Ask an Insider Thread

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by pmb600

That's a better ratio than I thought. Thanks for the info!

Supply has been exceptionally good so far, they've all been selling quickly too

[The GMT Master]

Wow, close to 10000 views now! Quite something! Any more questions for this evening?

[Sixxgrand1]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Breitling (certainly up until around Summer 2010) was very regularly asked for at my place of work, and seemed to be in vogue. We got a lot of customers coming in with Breitlings strapped on, mainly their chronos. Breitling had pretty much cornered the £3k+ chronograph market, largely because:

a) Omega don't have much of a presence in their chronos above £2.5k (Speedy Pro retails at £2300, Speedy Date, another good seller, retails at £2100)
b) They have the aviation watch pitch, which a lot of guys like the idea of
c) Rolex have outpriced and undersupplied themselves on the Daytona, so that can't be a realistic competitor
d) Other brands around the price point don't make as visually appealing chronos either

I think size has a part to play as well - if you wanted a well made, well priced oversized watch, then Breitling was the obvious choice. As for a comparison of the two, simply because the Breitling range is so overloaded with Chronographs, it is difficult to compare. If we're talking about diving watches, Breitling makes some aesthetically pleasing models, but with the new Sub/Deepsea, Rolex is a no-brainer, if I'm honest. The older Subs were much closer to Breitling in terms of fit, feel and finish than the new ones. In terms of movements, a lot of Breitlings are ETA based, but that's nothing to be sniffed at. The new cal. B01 is pretty exciting too, and seems like it's attempting to be a credible rival to the cal. 4130.

Saying all this, Breitling's star does seem to be waning at present. The trend seems to be moving away from oversized watches again, which will naturally hurt them. I think they'll remain an active player, but Rolex are going to be seen as the safe buy in the coming 12-18 months, before things start to pick up again financially

Sincere thanks!

[Alessi156]

Thanks for starting a very interesting thread. I have a couple of follow up questions from replies you have given.

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

They have two outward facing cabinets, and one interior cabinet. We were also asked not to place Omega's cabinets directly next to Rolex's cabinets, so we placed a brand Rolex doesn't see as direct competition next to them.

I'm surprised Rolex consider Omega to be a direct competitor as there is still a significant price gap between the two brands. I know Omega are trying to position themselves as such. Do you find that people come showing interest in both Rolex and Omega? or do people tend to show interest in only one of the two brands?

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

So far we've had 8 LNs and 3 LVs

How does this ratio compare to the 16610 and 16610LV you received? Thanks.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Alessi156

Thanks for starting a very interesting thread. I have a couple of follow up questions from replies you have given.


I'm surprised Rolex consider Omega to be a direct competitor as there is still a significant price gap between the two brands. I know Omega are trying to position themselves as such. Do you find that people come showing interest in both Rolex and Omega? or do people tend to show interest in only one of the two brands?



How does this ratio compare to the 16610 and 16610LV you received? Thanks.

The price difference isn't that significant any more - well, at least prior to yesterday's price rise. If we compare cal. 8500 based models (which are the equals, or arguably superior to equivalent Rolex models), the price difference isn't much at all. Steel Aqua Terras are only a couple of hundred pounds shy of the Datejust, and there isn't a huge difference between the Deepsea and the PloProf. Prices will get closer as more models begin to use the cal. 8500. In addition to this, Omega are also the second most popular luxury brand in terms of sales compared to Rolex - when you look at how many SMPs they shift (both in quartz and Co-Axial variants), that's bound to be taking a chunk out of Rolex's Submariner sales. Rolex don't see TAG as a direct competitor, however, which is quite interesting given their popularity too

As for the 16610 LN/LV ratios, I would probably say 3/4:1 in favour of the black

[jonboy]

can i ask why you feel that the latest sub c is better than the previous model.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by jonboy

can i ask why you feel that the latest sub c is better than the previous model.

Absolutely:

1) Better bracelet - a big improvement in terms of feel

2) Better clasp - the Sub has gone from having a functional but heavily dated clasp to having quite possibly the best clasp on the market. Glidelock is a revelation

3) More muscular look - not everyone is a fan of the super case, but I love it

4) Ceramic bezel - looks great, an absolute joy to turn (ridiculously smooth), and will look just as good in 30 years time as the day you bought it

5) Better lume - Chromalight does appear to have longer lasting lume properties, plus it's blue, which looks cool


I can appreciate the 16610 for being a great watch and a fan favourite, but it does feel like a 20 year old watch these days. The Sub C has had just the right improvements to get it to the top of the pack again

[jonboy]

sorry to keep asking all these questions before i make a decision, but in another post there is a question mark as to whether the sub c is a true divers watch, owing to the limited adjustment on the glide lock. what do you think.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by jonboy

sorry to keep asking all these questions before i make a decision, but in another post there is a question mark as to whether the sub c is a true divers watch, owing to the limited adjustment on the glide lock. what do you think.

