The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29 May 2023, 11:13 AM   #1
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
1960 Rolex Air King Help Needed. Question about Repair

Hi I am hoping someone out there has some useful advice.
I inherited my fathers 1960 Rolex Oyster Super Precision Air King 5500
It was serviced at regular intervals until his health declined. When I received it was gaining 2 hours a day and I had been told by Rolex centers when I called that often if you send into Rolex they may change the nature of the watch with new parts in repairing it as they just return a fully functional watch after repair at a huge cost of course. I want to keep it as authentic as possible as it has sentimental value. I found a local place that was recommended to me but they have had the watch a long time and have not resolved the issue as yet. They are saying after cleaning that they believe it needs a replacement balance spring which are not easily available if at all. So I am still waiting to see if they can get a part.
Any feedback or help is appreciated
Thanks Nelly
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2023, 01:32 PM   #2
hutch300
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,279
You need a good independent for the service and you'll be all set. Who was recommended locally?
hutch300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2023, 01:37 PM   #3
southtexas
2024 Pledge Member
 
southtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Great State of TX
Posts: 5,669
Welcome to the forum Nelly. You don’t need to send it to Rolex, let us know where you live and someone will have a good idea of help near to you.
__________________
Forty six & 2 are just ahead of me.

Follow me on Instagram @ccrolex
southtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2023, 03:00 PM   #4
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
Kelly Hunter (artofthewatch.com) is in Portland, IIRC.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2023, 03:21 PM   #5
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Thanks for the replies I am in Portland Oregon. Any help is appreciated
I gave my Rolex to Larry's watch repair from a recommendation but after almost 3 months I am losing confidence as he keeps saying he thinks someone tinkered with it in the past and he is not sure he can remedy the issue with it running fast. He is saying that he needs a part and mentions the balance and spring which he says cannot be obtained. To my knowledge my Father always had it serviced by respected Rolex repair places in the UK.
Thanks Nelly
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2023, 09:59 PM   #6
ronricks
2024 Pledge Member
 
ronricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ATL
Watch: 126610LV
Posts: 2,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelly001 View Post
Thanks for the replies I am in Portland Oregon. Any help is appreciated
I gave my Rolex to Larry's watch repair from a recommendation but after almost 3 months I am losing confidence as he keeps saying he thinks someone tinkered with it in the past and he is not sure he can remedy the issue with it running fast. He is saying that he needs a part and mentions the balance and spring which he says cannot be obtained. To my knowledge my Father always had it serviced by respected Rolex repair places in the UK.
Thanks Nelly
Get it back ASAP and there is likely a good independent watch maker that can source the parts needed.
ronricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2023, 02:27 AM   #7
hutch300
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
Kelly Hunter (artofthewatch.com) is in Portland, IIRC.
This would be my recommendation as well.
hutch300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2023, 10:16 AM   #8
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Thanks I have contacted artofthewatch as recommended and will pick up my Rolex ASAP
Cheers Nelly
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2023, 10:28 AM   #9
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Cool story about the watch. My father was a young Navigation Officer in Tokyo and won the watch in a game of Poker on shore leave in 1961. From the time I was born he was always wearing this watch his whole life!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_7863a.jpg (81.8 KB, 230 views)
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2023, 12:33 PM   #10
TimeLord2
2024 Pledge Member
 
TimeLord2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Valencia, CA
Watch: GMT Master 1675/3
Posts: 2,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelly001 View Post
Cool story about the watch. My father was a young Navigation Officer in Tokyo and won the watch in a game of Poker on shore leave in 1961. From the time I was born he was always wearing this watch his whole life!
Great story! I would trust Dan’s recommendations, he gives great advice.
TimeLord2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2023, 05:06 PM   #11
Tritiumhands
"TRF" Member
 
Tritiumhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 20
Great story! I concurr, find a reputable independent and they will be able to deal with it as you need. I'm extremely fortunate to be within 20 minutes drive of one of the best watchmakers in the country where I reside, so servicing and repair is never an issue.
Tritiumhands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 June 2023, 07:22 AM   #12
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
I messaged Kelly Hunter at artofthewatch and he said if he accepts the repair the cost could be from $600 to $2500 depending on whether he has to make parts or vibrate a new hairspring. It is a bit concerning as I am not sure I could afford the cost if it was at the upper range.
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 June 2023, 10:23 AM   #13
Ricardo77
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: East Tennessee
Watch: 214 RR Accutron
Posts: 5
"They are saying after cleaning that they believe it needs a replacement balance spring which are not easily available if at all. So I am still waiting to see if they can get a part."

