Cases being redone. Blessing or a curse?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I have a pet theory that many expectations about how cases came out of the factory are too high.

When one looks at historical Rolex catalogues or advertising they’re full of watches that would be called polished or asymmetrical.

I think a lot of our desires for super thick cases aren’t necessarily based on ‘originality’.

Very true. Even the watches in the Rolex manuals didn't always look "untouched." Here's a DRSD (oddly shown in a 1979 Sub booklet after red dials were no longer made) that has what I'd consider skinny crown guards and lugs that appear polished. I've owned three 1665s, and all three had thicker cases than what is portrayed here.

[tekno]

So here is a link to what isn’t OK with polishing. If you buy a watch assume it MAY have been polished. If you are about to pay a premium ask someone prior.

If you have guys making an extra $500-1000 off a sucker new to Rolex or vintage that’s unfortunate but the true crime is happening at the opposite end of the market. I believe this sold @ Phillips in HK.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CjvExDNL..._web_copy_link

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by tekno

So here is a link to what isn’t OK with polishing. If you buy a watch assume it MAY have been polished. If you are about to pay a premium ask someone prior.

If you have guys making an extra $500-1000 off a sucker new to Rolex or vintage that’s unfortunate but the true crime is happening at the opposite end of the market. I believe this sold @ Phillips in HK.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CjvExDNL..._web_copy_link

I think It remains a matter of personal preference...
Personally, I am not attracted by the the case on top, it is soft (certainly already polished) and full of dents, while the one on the bottom is sharp and nicely restored to my eyes.

I might have misread the article but I don't see any evidence that the dents on the bottom have been made on purpose to screw a potential buyer :-(...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

I might have misread the article but I don't see any evidence that the dents on the bottom have been made on purpose to screw a potential buyer :-(...

Yes, that is what the ariticle/post says. That the dents/scratches are fake, intentionally added to deceive. You can usually tell (but maybe not always) when scratches are artificial.

Here's my 1973 5512, which I've owned about 15 years. It was already very raw when I got it, and I used to wear it a lot, so I've made it worse. I love this natural tool-watch look on a vintage Rolex, but it's got to be natural, not artificially aged. This look is not for everyone, of course, and I understand why some guys restore cases because they don't like this raw look. It actually looks a lot worse in close-up photos than in real life. Time for some Polywatch!

[tekno]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

I think It remains a matter of personal preference...
Personally, I am not attracted by the the case on top, it is soft (certainly already polished) and full of dents, while the one on the bottom is sharp and nicely restored to my eyes.

I might have misread the article but I don't see any evidence that the dents on the bottom have been made on purpose to screw a potential buyer :-(...

I’m PRO polish… 110% I really don’t hate the original case in the thread, but the polished one looks great with the artificial wear. I like it. I just don’t agree with the tactics used by whoever seller is.

I ruined my dads DJ 160133 box/papers by over polishing over years and it’s getting a face lift right now.

I just wanted to show that it’s a good thing but if used for the wrong reasons it’s not. Just like anything else. I think everyone here would be skeptical of the “unpolished” claim until they saw proof, then still I don’t know there would be a premium.


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[TuRo]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, that is what the ariticle/post says. That the dents/scratches are fake, intentionally added to deceive. You can usually tell (but maybe not always) when scratches are artificial.

Here's my 1973 5512, which I've owned about 15 years. It was already very raw when I got it, and I used to wear it a lot, so I've made it worse. I love this natural tool-watch look on a vintage Rolex, but it's got to be natural, not artificially aged. This look is not for everyone, of course, and I understand why some guys restore cases because they don't like this raw look. It actually looks a lot worse in close-up photos than in real life. Time for some Polywatch!

Tbh that's exactly how I like my 1953-99 / 37-40mm subs.

Nice recessed to bezel dome plexi too.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by tekno

I’m PRO polish… 110% I really don’t hate the original case in the thread, but the polished one looks great with the artificial wear. I like it. I just don’t agree with the tactics used by whoever seller is.


I just wanted to show that it’s a good thing but if used for the wrong reasons it’s not. Just like anything else. I think everyone here would be skeptical of the “unpolished” claim until they saw proof, then still I don’t know there would be a premium.


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I agree... and I can understand that these are dishonest technic to raise the price of such an expensive watch.