That's quite alright, ask as many as you need By not having the extension link as well as the Glidelock, it's not quite as versatile as the Deepsea. Saying that, however, there should be enough adjustment in the clasp to deal with most wetsuits - if worst came to the worst, you could always stick a spare link back into the watch if you knew you were diving, that would give you the flexibility to get it over the wetsuit. Hope this helps!

[Fiery]

When I bought my Sub-C just a week ago, the sales lady at our AD claimed that "When someone wants a Submariner, he wants a Submariner, and nothing else". In other words, she meant when someone walks in to try the Sub-C on, and he likes it, he doesn't think about alternatives. Do you find that attitude common? Are there many guys coming your store with an unquestionable determination about wanting a Sub, and nothing else would do?

I also wonder if you find that common with other Rolex models as well, and whether it is common with other brands too maybe? E.g. I am aware of the popularity of the Omega Planet Ocean, but I cannot imagine anyone going to a store and wanting that watch -- and nothing else as a 2nd option. Don't get me wrong, the PO is a great watch, I had a PO, but when it comes to diver's watches, it doesn't have quite the same pedigree and heritage like for instance a Sub or a SD.

Also, how important WR is for customers? Were there any customers who picked a PO over a Sub, just because WR is deeper on the Omega? Or picked a SD over a Sub only because the deeper WR? I know WR is just a number, and for most customers it's meaningless, but is it used as a "measure" when a customer compares multiple watches?

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Fiery

When I bought my Sub-C just a week ago, the sales lady at our AD claimed that "When someone wants a Submariner, he wants a Submariner, and nothing else". In other words, she meant when someone walks in to try the Sub-C on, and he likes it, he doesn't think about alternatives. Do you find that attitude common? Are there many guys coming your store with an unquestionable determination about wanting a Sub, and nothing else would do?

I also wonder if you find that common with other Rolex models as well, and whether it is common with other brands too maybe? E.g. I am aware of the popularity of the Omega Planet Ocean, but I cannot imagine anyone going to a store and wanting that watch -- and nothing else as a 2nd option. Don't get me wrong, the PO is a great watch, I had a PO, but when it comes to diver's watches, it doesn't have quite the same pedigree and heritage like for instance a Sub or a SD.

Also, how important WR is for customers? Were there any customers who picked a PO over a Sub, just because WR is deeper on the Omega? Or picked a SD over a Sub only because the deeper WR? I know WR is just a number, and for most customers it's meaningless, but is it used as a "measure" when a customer compares multiple watches?

It's hard to say really - you get the types coming in just wanting a Rolex sports watch, so often the choice is between the Sub and the GMT. Other times, people are more single minded, and come in already having made their decision, at which point there isn't much point trying to sell them something else. The only real competitor to the Sub in our range now is probably the Planet Ocean, but it's not far off half the price - for most, they would consider it as half the watch. From a sales point of view, I'd be a pretty bad salesperson if I persuaded someone who wanted to pay £4800 for a Sub to go home with a PO at £2400. A lot of people want to go for the Rolex anyway due to the idea that they're a safe bet, they're not going to depreciate horribly overnight - the actual features of the watch tend to slide into insignificance for most. If it's the first time they're spending a lot of money on a watch, then they're going to want that to fall back on, which you can't necessarily do with a Planet Ocean.

With the nature of Rolex's sports models being quite niche, and unique in terms of their design, you'll often find people wanting specific models, and Rolex only. For example, there are very few watches out there with the purity of purpose of the GMT IIc, for example, and there's not much else out there like a Yacht-Master. There's more competition from other brands on models like the Datejust - the Constellation and Aqua Terra spring to mind from Omega, and they're at very similar price points, offering an equal or better product. The lines tend to blur a bit more on those kinds of models

With the Planet Ocean, it is an incredibly popular watch over here, helped, no doubt, by Bond. It's probably their best selling sports model alongside the SMP, and for most buying an Omega dive watch, it's a toss up between the two models. Some prefer the heft of the PO, some prefer the understated looks of the SMP. Either way, we get a lot of people who just want one of the two, they are held in high regard in the UK.

