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jas55 · 2 January 2009, 06:52 PM

why are Patek Philippe watches so exspensive? Are all of their models solid gold?

I have been told that they are possibly even better than Rolex, but they are at least 2 or 3 times more expensive. I thought Rolex was the only company in the world that made all of it's own movements, parts etc.

L-16610 · 2 January 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas55

why are Patek Philippe watches so exspensive? Are all of their models solid gold?

I have been told that they are possibly even better than Rolex, but they are at least 2 or 3 times more expensive. I thought Rolex was the only company in the world that made all of it's own movements, parts etc.

A lot of company's make their own movements
some of them use only inhouse movements others have inhouse + not inhouse

JLc, AP, Patek, Lange, Zenith, GP, ..... they all make own movements

why is it more expensive ? because it is finished 100 times better. and that's what's it's all about in top watchmaking.

If you need a watch which you can use for everything a Rolex is a good option but when you want something more, a Patek comes to mind first.

Search for the Patek threads on this forum and try to see some pictures. theis movements are art

GMTJOHNNY · 3 January 2009, 01:05 AM

I thought the same. I don't see any COSC certificates for Patek for 2007, and not sure how accurate they are. Their complications seem accurate though.
Too delicate a timepiece for my activities, but certainly nice to look at.

unknown · 3 January 2009, 02:05 AM

COSC certificates are a useless marketing gimmick

Today almost EVERY watch will be good enough to get the COSC

Patek is so much better and doesn't need that piece of paper.
COSC is for Rolex, Omega, Breitling, ... Patek, Lange, Breguet, VC , ... don't need it :)

WatchTimes · 3 January 2009, 02:20 AM

Patek is an AMAZING watch.
I bet Rolex produces as many watches in a 1/4 as Patek in the whole year
(I bet its an even higher ratio than that but to be safe I said 1/4)

Patek makes quite a bit more of the watch by hand than Rolex.

Rolex is a GREAT TOUGH DAILY WATCH BUT they are not exclusive like
Patek and others on that level.

I LOVE the Patek slogan "You never own a Patek, you just hold it for the next generation"

I have decided I will get a Patek the year I have a child (if its a boy) for sure!
And when he finishes school I will pass it on to him.

unknown · 3 January 2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYogi

Patek is an AMAZING watch.
I bet Rolex produces as many watches in a 1/4 as Patek in the whole year
(I bet its an even higher ratio than that but to be safe I said 1/4)

Patek makes quite a bit more of the watch by hand than Rolex.

Rolex is a GREAT TOUGH DAILY WATCH BUT they are not exclusive like
Patek and others on that level.

I LOVE the Patek slogan "You never own a Patek, you just hold it for the next generation"

I have decided I will get a Patek the year I have a child (if its a boy) for sure!
And when he finishes school I will pass it on to him.

year production

Patek 40.000 ( 28.000 manual wind, 12.000 quartz mostly rhe twenty4 which is for woman)

Rolex between 800.000 and 1.000.000

yes, your 1/4 is pretty safe ;-)

jas55 · 3 January 2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYogi

Patek is an AMAZING watch.
I bet Rolex produces as many watches in a 1/4 as Patek in the whole year
(I bet its an even higher ratio than that but to be safe I said 1/4)

Patek makes quite a bit more of the watch by hand than Rolex.

Rolex is a GREAT TOUGH DAILY WATCH BUT they are not exclusive like
Patek and others on that level.

I LOVE the Patek slogan "You never own a Patek, you just hold it for the next generation"

I have decided I will get a Patek the year I have a child (if its a boy) for sure!
And when he finishes school I will pass it on to him.

