SS Mania / personal journey (and existential doubt)

[agentq]

[This is more general than just PP, but I figured PP owners would be more likely to have larger collections]

I got into watch collecting about 12 years ago with a nice Glashutte Original Senator, then JLC, some Rolex tool watches sprinkled in, then moving up to "big leagues" with AP/PP/VC/KV/FPJ/etc. At the time, I could only afford stainless steel versions- precious metal watches seemed like a waste (same movement!).

This may sound like a humble-brag but I am really at an impasse with my collection. I never really sold/traded anything so the most appreciated parts of my collection include PP SS 5726 1/A & 5712, AP 15400 Blue & 15202 & ROC Chrono, Rolex SS Daytona/Sub/GMT (BLNR & 16710 Pepsi), FPJ Bleu, VC Overseas Chrono (Blue). All purchased at or below MSRP.

Now in many cases I got lucky (early?) / finagled some good deals, but ultimately I was buying what I liked, not vintage, staying practical with SS choices- and I really like the color blue. But "marking to market" these purchases these days makes me sick to my stomach. I can't even really wear/enjoy these watches that I bought out of horological/aesthetic interest, because how ridiculous the secondary value has gotten. Similarly, because I picked up much of these on grey market @ discount, I don't have the AD relationships to actually get a SS watch I might like.

I'm sure there are many others who have simply followed their interests and are now sitting on a collection that feels overpriced. I had thought of my collection as something I might like to pass down some day, but I wonder if that would be a disservice... should I just unload everything at extreme profit (5726 acquired at 28k, now going for 90k+?!) and switch to precious metal watches? Give up watch collecting altogether? Can this SS premium last more than a few years?

Right now I'm considering dropping just about everything except for Rolex tool watches and FPJ Bleu, and picking up a PP 5146(R?P?) and Datograph and calling it a day. It feels silly to cultivate AD relationships (that I can now afford) via purchasing precious metal watches (at a loss vs secondary) to potentially obtain SS watches. Seems better to realize these SS gains now, maybe get one or two *really* nice complicated watches (maybe a minute repeater), but everything seems topsy turvy.

Anyway, I'll stop here (thanks if you've made it this far). Any thoughts welcome!

[Bearxj86]

I would say try to visit a Journe and Lange boutique and try some of their complicated pieces if they are available.

[qrc36]

I have the same thoughts as you do! I've been very lucky over the years and able to buy most of the hottest stainless steel watches at retail. Now that they are instantly recognizable and have a high secondary retail value, I no longer want to wear them. This is especially in Hong Kong where people are very good at identifying watches. Over the past year I have been wearing less flashy / less recognizable watches (VC, JLC).

The market hype for these steel watches has taken the fun out of it. No longer feel the joy of owning them. I have the same feelings as you do, I just want to sell everything and just keep the ones I really like (5196G + R), and buy some watches which don't have a good secondary market value but will make me smile (Zeitwerk).

In recent months I have sold my (almost) unworn 15400/26331 (with a very hefty profit), and my totally unworn 2020 Pepsi with partial stickers is at an auction house.

Now pondering what to do with my 5711/5712/5726/5164 with blue strap/5212. Depending on what PP releases in the coming few weeks, I might just give up on the watch game since it's not making me happy anymore.

[AshAP]

You’re very lucky to have had a good eye for quality from the start.

I might be wrong but isn’t brand recognition for Lange starting to really increase? Buying a Datograph which is one of their most recognisable models may well put you back in the same position of not wearing it for fear if it’s value and attracting the wrong sort of attention.


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[AG23]

I think consolidating is a fantastic idea. The SS craze doesn’t seem to be slowing, but if you’re not enjoying the watches then it makes sense to move them on, especially at todays prices. I’d do it in a heartbeat, especially for the watches you’re considering.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by agentq

This may sound like a humble-brag but I am really at an impasse with my collection. I never really sold/traded anything so the most appreciated parts of my collection include PP SS 5726 1/A & 5712, AP 15400 Blue & 15202 & ROC Chrono, Rolex SS Daytona/Sub/GMT (BLNR & 16710 Pepsi), FPJ Bleu, VC Overseas Chrono (Blue). All purchased at or below MSRP.