For WR, most of the time when I talk to a customer about it, they'll just say "Plenty more than I'll need!" and leave it at that - it's not as useful a stat to sell the watches on, but it does come in handy every now and again. For most, it's more to do with how the watch looks and feels on the wrist - higher WR watches tend to be that little bit chunkier and heavier, so they might like the style, or prefer something a little more understated

Hope this answers your question

Chris

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Wow, close to 10000 views now! Quite something! Any more questions for this evening?

Chris,

More than 10000 views at this time. Congrats to a great thread! And, thanks for trying to answer my complicated questions.

Best,

A

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by acce1999

Chris,

More than 10000 views at this time. Congrats to a great thread! And, thanks for trying to answer my complicated questions.

Best,

A

I just wish I could have had an answer for you Anders - thanks for contributing though

Chris

[Fiery]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Hope this answers your question

As always! Thank you.

And I think you had a very good point there, about the price tag of the PO. In case Omega wants to put it against the Sub-C, the PO needs to be more expensive and more unique. I guess at Basel this year a new PO will be rolled out with a new in-house movement (something based on the 8500), ceramic/LM bezel (but without ceramic dial), and a much heftier price tag. Although I'm not quite sure if Omega would risk a +100% price increase with the new PO...

[manandjoe]

What about fake or counterfeit Rolex's?

Do you see a lot in the market? The reason why I ask is because I recently read a thread about fakes entering legit channels. The quality coming out of the east these days is amazing....the tooling and machining. Recently saw a fake DSSD that was amazing. I am not talking about the $50 street vendor but the $500 copies that are in 4th generation of revision.

[Bukfenc]

Hi Chris,

Hopefully you can help with a question that my local AD couldnt answer. Is it possible to order half link or one-and-half link for Day-Date II models? I am thinking of buying a wg day-date II (218239 ref) but without half link I cannot fit it properly, so will buy only if half link adjustment is possible. Thanks in advance.

[Lucy Diamond]

Hi Chris,

I am curious if you happen to get many female customers that are somewhat knowledgable about the Rolex brand?Or do you pretty much only see male WIS's?

Thanks for your time!

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Fiery

As always! Thank you.

And I think you had a very good point there, about the price tag of the PO. In case Omega wants to put it against the Sub-C, the PO needs to be more expensive and more unique. I guess at Basel this year a new PO will be rolled out with a new in-house movement (something based on the 8500), ceramic/LM bezel (but without ceramic dial), and a much heftier price tag. Although I'm not quite sure if Omega would risk a +100% price increase with the new PO...

I have been keeping my eye on the news over on the Omega forum, there was a link to an interview with someone high up in the Omega hierarchy (can't remember who off the top of my head) - there were originally plans to introduce a cal. 8500 based ceramic bezeled PO, but I seem to recall reading that they've been canned for the time being. I think they have to be careful with the PO, no point killing off the golden goose, they must be doing something right to sell so many at the moment

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by manandjoe

What about fake or counterfeit Rolex's?

Do you see a lot in the market? The reason why I ask is because I recently read a thread about fakes entering legit channels. The quality coming out of the east these days is amazing....the tooling and machining. Recently saw a fake DSSD that was amazing. I am not talking about the $50 street vendor but the $500 copies that are in 4th generation of revision.

We see a fair few fakes come through, although it's rare for one to slip through our net. There was just the once where we sent one in for service, and Rolex came back to us saying it wasn't genuine - I didn't get to see that one, but it takes a lot to get through my bosses and our repair clerks, they have a hell of a lot of experience between them. Most of the time, we see £50 Chinatown specials, it can be quite good fun to point out they're fake, especially when it's someone trying to show off to their mates. Sometimes, even though we point out various discrepencies, people can still be convinced it's genuine, especially if it's been left to them in a will, for example. Those kind of moments can be quite uncomfortable.

I've learned to double check if I'm not sure about a watch before claiming it's a fake - when I was first starting out, there was a gentleman (unbeknownst to me a regular customer) who brought in a barked Day-Date in pretty ropey condition - in my naivete, I almost claimed it was fake! Luckily I saw some sense, and double checked with my boss, who then explained all about the bark You live and learn, eh?

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Bukfenc

Hi Chris,

Hopefully you can help with a question that my local AD couldnt answer. Is it possible to order half link or one-and-half link for Day-Date II models? I am thinking of buying a wg day-date II (218239 ref) but without half link I cannot fit it properly, so will buy only if half link adjustment is possible. Thanks in advance.