That sounds like a nice idea. I would also like to keep and pass on my watches to family as well

jas55 · 3 January 2009, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unknown

year production

Patek 40.000 ( 28.000 manual wind, 12.000 quartz mostly rhe twenty4 which is for woman)

Rolex between 800.000 and 1.000.000

yes, your 1/4 is pretty safe ;-)

Wow, now I see why there so exspensive.

rpryan55 · 3 January 2009, 05:53 AM

They are expensive in part because they routinely bid on their own offerings at Antiquarium and other auction houses to artificially jack up the prices of their vintage pieces. Don't get me wrong, I own a couple of PPs, but no watch that just tells the time and date is worth 30K+. Some of their beautifully crafted grand complications are a thing of artistry to wonder at, but in general their prices are way out of line. Just my $0.02.

topcat30093 · 3 January 2009, 08:49 AM

Dick
I agree in part with what you say about PP buying some of their own Grand Compliation watches, which will then appear in their museum
But if you think that their prices "Are way out of line" why do you own a couple?

I wear my PP every day which includes work and its far from being an office job.

RolexPete32 · 3 January 2009, 08:52 AM

I want one for me and my wife but lets face it. Before that happens we need a high end car.

Jedi · 3 January 2009, 10:18 AM

Patek only sends in their tourbillon pieces for COSC certification.

rpryan55 · 3 January 2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat30093

Dick
But if you think that their prices "Are way out of line" why do you own a couple?

Tony -
Because I never, ever, ever, ever pay MSRP for any watch I own. And the two I have I got at a tremendous discount from my favorite AD. And by "tremendous" discount, I mean over 30%.

Patek Philippe's prices are way out of line, but my AD is not.

But let me be clear about what Patek does - Patek puts up one of the watches Patek owns for auction through an auction house (Antiquarium, for instance, since they've admitted that they helped do this with PP). Patek then bids, through straw bidders, that same watch up to obscene money until Patek "wins" the auction of its own watch for some crazy amount. Patek then pays the auction house a fee for the auction, but since Patek owned the watch in the first place, Patek doesn't pay that obscene amount for the watch. Patek then reports, "Patek Philippe watch goes for (insert obscene amount here) at Antiquarium (or other auction bouse)". Patek advertises that and then advises potential customers, "it's not a purchase, it's an investment." I found this out AFTER I bought my PPs, by the way. I think they're con artists - they make a good watch, even some great ones, but they're con artists nonetheless.

Jedi · 3 January 2009, 06:58 PM

Far as I know they bid on PP watches that had come up for auction. First time I've heard about them bidding on things they already own.

Alcan · 3 January 2009, 10:12 PM

Here are a few PP and Antiquorum related hits.

http://www.connectingwatches.com/Wat...es-001511.html

http://www.watchesplex.com/blog/view...s-10-December/

http://www.antiquorum.com/eng/press/...esults_eng.htm

topcat30093 · 3 January 2009, 11:32 PM

Dick
I think that you have got an excellent working relationship with your AD

.And it must be a great feeling when you are able to complete a deal with that great deal of discount allowed against a watch, especially when its reputed that most dealers have "only" a mark up of 40%.
If I was able to get that amount of discount, I too would be happy to buy some further watches.

Regarding your second point regarding PP and the auction houses.
I'm not knowledgeable to know whether, what you are saying is true or not.
But I feel that calling Patek Phillipe "Con Artists" is a little bit on the strong side.
I suppose I could say, that virtually any of the top brands could be con artists.
Because the cost of producing a watch will only be a fraction of what we actually pay for them.
Still its food for thought

rpryan55 · 4 January 2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedi

Far as I know they bid on PP watches that had come up for auction. First time I've heard about them bidding on things they already own.

There was, to be fair, only a single instance mentioned about Patek doing this, and many, many more instances of them bidding up Patek's offerings in order to increase the price. Still, to my mind, a con.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcan

Here are a few PP and Antiquorum related hits.

http://www.connectingwatches.com/Wat...es-001511.html

Unsurprised to find fan forums disputing the veracity of investigative journalists. Nonetheless, the auctions are simply not what they seem.

rpryan55 · 4 January 2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat30093

Dick
Regarding your second point regarding PP and the auction houses.
I'm not knowledgeable to know whether, what you are saying is true or not.
But I feel that calling Patek Phillipe "Con Artists" is a little bit on the strong side.
I suppose I could say, that virtually any of the top brands could be con artists.
Because the cost of producing a watch will only be a fraction of what we actually pay for them.
Still its food for thought

Somewhere in the archived threads here I posted the link to a Wall Street Journal invetigative piece about this practice. Search on the WSJ website and you'll find the piece, and then, if you are so inclined, do a bit more searching and you'll find the rest of the story. It is simply underhanded - simply unbecoming of a fine watchmaker - to engage in this type of chicanery.

