Are The Resellers Becoming Too Greedy?

[uhren917]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’m glad to know that when you go to sell your house you will not try to maximize your profit. Please PM me when you do sell your house. I’m sure you will sell it to me at well below market price.

??????????????????? dude what are you talking about???

[Posh Gentleman]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Every morning when a slap one of my watches on my wrist ,I get a kick out of it .
That's true investment.
Its been 20 years .
The most valuables are not always the most enjoyables .Ironic.

Yea, I have no problem spending money on things you will enjoy for years, as long as the spending is done reasonably and intelligently.

I have zero regrets paying the "premium" when I picked up my Daytona C. Hands down the best watch I've owned.

After getting a taste of Daytona, nothing really interests me, aside some PM Daytona, some AP, etc.

What I have difficulty understanding is those crowd that buy and sell watches with speculation of making easy profits, or purely on short term hype.

[Likestheshiny]

If their watches are selling at the same rate they can acquire them, then they're being exactly the correct amount of greedy.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by ricardo-sf

There are some ridiculous postings in classifieds --

like i dont understand why someone would be selling a YM TT RoseGold + chocolate dial for over MSRP ..

that is a watch anyone can walk into an AD and purchase today.

Greed is contagious, that's why.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by uhren917

it is easy to just complain and come across as the good guy, but offering nothing in return. I suggest you put your time to better use instead of complaining and open your OWN luxury watch company and LEAD by example and not just words.

What you cannot seem to grog, is that a Rolex is not the same as a roof over your head, or food in your belly or something you need to survive. It is a f**** luxury watch with plenty of alternatives. To equate housing to the unavailability of Rolex SST is moronic.

My problem with threads like this is that it always requires somebody else to fix the problem.

I suggest you move on from Rolex and buy an Omega.

Adding lots of trolls to the ignore bin today... hahaha

[drfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

Conditioned? Are you joking? What is normal? Demand is outstripping supply, so yes, empty cases are normal in that situation. How is that stupid?



100%. So many people wearing Rolex's who probably don't even know how to tell time.



I don't need to try harder. It's the truth. To get upset that you can't instantly gratify yourself, or call the free market greedy is ridiculous.

Rolex doesn't seem to care, why does anyone else.

Originally Posted by Jagamov

I'm following you for sure, and to be honest, I don't disagree with anything you said.

Let me try another way. The fact that you can go to the AD and the cases are empty means demand is outstripping supply. Now, if we want to say the demand is fake, then it's the GD and flippers who are the demand. That's still demand whether we like it or not. Now, if we stop buying from the GD/flippers, then the supply at the AD will improve and the flippers and GD's will move on to something else.

Entitlement comes into play when someone gets upset because they can't just walk in and buy whatever they want when they want. Whether this is the AD's fault for backdooring or VIPing, or Rolex's for restricting supply, it doesn't give anyone the right to get over the top upset about it or feel entitled to be able to buy right then and there.

I agree it's lame...TM is the worst, but they actively promote that business model. I don't think Rolex does this intentionally. It's just the climate of influencers/instagramers, trying to fit in and be "cool" or John Mayer's fault.

I understand your point.

I would disagree though re: GDs and demand. Obviously they are willing to buy up these watches, creating inherent demand, but since you are starting at significantly inflated prices, the market manipulation doesn't really let you know where the demand lies.

This demand is real when new lines are immediately released but after things set in awhile (BLNR and maybe even Hulk) it's just artificial price inflation.

Hopefully they get caught with all this extra stock and prices decrease.

[Fleetlord]

The greys simply reflect the current market, which is molten lava hot.

Also, the greys have to pay more for people to come off their Rolex, so the margins on Rolex are very tight. They have to pay more to get them...

At some point that will come into play as the greys can't make enough margin off of Rolex and will try to downplay the brand and hype up other junky brands to boost their margins. They will buy those watches on the lowball, then hype them up on YT or IG to sell at high margins.

It was attempted last year, but ROLEX overpowers everything. Total Dominance. We shall see if it happens again.

[dtwer]

The $27K is a way to create the framing effect.

Once that "$27K" frame is out there by enough people circulating it, the initial shock will eventually die down and the frame will be set.

From that point on, any price called by the grays, as long as it is less than $27K, will be considered a bargain.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by uhren917

??????????????????? dude what are you talking about???

Well you called anyone that compares housing prices to Rolex prices a moron. I’m pretty sure you support people charging whatever they want for their luxury items including Rolex. If I’m wrong on that I apologize. But since it appears you do support that but you feel differently about housing I would like to take advantage of your selective generosity when it comes time for you to sell your house. That’s all.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

The greys simply reflect the current market, which is molten lava hot.

Also, the greys have to pay more for people to come off their Rolex, so the margins on Rolex are very tight. They have to pay more to get them...

At some point that will come into play as the greys can't make enough margin off of Rolex and will try to downplay the brand and hype up other junky brands to boost their margins. They will buy those watches on the lowball, then hype them up on YT or IG to sell at high margins.