That I don't know off the top of my head, but I will ask the question next time I speak to the boss

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

Hi Chris,

I am curious if you happen to get many female customers that are somewhat knowledgable about the Rolex brand?Or do you pretty much only see male WIS's?

Thanks for your time!

Unfortunately, I've only really encountered male WISs. Without wanting to generalise too much, most female customers are more concerned with how it looks rather than what movement it has, or what features it offers. A lot actually prefer to have quartz movements instead of automatics - makes the watch slimmer, and there's less maintenance involved. You get others who have worn Rolex for a long time, and just want to have an updated model - I often get the impression that they're introduced to the brand by their partners first, and then get bitten by the bug. I also tend to find that whilst quite a lot of gents are happy to own half a dozen watches, a lot of women are just content with one for every occasion. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is the impression that I tend to get

[GolfPunk]

Hi Again.

Are you able to post a PDF of the new UK Rolex price list up here (if a problem could you email it to me please?) thanks, Gary.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by GolfPunk

Hi Again.

Are you able to post a PDF of the new UK Rolex price list up here (if a problem could you email it to me please?) thanks, Gary.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to it. If you needed any prices in particular, I'd be happy to find them out for you

[skywalker]

Thanks for the information and spending your time, well done.
I purchased my first Rolex a Date 38 years ago and it has never let me down. I wear it constantly and it gets a hard time.
I have decided to treat myself to another Rolex and I am looking at a S/S Platinum Yachtmaster. I have been reading this forum for a few days and this watch doesn't seem to be very popular. Is that your experience and if so why and would this watch stand up to the rough treatment my other Rolex has had?
I also like the GMT master but I must have a white dial, why isn't one available?

Again many thanks.
Luke

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by skywalker

Thanks for the information and spending your time, well done.
I purchased my first Rolex a Date 38 years ago and it has never let me down. I wear it constantly and it gets a hard time.
I have decided to treat myself to another Rolex and I am looking at a S/S Platinum Yachtmaster. I have been reading this forum for a few days and this watch doesn't seem to be very popular. Is that your experience and if so why and would this watch stand up to the rough treatment my other Rolex has had?
I also like the GMT master but I must have a white dial, why isn't one available?

Again many thanks.
Luke

Hi Luke,

I think the Yacht-Master is being judged against other steel models, which, in my opinion is wrong to do so. It should really be judged against TT Sports models, in which case, it doesn't seem so unpopular any more The price can be offputting for many, with it retailing considerably higher than the the Submariner, for example. Some people may not realise the platinum content in it as well, take one look at the price, and write it off. It will stand up to plenty of punishment just like any modern Oyster Rolex, is waterproof to 100m, and has a particularly unique look to it.

If you like the GMT function and want a white dial, surely the Explorer II is the solution? It can display 2 time zones concurrently (as opposed to 3 on the GMT), and has a very understated feel to it. Might be worth considering

[jamesbondOO7]

Well Chris, thanks for this thread. If I were in the UK, for sure I would make a point to see you. Plus do you write well.

[candelmo]

Chris,

I need help with finding the correct box and all other paraphernalia that would have been included with the sale of my watch when it was new. It is a Rolex 18239 Serial "A" which would have been around 1998-1999. I also need a highly recommended Rolex service/repair person that would be local to Orange County, CA. Thanks for any help you can give me. Jim

[dddrees]

Chris, once again I must say an excellent idea for a thread and a real good read.

Thanks,

Dan

[dddrees]

Chris, once again I must say an excellent idea for a thread and a real good read.

Thanks,

Dan

[mambo]

Originally Posted by candelmo

Chris,

I need help with finding the correct box and all other paraphernalia that would have been included with the sale of my watch when it was new. It is a Rolex 18239 Serial "A" which would have been around 1998-1999. I also need a highly recommended Rolex service/repair person that would be local to Orange County, CA. Thanks for any help you can give me. Jim

I have had McCarty's Jewelry on 2nd St. in Belmont Shore (Long Beach) service my sub 3 times. McCarty's has been in business for 80 years I think. The watch guys they send the watch to are 3 generations; grandpa-son-grandson. 2 week turnaround. McCarty's owner (name is Paige/Page I think very nice guy) does dial replacements and has parts and pieces, and they also sell used Rolex watches but are not an AD. I like them and their work has stood the test of time for me.