Jedi · 4 January 2009, 03:21 AM

Yes, I am aware of them bumping up prices, but if people are still willing to pay, it is still an indication of the strength of the brand in terms of value retention and appreciation.

asadtiger · 4 January 2009, 03:28 AM

simple..for everyday one thinks of rolex and Omega and all...but for World Presidents and Billionaires running the world, one thinks of Patek, Breguet, AP, Blancpain etc so they are priced like that

rpryan55 · 4 January 2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedi

Yes, I am aware of them bumping up prices, but if people are still willing to pay, it is still an indication of the strength of the brand in terms of value retention and appreciation.

Well said, and point taken. Thank you, Lee, for this perspective on the scandal. This particular statement certainly provided me with another way to look at it. It's why I come to this forum, to see things through another's eyes, and to learn. Have a great New Year, my friend!

Spencer · 4 January 2009, 12:55 PM

Patek's are far more unique and rare. Not every Joe owns a Patek whereas Rolexes are FAR more common.

Jedi · 4 January 2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpryan55

Well said, and point taken. Thank you, Lee, for this perspective on the scandal. This particular statement certainly provided me with another way to look at it. It's why I come to this forum, to see things through another's eyes, and to learn. Have a great New Year, my friend!

No problem Dick, and I hope you had a good Holiday too.

I was just wondering, which PP's do you own?

I have a 5165 and a 5296G.

Cato · 4 January 2009, 08:52 PM

I just looked at some used Pateks at Tourneau in Century City. I'm sorry to say I was disappointed. It could have been that they were used, but they didn't seem as grand as the Rolexes or even JLC. The only thing that was awesome were the prices. I must be too bourgeois to appreciate the brand.

jas55 · 4 January 2009, 09:02 PM

Yes, they sure are exspensive. I still think a Rolex collection looks about the most prestigious of the watch brands

topcat30093 · 4 January 2009, 11:08 PM

Dick
Thanks for the info on the article, I found that it made for interesting reading. And did alow me to see more readily your point of view.
And I think that Lee's point was also very well put across. As well as being a very valid point.

topcat30093 · 4 January 2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas55

Yes, they sure are exspensive. I still think a Rolex collection looks about the most prestigious of the watch brands

jas,IMO Rolex is certainly a prestigious brand and their watches are without doubt one of the finest made.

But I feel that they are only one of a number of brands that are entitled to be called prestigious.
Up until 12 months ago I believed that Rolex made the number one watch in the world. But since then my eyes have been opened to so many other brands that equally as well made or even better.

lotuseater05 · 5 January 2009, 12:17 AM

Talking to my local AD, off the record, he doesn't even count Rolex in the top 5 makers of watches that he sells. Patek, JLC, AP, V&C, Breguet & Frank Muller (once of Patek) all rank much higher. You only have to look at the quality of finish and the complications built in to the movements to see why they cost so much more.
I'm a Rolex man through and through and would never swap my 16760 but I can appreciate that there are better watches out there - at a price.
Rolex offer a quality timepiece that can be worn every day at a price that most can hope to aspire to. They are not the pinacle of watch manufacturing.

rpryan55 · 5 January 2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedi

No problem Dick, and I hope you had a good Holiday too.

I was just wondering, which PP's do you own?

I have a 5165 and a 5296G.

I own a 5166-1A (which has been discontinued) and a 5711G. If I had it to do all over I would have gotten a 5296G - it is THE quintessential dress watch. And, despite my misgivings about the Stern family's business practices, the 5146G still calls my name.....(I'd like a different engine in my next PP, if I get one)

rpryan55 · 5 January 2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat30093

Dick
Thanks for the info on the article, I found that it made for interesting reading. And did alow me to see more readily your point of view.
And I think that Lee's point was also very well put across. As well as being a very valid point.