"I messaged Kelly Hunter at artofthewatch and he said if he accepts the repair the cost could be from $600 to $2500 depending on whether he has to make parts or vibrate a new hairspring. It is a bit concerning as I am not sure I could afford the cost if it was at the upper range."

A reasonable price for a good used 1520 'balance complete' is between $250 and $350 in today's market. There is one on eBay now for $312 plus shipping from the UK.
If it needs a balance staff ('axle'), the staff runs about $20 and maybe $50 or $75 added to the service price to install it...in the real world.

Watch out for the 'Doctor Price' on Rolex parts/service.
Good luck!
Ricardo77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 June 2023, 10:45 AM   #14
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Hi Thanks for the reply Is the 'Rolex 1520 balance complete' the correct one for a 1960 Rolex Air King Super Precision watch I have. The other part you think I need is a balance staff? Can you elaborate
Thanks Nelly
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 June 2023, 11:30 AM   #15
hutch300
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,279
Just tell him if it's not a simple fix (in budget) you'll souce the part. Join the VRF and post there as well. The part might take some time but there are people that are willing to help.
hutch300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 June 2023, 12:25 PM   #16
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
The balance complete would include the hairspring and the staff (and balance wheel, etc.). The parts for these common Rolex movements are not impossible to find.

Kelly had to fabricate a staff for me, but it was for an old and uncommon Lemania chronograph movement.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 June 2023, 02:44 AM   #17
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Does anyone know which movement I would need as I saw this article below. As my Air King is the Super precision from 1960 it seems I may need to look for 1the 1530 balace complete vs the 1520. Thanks

'During its run, the Rolex Air-King 5500 was issued with two different movements – the Cal. 1520 and the Cal. 1530 – neither one chronometer-rated. On many examples, you can easily tell which caliber a model has by the script on the dial. Many Cal. 1520 pieces have the word ‘Precision’ above the six o’clock index, or else no designation at all, while examples with Cal. 1530 movements often receive the ‘Super Precision’ making in the same location. Interestingly, it was the Cal. 1530 which was used first, with the Cal. 1520 not making an appearance until roughly 1963 and remaining in use until the retirement of the reference 5500.
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 June 2023, 10:53 AM   #18
Ricardo77
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: East Tennessee
Watch: 214 RR Accutron
Posts: 5
Find out for sure which movement it is...1530 or 1520 and go from there. The balance and hairspring assembly (balance complete) are not interchangeable because of different 'beat rates'.
Beat rate = ticks per hour, the 1530 is 18,000 and the 1520 is 19,800.

The movement caliber (type) will be stamped on the autowind assembly top plate...hopefully it has not been changed.

I looked the Rolex Air King up on the 'Bob's Watches' website and it says the 1520 replaced the 1530 sometime in 1963. The serial number will give a ballpark date of manufacture and the watch may have the date stamped inside the case back.

I predict that after you finally get the watch up and running, you will know a LOT more about vintage Rolex Air Kings than you ever wanted to know.
That is what happened to me. Ha!
Ricardo77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 June 2023, 04:42 PM   #19
CTech
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 409
The 1530 and the 1520 movements have a large number of identical parts and it is often difficult to know how a movement started out as a lot of parts get swapped during servicing over the last 60 years or so. There were many versions of each movement produced as technical improvements were introduced during the manufacturing period, and also some markets had movements made with different jewel counts.

As stated above, the earlier 1530 movement had a frequency of 18,000 beats per hour whereas the later 1520 movement had a frequency of 19,800 beats per hour.

The two balance assemblies are different as the 1530 had a Brequet overcoil and Microstella adjustment whereas the 1520, intended to be a cheaper movement, had a flat hairspring and a stick type regulator.

