always match perfectly, even when original.
They could be original... maybe.

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Yes it is possible. Hands and dial patina do not always match perfectly, even when original.

They could be original... maybe.

I've inspected the watch and all of the bumps and bruises are still on the case so I'm certain it's not been polished - have advised him to get a copy of the actual service receipt from Rolex.


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[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by brettpaul

I've inspected the watch and all of the bumps and bruises are still on the case so I'm certain it's not been polished - have advised him to get a copy of the actual service receipt from Rolex.


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Documented that the hands are original.

IMG_1915.JPGIMG_1914.JPG



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[faimag]

Well, if it doesn't glow, hands are original. In 2015, service hands would be SL.

The uneven patina between hour markers and hands is actually quite common in vintage Rolex watches from late 1980s and early 1990s (see here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=97366). Supposedly, this is because Rolex sourced tritium dials and hands from different suppliers who used different batches, leading to different rates of patina development.

From a chemistry point of view, the different surface area and microenvironment (hands move all the time whereas hour markers stay still) can also affect the rate of patina development.

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by faimag

Well, if it doesn't glow, hands are original. In 2015, service hands would be SL.

The uneven patina between hour markers and hands is actually quite common in vintage Rolex watches from late 1980s and early 1990s (see here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=97366). Supposedly, this is because Rolex sourced tritium dials and hands from different suppliers who used different batches, leading to different rates of patina development.

From a chemistry point of view, the different surface area and microenvironment (hands move all the time whereas hour markers stay still) can also affect the rate of patina development.

Great to know and good info - thanks very much!


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[JP Chestnut]

The hands don't look that off to me, it's certainly not a stark difference. That's a very desirable watch. Provably real Tiffany watches don't grow on trees!

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

The hands don't look that off to me, it's certainly not a stark difference. That's a very desirable watch. Provably real Tiffany watches don't grow on trees!

Thanks JP - it's a really nice watch and if I didn't have to flip 3 of my modern SS watches I'd get it myself!


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[brettpaul]

Sharing some more pics as I know you gents will appreciate it!!


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[brettpaul]

IMG_1800.jpgAttachment 1IMG_1805.jpgIMG_1799.jpg


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[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by brettpaul

Thanks JP - it's a really nice watch and if I didn't have to flip 3 of my modern SS watches I'd get it myself!


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My first "nice watch" (bought using tutoring money in undergrad) was a 16710, so the five digit GMT2s will always have a special place for me.

On edit: either pull the photo showing the serial number, or use an image editing program to cover it up.

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

My first "nice watch" (bought using tutoring money in undergrad) was a 16710, so the five digit GMT2s will always have a special place for me.

I'm really starting to appreciate them - have the BLNR and love it so maybe a 5-digit is in my future some day.


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[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by brettpaul

I'm really starting to appreciate them - have the BLNR and love it so maybe a 5-digit is in my future some day.


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They strike the perfect balance between vintage cool, and every day practicality IMO. They're essentially all I collect.

[Sky21]

Agree that for everyday use and just a bit of the vintage nostalgia, the 5 digits in almost every model are the way to go. Plus, if you go SS, other than the 16520, most are relatively affordable still today.

[freefly]

As fainmag mentioned above, the quickest way to tell if the hands are original (in this instance) would be the lume test.
A quick blast from a flashlight or exposure to sunlight (then taken back in the dark) is all that's needed. Great piece BTW!

[rootbeer7]

RSC should be able to tell you. Ask for customer service and give them all the watch details. I recently spoke to them regarding what was replaced on a 16700 I was looking at.

[springer]

The patina is more than "a little off" between the makers and hands. Based on the photos, I'd venture to say they have been replaced. Of course hands replaced during a service in 2015 would be luminova which would be whiter than original tritium hands and also glow very bright. The possibility also exists that they are replacement tritium hands from a previous service years ago which would still have some glow left to them.

[brettpaul]

Really appreciate all the input from everyone - cheers!


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[Qwerty01]

Nice one! some of these watches the hands and the lume dots ages differently

[brettpaul]

Hey gents - did a lume test and the lume is completely dead as I'd expect - this aligns with the paperwork supporting the fact the hands were not changed.

Thank you all again for your help!


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[swish77]

How do you know that the hands weren't changed at a different service? They could be a newer set of tritium hands whose luminous properties are also dead.

Dial/hands patina can definitely age differently, but I agree with the above that the difference on this GMT is a little too stark to be of the same age. Still, you might never know for sure either way.

Regardless, a very cool GMT with confirmed Tiffany paperwork. Nice!

[strafer_kid]

Really is a very nice one indeed!

[saskmh]

Pictures can be deceiving. I have a gmt from the mid 80s and in some pics I have taken the lume looks bright white. In others very creamy. The extreme difference in some of the pics the op has shared could be lighting etc.

Either way I wouldn't care. It's a documented Tiffany GMt! Take it home and enjoy.

[brettpaul]

Thank you all for the comments and feedback!

As far as the lume the only evidence I have is that the seller, a friend from Saudi who is a collector, purchased the watch new and only had 1 service.


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[Tom1675]

Originally Posted by saskmh

Pictures can be deceiving. I have a gmt from the mid 80s and in some pics I have taken the lume looks bright white. In others very creamy. The extreme difference in some of the pics the op has shared could be lighting etc.

Either way I wouldn't care. It's a documented Tiffany GMt! Take it home and enjoy.

Lume patina can look different in pics without question, but I have yet to see it somehow increase the contrast from hand to dial in several pics with different angles.

Your second point is well taken, if this is a documented Tiffany and you are satisfied with the paperwork, and you're ready to kick down the kind of cash it will take to get this watch then go source some matching hands and enjoy!

[saskmh]

After taking a closer look at the later batch of pics I agree there is more of a difference than I had originally though. I would still snap it up and take it home