Thanks, Tony. Lee's right, of course - they are still spectacular watches. And Lee's Calatrava may be the most iconic watch of all time.

2 January 2009, 06:52 PM	#1
jas55 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Lach Location: Western Australia Posts: 759	Patek Philippe why are Patek Philippe watches so exspensive? Are all of their models solid gold? I have been told that they are possibly even better than Rolex, but they are at least 2 or 3 times more expensive. I thought Rolex was the only company in the world that made all of it's own movements, parts etc. __________________ Explorer 2-Polar Omega Seamaster Quartz

3 January 2009, 01:05 AM	#3
GMTJOHNNY "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: John Location: LONG ISLAND, NY Watch: 2007 DAY DATE 18KT Posts: 1,378	I thought the same. I don't see any COSC certificates for Patek for 2007, and not sure how accurate they are. Their complications seem accurate though. Too delicate a timepiece for my activities, but certainly nice to look at. __________________ ROLEX DAY DATE 118238 (2007) ROLEX DAY DATE 18238 (1997) ROLEX GMT 16750 PEPSI (1987) ROLEX AIR KING 14000 (1991) ROLEX GMTIIC TT 116713LN (2008)

3 January 2009, 02:05 AM	#4
unknown "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 2,799	Cosc COSC certificates are a useless marketing gimmick Today almost EVERY watch will be good enough to get the COSC Patek is so much better and doesn't need that piece of paper. COSC is for Rolex, Omega, Breitling, ... Patek, Lange, Breguet, VC , ... don't need it :)

3 January 2009, 02:20 AM	#5
WatchTimes 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: JYogi/Jeremy Location: Metro Detroit USA Watch: It's a Rolex! Posts: 5,446	Patek is an AMAZING watch. I bet Rolex produces as many watches in a 1/4 as Patek in the whole year (I bet its an even higher ratio than that but to be safe I said 1/4) Patek makes quite a bit more of the watch by hand than Rolex. Rolex is a GREAT TOUGH DAILY WATCH BUT they are not exclusive like Patek and others on that level. I LOVE the Patek slogan "You never own a Patek, you just hold it for the next generation" I have decided I will get a Patek the year I have a child (if its a boy) for sure! And when he finishes school I will pass it on to him. __________________ "You won't rise to the occasion - you'll default to your level of training." Barrett Tillman Kentucky Colonel, Tennessee Squire & Combat Leprechaun

3 January 2009, 05:53 AM	#9
rpryan55 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Real Name: Dick Location: USA Watch: SubND,DD,SSDaytona Posts: 2,257	They are expensive in part because they routinely bid on their own offerings at Antiquarium and other auction houses to artificially jack up the prices of their vintage pieces. Don't get me wrong, I own a couple of PPs, but no watch that just tells the time and date is worth 30K+. Some of their beautifully crafted grand complications are a thing of artistry to wonder at, but in general their prices are way out of line. Just my $0.02. __________________ “The only reason for time ....................... is so that everything doesn't happen at once." Albert Einstein

3 January 2009, 08:49 AM	#10
topcat30093 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Tony Location: England Posts: 5,425	Dick I agree in part with what you say about PP buying some of their own Grand Compliation watches, which will then appear in their museum But if you think that their prices "Are way out of line" why do you own a couple? I wear my PP every day which includes work and its far from being an office job. __________________

3 January 2009, 08:52 AM	#11
RolexPete32 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Peter Location: Canada Watch: You know... Rolex Posts: 1,520	I want one for me and my wife but lets face it. Before that happens we need a high end car.