The rest of the movement is virtually identical as only the third wheel was changed to accommodate the different beat rate.

Now comes the interesting part; you can fit a 1520 (19,800 beat) balance assembly into a 1530 movement designed for the 18,000 beat balance, and this has been a common modification by watchmakers unable to repair or source a 1530 balance.

If you change the third wheel for one geared for a 1520 balance frequency of 19,800 beats per hour all will be well and the movement can be regulated.

If however, a 1520 balance assembly is put in and the original 1530 third wheel is kept in the train the movement will run 10% fast.

10% of 24 hours is 2.4 hours and the OP said this movement was gaining about 2 hours per day.

Is that a coincidence or does it indicate that this might be a 1530 movement with a 1520 balance assembly and the wrong third wheel?

Whatever the cause, a skilled watchmaker with experience of these two movements should be able to sort it out and if there are none local to the OP willing or capable of taking on the job then there are others in the San Francisco or Los Angeles area who could do the job.

One that I know quite well would probably do a complete service for about $500 + parts so I would budget around $800 for this. The estimate of up to $2500 is outrageous and is probably based on the fact that the watchmaker hasn't yet examined the movement and just wants to cover all eventualities.

Communication by phone or email when trying to explain these types of issues is generally not easy, and it is far better to take the watch to someone you trust, tell them the symptoms and any other information you might have about its service history and let them examine it, disassemble it and then produce an estimate or quote based on what they find.
CTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 June 2023, 09:02 AM   #20
nelly001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Real Name: Nelly
Location: PNW
Watch: Rolex Air King
Posts: 8
Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated
nelly001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 June 2023, 09:34 AM   #21
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTech View Post
The 1530 and the 1520 movements have a large number of identical parts and it is often difficult to know how a movement started out as a lot of parts get swapped during servicing over the last 60 years or so. There were many versions of each movement produced as technical improvements were introduced during the manufacturing period, and also some markets had movements made with different jewel counts.

As stated above, the earlier 1530 movement had a frequency of 18,000 beats per hour whereas the later 1520 movement had a frequency of 19,800 beats per hour.

The two balance assemblies are different as the 1530 had a Brequet overcoil and Microstella adjustment whereas the 1520, intended to be a cheaper movement, had a flat hairspring and a stick type regulator.

The rest of the movement is virtually identical as only the third wheel was changed to accommodate the different beat rate.

Now comes the interesting part; you can fit a 1520 (19,800 beat) balance assembly into a 1530 movement designed for the 18,000 beat balance, and this has been a common modification by watchmakers unable to repair or source a 1530 balance.

If you change the third wheel for one geared for a 1520 balance frequency of 19,800 beats per hour all will be well and the movement can be regulated.

If however, a 1520 balance assembly is put in and the original 1530 third wheel is kept in the train the movement will run 10% fast.

10% of 24 hours is 2.4 hours and the OP said this movement was gaining about 2 hours per day.

Is that a coincidence or does it indicate that this might be a 1530 movement with a 1520 balance assembly and the wrong third wheel?

Whatever the cause, a skilled watchmaker with experience of these two movements should be able to sort it out and if there are none local to the OP willing or capable of taking on the job then there are others in the San Francisco or Los Angeles area who could do the job.

One that I know quite well would probably do a complete service for about $500 + parts so I would budget around $800 for this. The estimate of up to $2500 is outrageous and is probably based on the fact that the watchmaker hasn't yet examined the movement and just wants to cover all eventualities.

Communication by phone or email when trying to explain these types of issues is generally not easy, and it is far better to take the watch to someone you trust, tell them the symptoms and any other information you might have about its service history and let them examine it, disassemble it and then produce an estimate or quote based on what they find.
Times like this, I wish that RF had a "like" button.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 June 2023, 02:49 AM   #22
watchmaniacgollumfox
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
That's awesome that you inherited your father's vintage Rolex—it must hold so much sentimental value for you. It's a bummer that it's been gaining time, but I totally get your concern about maintaining its authenticity.
watchmaniacgollumfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.