It was attempted last year, but ROLEX overpowers everything. Total Dominance. We shall see if it happens again.

Nailed it.

[Keepchasing]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Resellers aren't the only ones who are greedy. I'd say anyone who buys as a method of accumulating wealth fits in the same category. If the market prices a watch at a certain price point in the secondary market there is no reason anyone should expect to buy for less than market price on the secondary market. If someone doesn't like the pricing the solution is straight forward, don't buy in that market. Simple!!!

Well said.

[zjd168]

very entertaining thread

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Well you called anyone that compares housing prices to Rolex prices a moron. I’m pretty sure you support people charging whatever they want for their luxury items including Rolex. If I’m wrong on that I apologize. But since it appears you do support that but you feel differently about housing I would like to take advantage of your selective generosity when it comes time for you to sell your house. That’s all.

Just remember, trolls use antagonizing comments to try and make their points more than logic (putting the other person down rather than making any points of substance). Occasionally there is a point to their comments, but often they just endlessly play devil's advocate (because it's about them feeling they are winning and/or bothering you more than it is about really making a rational point). Best thing to do is not feed them...

It's like the grey markets. Stop feeding them and they eventually disappear...

[chadwick4eva]

The market will fill in more and prices will come down. Just people trying to take advantage of a situation with low supply.

[Jagamov]

Originally Posted by drfrankenstein

This demand is real when new lines are immediately released but after things set in awhile (BLNR and maybe even Hulk) it's just artificial price inflation.

Hopefully they get caught with all this extra and prices decrease.

Good chat for sure!! Thanks for the discussion...unlike the Instagram Trolls on here.

Although inherit demand is still demand (even if artificial).

But yes, cannot wait for the day these GD's get caught with their pants down and AD's start begging US to buy from THEM.

[drfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

Good chat for sure!! Thanks for the discussion...unlike the Instagram Trolls on here.

Although inherit demand is still demand (even if artificial).

But yes, cannot wait for the day these GD's get caught with their pants down and AD's start begging US to buy from THEM.

Yes. The downside to the hype and difficult acquisition is eventually people move on. We'll see, I'm not confident it'll be over any time soon.

[tekno]

Anyone who gives an answer you don’t like is a troll. It is absolutely supply and demand. The sellers go up based on how fast they sell out.

I got into watches around 2002-03. Timezone forum I believe. Grey market sellers sold the watches that weren’t moving as I remembered it. My first NOS Rolex was a 2 year old red/black GMT NEW in the box/papers etc. I paid $4400 for it or so - they were LESS than retail. It was a beautiful watch. I regret selling it...

David SW prices in 09 weren’t high.

Y’all have SIXTY or more years worth of Rolex sports watches to choose from and you hyper focus on the new watches... That is y’alls choice.

[JR16]

To answer the OP, if a TS can sell a SS sub for $27k, then I don’t see why this is being greedy. Sounds like a smart business person. Nobody has to buy it, so why blame the TS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[behardt]

1) I would never sell something for less than it is currently worth (would you?). I would certainly not blame resellers for doing the same. How would that make sense? When you sold your last house, did you sell it for less than it would bring because you wanted to be fair? It's not a life saving drug, it's a watch.

2) I found some value in the hype. I was able to sell multiple Rolexes I didn't really want anymore for great prices.

3) You're not an "idiot" because you pay more for something to get it now. Some people work crazy hours w/ high levels of stress, because they enjoy that game. Many of those people are HIGHLY compensated for those roles (that they both chose and worked for). If two days a year of work pays the difference between having it now and waiting 2 years, why not? It's a luxury they work for and can afford. It's just a choice, just because it doesn't make sense to you or you're not in a position to do it, doesn't mean it's the wrong choice for someone else.

4) How do you define worth/value of an object, if it's not what somebody is willing to pay? Rolex probably has $100.00 worth of raw materials in a SS watch they sell for $5500 to a dealer that then sells it for $9000 MSRP to someone else. Sure they have R&D costs, manufacturing costs, marketing costs, etc.; but not even close to $5500 worth. How about a gold Rolex that is the same as the stainless steel version with an added ~$7,000 of gold =$16,000 value, right. But it sells for an additional $20K beyond that. Ironically, gold is actually easier to manufacture with than SS. The value is not intrinsic, it's all just simply what someone is willing to pay.

My 2 cents.

[tekno]

In TX this is a $11,156.25 watch w/sales tax - I DOUBT you will pay less than retail for a Diamond dial DJ... and this is 36mm, beautiful watch. Stunning.

So he ships it to you for a $200 savings if you don’t get it for less than listed. So greedy.

Now, on to GMT’s... behind door #1 we have a SEL GMT - $10,975 - this looks like a Rolex. Beautifully crafted, well thought out and aesthetically pleasing. Classic. Timeless.