3 January 2009, 10:18 AM	#12
Jedi "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Lee Location: Malaysia Watch: 16750 Posts: 2,534	Patek only sends in their tourbillon pieces for COSC certification. __________________ Lee This is my watch. There are many like it but this one is mine... Flickr Blog

3 January 2009, 06:58 PM	#14
Jedi "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Lee Location: Malaysia Watch: 16750 Posts: 2,534	Far as I know they bid on PP watches that had come up for auction. First time I've heard about them bidding on things they already own. __________________ Lee This is my watch. There are many like it but this one is mine... Flickr Blog

3 January 2009, 10:12 PM	#15
Alcan 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Al Location: Way Up North Watch: your P's & Q's Posts: 10,473	Here are a few PP and Antiquorum related hits. http://www.connectingwatches.com/Wat...es-001511.html http://www.watchesplex.com/blog/view...s-10-December/ http://www.antiquorum.com/eng/press/...esults_eng.htm __________________ Member #1,315 I don't want to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol IS a solution!

3 January 2009, 11:32 PM	#16
topcat30093 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Tony Location: England Posts: 5,425	Dick I think that you have got an excellent working relationship with your AD .And it must be a great feeling when you are able to complete a deal with that great deal of discount allowed against a watch, especially when its reputed that most dealers have "only" a mark up of 40%. If I was able to get that amount of discount, I too would be happy to buy some further watches. Regarding your second point regarding PP and the auction houses. I'm not knowledgeable to know whether, what you are saying is true or not. But I feel that calling Patek Phillipe "Con Artists" is a little bit on the strong side. I suppose I could say, that virtually any of the top brands could be con artists. Because the cost of producing a watch will only be a fraction of what we actually pay for them. Still its food for thought __________________

4 January 2009, 03:21 AM	#19
Jedi "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Lee Location: Malaysia Watch: 16750 Posts: 2,534	Yes, I am aware of them bumping up prices, but if people are still willing to pay, it is still an indication of the strength of the brand in terms of value retention and appreciation. __________________ Lee This is my watch. There are many like it but this one is mine... Flickr Blog

4 January 2009, 03:28 AM	#20
asadtiger "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Asad A. Awan Location: kabul, Afghanista Watch: Tissot PRX Posts: 2,698	simple..for everyday one thinks of rolex and Omega and all...but for World Presidents and Billionaires running the world, one thinks of Patek, Breguet, AP, Blancpain etc so they are priced like that

4 January 2009, 12:55 PM	#22
Spencer "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: US Posts: 1,338	Patek's are far more unique and rare. Not every Joe owns a Patek whereas Rolexes are FAR more common. __________________ I'm a perpetual kind of guy Resident Audemars Piguet Fanatic

4 January 2009, 08:52 PM	#24
Cato Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Land of the Lost Watch: 116610LN Posts: 2,201	I just looked at some used Pateks at Tourneau in Century City. I'm sorry to say I was disappointed. It could have been that they were used, but they didn't seem as grand as the Rolexes or even JLC. The only thing that was awesome were the prices. I must be too bourgeois to appreciate the brand.

4 January 2009, 09:02 PM	#25
jas55 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Lach Location: Western Australia Posts: 759	Yes, they sure are exspensive. I still think a Rolex collection looks about the most prestigious of the watch brands __________________ Explorer 2-Polar Omega Seamaster Quartz

4 January 2009, 11:08 PM	#26
topcat30093 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Tony Location: England Posts: 5,425	Dick Thanks for the info on the article, I found that it made for interesting reading. And did alow me to see more readily your point of view. And I think that Lee's point was also very well put across. As well as being a very valid point. __________________

5 January 2009, 12:17 AM	#28
lotuseater05 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Mark Location: UK Watch: GMT II 16760 Posts: 88	Talking to my local AD, off the record, he doesn't even count Rolex in the top 5 makers of watches that he sells. Patek, JLC, AP, V&C, Breguet & Frank Muller (once of Patek) all rank much higher. You only have to look at the quality of finish and the complications built in to the movements to see why they cost so much more. I'm a Rolex man through and through and would never swap my 16760 but I can appreciate that there are better watches out there - at a price. Rolex offer a quality timepiece that can be worn every day at a price that most can hope to aspire to. They are not the pinacle of watch manufacturing.

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