On the other hand the author should In my opinion bring more proofs, here personally I cannot exclude that the watch has been worn after being restored and got dented left and right....
What is shown above by swish is a good example of how during the time a well maintained tool watch can be scratch and dented ...and this could have happened to the SCG shown by perezscope...

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, that is what the ariticle/post says. That the dents/scratches are fake, intentionally added to deceive. You can usually tell (but maybe not always) when scratches are artificial.

Here's my 1973 5512, which I've owned about 15 years. It was already very raw when I got it, and I used to wear it a lot, so I've made it worse. I love this natural tool-watch look on a vintage Rolex, but it's got to be natural, not artificially aged. This look is not for everyone, of course, and I understand why some guys restore cases because they don't like this raw look. It actually looks a lot worse in close-up photos than in real life. Time for some Polywatch!

Beautiful case. Could be the angle, but is the crown guard nearest to 6 o’clock thinner than the one at 12? Thought these would be symmetrical.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Beautiful case. Could be the angle, but is the crown guard nearest to 6 o’clock thinner than the one at 12? Thought these would be symmetrical.

You are correct. Good eye. It's a well-known quirk on old Subs from the '70s, and earlier. The crown guards and lugs weren't always perfectly symmetrical when the watches left the factory.

It's more apparent from a frontal view, but it's minor. One thing to notice is how square the ends of original crown guards were. When these cases are polished, they often lose that look.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, that is what the ariticle/post says. That the dents/scratches are fake, intentionally added to deceive. You can usually tell (but maybe not always) when scratches are artificial.

Here's my 1973 5512, which I've owned about 15 years. It was already very raw when I got it, and I used to wear it a lot, so I've made it worse. I love this natural tool-watch look on a vintage Rolex, but it's got to be natural, not artificially aged. This look is not for everyone, of course, and I understand why some guys restore cases because they don't like this raw look. It actually looks a lot worse in close-up photos than in real life. Time for some Polywatch!

This one is perfect. Beautiful watch, I think non symmetrical is pretty normal on the earlier sports watches isn’t it?

Only recently have we done recut more precisely. The reason being, if you pay $1000 to recut/fix a case a lot of ppl may not like it being leaner on one side, even if it is correct.

I personally would want it to look as close to the real thing.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

I agree... and I can understand that these are dishonest technic to raise the price of such an expensive watch.

On the other hand the author should In my opinion bring more proofs, here personally I cannot exclude that the watch has been worn after being restored and got dented left and right....
What is shown above by swish is a good example of how during the time a well maintained tool watch can be scratch and dented ...and this could have happened to the SCG shown by perezscope...

I’m not saying he is 100% right, he makes some wild claims but I’m pretty sure he picks on some unsavory characters.


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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

I agree... and I can understand that these are dishonest technic to raise the price of such an expensive watch.

On the other hand the author should In my opinion bring more proofs, here personally I cannot exclude that the watch has been worn after being restored and got dented left and right....
What is shown above by swish is a good example of how during the time a well maintained tool watch can be scratch and dented ...and this could have happened to the SCG shown by perezscope...

Most likely it IS a dishonest effort to make the watch look old and unpolished, but it's true that we don't know the full story. It's even possible that the owner asked the refinisher to age the case after refinishing it.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Most likely it IS a dishonest effort to make the watch look old and unpolished, but it's true that we don't know the full story. It's even possible that the owner asked the refinisher to age the case after refinishing it.

Sure, this process of trying to screw people is pretty much unacceptable if it is as described by perezscope....fully aligned...

[Jackie Daytona]

It’s a weird opinion I guess but I actually love the idea of case restoration.

There are so many great old Rolex watches that were used as intended for years and can’t imagine the stories they would tell if they weren’t inanimate objects. However after the case has been dinged up extensively and some owner have had services on them that were subpar you see them being used for parts and disassembled and completely unloved. I hate seeing that for these lovely vintage watches when they are fixable essentially almost back to new.

However from the collector side I totally get the curse bit. I wish there was some body overseeing it that could enforce some sort of case restoration standards or something. Like some sort of certification and the understanding they would put a hallmark of the restorers initials under a lug or something. There are definitely too many unscrupulous seller out there in which I hate and are sort of ruining the whole thing.