Door # 2, or door x 2 - BLMNOP for $20,575.00 - Hard choice.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by JR16

To answer the OP, if a TS can sell a SS sub for $27k, then I don’t see why this is being greedy. Sounds like a smart business person. Nobody has to buy it, so why blame the TS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree, he needs to put his $27k in a wallet with BMF embroidered on the front if you ask me, and be awarded salesman of the year.

Same for the guy buying the watch, he is a player too.

The guy buying something over retail doesn’t give a flying crap how much it is. Good for them AND the sellers. I GET buying a new Rolex vs used or vintage one.

The new watches aren’t my cup of tea but I get it. If you don’t want to play that game, play a different one. Like I said, there are 60 years worth of Rolex/Tudor. You should see what $10-20K will buy you in the vintage world.

[Ssunnylee24]

They always have been on certain models.

[hnn17]

Originally Posted by Smobews

Either get on an AD list and wait, or pay going market price on gray.

Not in Australia, you can't even get on an ad list and wait, waiting lists are all closed. It's grey or nothing, the greys bought all the ss watches and occupied all the lists.

[Dan GSR]

Originally Posted by TimeAZ

Ok, well, for ORDINARY people, meaning most of us who don't have lucky connections to the owner or management of an AD, your options are really limited.

Option A: Pay $27,000 ,,,,,

Option B: Pay at minimum $50,000,,,,

Option C: get something else. No way a Sub is worth over 20k. Not even close

[2nastie]

Pretty funny how these threads keeping popping up. Majority of us live in a capitalistic society yet discuss Rolex (prices and values) as something extremely socialistic since it is "their hobby."

Ladies and gents, its a watch. It's a luxury watch. You aren't entitled to any special value because you are collector nor is it a right to own one. It's a hobby for you but business for many, many people out there.

Physical transactions dictate price "high" or "low." Grey or re-sellers bear the cost to acquire and the risk of selling. When the market was different years ago, zero people complained about greys selling them a watch cheaper than an AD. Now it's changed.

Oh well, we can't have everything in life. If aren't willing to stick with Rolex, try a different brand. Sure, it's frustrating that you can't get your new shiny toy, but who says you really need it anyways.

...

I'm not saying these prices right now are not crazy, but that's only because I/we have the knowledge of what prices use to be. The world is constantly changing, who knows.... this may be the new norm... or it may not be. I live in the present, so as a hobby or as a luxury item, I chose purchase something when the price is right at that very moment.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by behardt

1) I would never sell something for less than it is currently worth (would you?). I would certainly not blame resellers for doing the same. How would that make sense? When you sold your last house, did you sell it for less than it would bring because you wanted to be fair? It's not a life saving drug, it's a watch.

2) I found some value in the hype. I was able to sell multiple Rolexes I didn't really want anymore for great prices.

3) You're not an "idiot" because you pay more for something to get it now. Some people work crazy hours w/ high levels of stress, because they enjoy that game. Many of those people are HIGHLY compensated for those roles (that they both chose and worked for). If two days a year of work pays the difference between having it now and waiting 2 years, why not? It's a luxury they work for and can afford. It's just a choice, just because it doesn't make sense to you or you're not in a position to do it, doesn't mean it's the wrong choice for someone else.

4) How do you define worth/value of an object, if it's not what somebody is willing to pay? Rolex probably has $100.00 worth of raw materials in a SS watch they sell for $5500 to a dealer that then sells it for $9000 MSRP to someone else. Sure they have R&D costs, manufacturing costs, marketing costs, etc.; but not even close to $5500 worth. How about a gold Rolex that is the same as the stainless steel version with an added ~$7,000 of gold =$16,000 value, right. But it sells for an additional $20K beyond that. Ironically, gold is actually easier to manufacture with than SS. The value is not intrinsic, it's all just simply what someone is willing to pay.

My 2 cents.

Maybe not crazy for all, for me it would turn my stomach paying in the 20s for a SS sub. You are seeing people’s natural reaction to something most people can’t fathom. Not because they can’t afford it, not because they don’t have high level jobs, just people that value the dollar. Now buying a used or discontinued watch from a grey, totally get. Buying a watch that is $1000 or so more than MSRP to avoid the hassle, I get it. It is the huge price tags on the hot watches that is hard to believe people would do it. Don’t judge them or the greys, they can do what they want. But it is a forum where people discuss topics and there are different opinions.

[cvo]

Think about in a positive light, this market helps to increase your watch’s value. It is stirring up the hype for our favorite brand!

[jaykim77]

Aren't we all here because those subs are hyped up? Let's just enjoy the moment. Resellers, grey markets, flipers, or even youtubers, insta, and journalists will benefit out of this hype. For me, just chillin and waiting for my turn to get a text message from AD... hopefully before the world's end!

[JRell]

Originally Posted by cvo

Think about in a positive light, this market helps to increase your watch’s value. It is stirring up the hype for our favorite brand!

This I agree with!

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by tekno

Anyone who gives an answer you don’t like is a troll.

Perhaps you may feel that way personally, but no, that's not the definition of an Internet Troll.