[offrdmania]

Im all for encapsulating watches into plastic so that they can be graded and not tampered with, just like baseball cards. Then we can trade them and price them based on their graded number.
Hopefully PSA can pick up on whether or not a case is NOS or has been laser welded. Carbon 14 dating will not be a new factor in grading, determining if the mid cases age matches the tips of the lugs.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Im all for encapsulating watches into plastic so that they can be graded and not tampered with, just like baseball cards. Then we can trade them and price them based on their graded number.
Hopefully PSA can pick up on whether or not a case is NOS or has been laser welded. Carbon 14 dating will not be a new factor in grading, determining if the mid cases age matches the tips of the lugs.

Lol

How many XYZ grade red subs for your milsub?


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[TuRo]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Im all for encapsulating watches into plastic so that they can be graded and not tampered with, just like baseball cards. Then we can trade them and price them based on their graded number.
Hopefully PSA can pick up on whether or not a case is NOS or has been laser welded. Carbon 14 dating will not be a new factor in grading, determining if the mid cases age matches the tips of the lugs.

Funny, but heart-sinkingly the horses have already bolted - I note on the non-vintage section the arriviste collectors spend all day talking about various $500 coatings and quackery potions to protect their hideous Hulk .....

[offrdmania]

The best ones are when they ask where they can get a sticker kit


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[tekno]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Funny, but heart-sinkingly the horses have already bolted - I note on the non-vintage section the arriviste collectors spend all day talking about various $500 coatings and quackery potions to protect their hideous Hulk .....

I have to see some of this. I have told myself to stop replying in that forum, I feel like I have been a little too negative in the past. I just don’t like the new watches and I don’t want to be the guy raining on someone else’s parade because of my personal taste.

I just left the Rolex Boutique in the Houston Gallaria, no I didn’t “get the call”…. I just popped in to try on the new 40mm vs 36mm explorer for a friend looking at buying an explorer. I hate what they have done to the 36mm and the 40 doesn’t look right. My suggestion to him is to snag a 90’s tritium explorer 1.

The one watch that looked “right” was the 36mm day date. The proportions of that watch are attractive.

One thing that was interesting, they didn’t have ANYTHING available in store. Not one watch.


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[tekno]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The best ones are when they ask where they can get a sticker kit


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What’s a sticker kit? Lol


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[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by tekno

What’s a sticker kit? Lol


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here ;-)
https://timeandtidewatches.com/testi...-on-your-sofa/

tbh i saw it once on an AP, it looks real shit and ridiculous in real life...

[tekno]

Good god I have seen it all. This is insane…


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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by tekno

Good god I have seen it all. This is insane…

I don't know why, but I actually find these sticker kits offensive. I realize that sounds like an over-reaction.

[tekno]

It’s offensive, plain bonkers. It probably has something to do with the fact guys are paying over retail for a lot of this stuff. A friend told me today he paid a salesman $1000 cash on the side right after the 41mm sub came out to get one. He can afford to do that and he really wanted it.

I do think we are all bonkers too… I like the old Rolex but it is what it is.

The one thing I fear for us moving forward is parts availability for old watches if they move forward with this whole authorized preowned BS.

I bet they are going to shut down all the AD’s as they open up boutiques.


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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by tekno

The one thing I fear for us moving forward is parts availability for old watches if they move forward with this whole authorized preowned BS.

I bet they are going to shut down all the AD’s as they open up boutiques.

Rolex is definitely choking off the supply of parts, even to independents with parts accounts. My friend and watchmaker (who has miraculously retained his parts account) tells me that each year, the list of parts they will sell him is getting smaller, and this even includes restricting service parts for vintage watches. I don't understand the point, because I really don't think that Rolex wants to deal with servicing these old watches, so what's the harm in providing parts. Various ADs around the country send him vintage watches to repair, but it's becoming frustrating for him, and I think he'll retire soon. Our local AD is preparing to open a service department in-house, which will be interesting.

So far, the certified pre-owned watches seem to be mainly at specific ADs like Tourneau, it will be interesting to see how that develops.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

here ;-)
https://timeandtidewatches.com/testi...-on-your-sofa/

tbh i saw it once on an AP, it looks real shit and ridiculous in real life...

Oh dear dear... what a sissy thing

[lupus66]

When i started redoing cases was a big nono. Things changed obviously.

[lupus66]

Still a bit of a boobjob imo.