Now in many cases I got lucky (early?) / finagled some good deals, but ultimately I was buying what I liked, not vintage, staying practical with SS choices- and I really like the color blue. But "marking to market" these purchases these days makes me sick to my stomach. I can't even really wear/enjoy these watches that I bought out of horological/aesthetic interest, because how ridiculous the secondary value has gotten. Similarly, because I picked up much of these on grey market @ discount, I don't have the AD relationships to actually get a SS watch I might like.

I hear you and lots of people have shared similar feelings. At the same time this kind of existential doubt has got to be a first world problem like few others. I am wondering how you'd feel if your watches were trading at or below MSRP today. Given that current market prices prevent you from continuing to enjoy your watches I'd start consolidating and see how that goes. If only to test which "tricks" the mind may or may not play on you then. Personally, I prefer owning just a handful of nice watches I really love anyway.

[Ichiran]

Frankly, the price movement doesn't take away my joy of wearing the SS Nautilus and Aquanaut. Maybe it is just me but I felt good with them on my wrist knowing their elevated values. I have always liked luxury SS Sports watches and it was such a pain acquiring them. So why not wear the crap out of them?

[1William]

Interesting situation and one I am also experiencing. I have thought of cashing out of at least a dozen watches and sitting on the sidelines with ample cash and still some cool watches. The limited availability of some of the models and the values make them difficult for me to wear and enjoy. I would prefer to go back to the old days when I thought I had arrived when I had a SS Submariner and a YG Daytona. Might have been happier with my watches.

[David001]

As soon as anything goes up too much it seems to take the fun out of it, I even take special care walking through doorways now in case I hit my watch on the frame - I did it once.

I feel like selling everything, especially the Rolex stuff and only keeping my 5196 and then finding a 5712 and having those two only, and walking away from watch collecting and forgetting about the prices.

[liljctl]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Frankly, the price movement doesn't take away my joy of wearing the SS Nautilus and Aquanaut. Maybe it is just me but I felt good with them on my wrist knowing their elevated values. I have always liked luxury SS Sports watches and it was such a pain acquiring them. So why not wear the crap out of them?

I suppose it helps that you are in the safest country in the world? =)

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by liljctl

I suppose it helps that you are in the safest country in the world? =)

It sure helps and I save on the insurance too. It must be painful insuring these at current market value.

[shkure]

We are having the same discussion on another PP thread OP in case you are interested, can check it out here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=795185.

I think the SS craze is absolutely unsustainable, especially on the high end of the market. Steel watches that used to be had a discount less than 5 years ago are now trading 3-4x retail and into the 6 figures.

in your case, I would certainly trade in both of your steel Pateks for some sort of a Grand complication. An example is 5270P with salmon dial that trades 20% below retail. Thats the kind of watch that usually turns into a small fortune in auction many years from now.

I would also trade some of your APs for a Lange Datograph or FPJ resonance.

Would keep the rest

[lord91]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Frankly, the price movement doesn't take away my joy of wearing the SS Nautilus and Aquanaut. Maybe it is just me but I felt good with them on my wrist knowing their elevated values. I have always liked luxury SS Sports watches and it was such a pain acquiring them. So why not wear the crap out of them?

Exactly! I could only feel great having watches that appreciated.

Consolidating for more complicated watches which one actually likes seems obvious. Especially when most collections have more than a couple of watches that are redundant next to the other.

But the so called anxiety of wearing any longer the watches that were yesterday 30k and now 90k is nonsense. Should we believe that wearing a +/- 300k MR would be relieving compared to a 90k watch?... Please!...

[SL BRABUS]

Yes.... I missed the good old days too, where you could walk into an AD and buy a SS piece for retail or secondary market at a discount....

But let's be honest, the reason for those SS craze price on the secondary market is because people hate buying a timepiece that losing money the minute they walk out of an AD.....

Which, I don't blame them.....

[KBM]

I just said this elsewhere, but there are some mind blowing horological marvels to be had at some of the market prices simple ss time only watches command nowadays.

If the joy of wearing your ss pieces has been affected by their surge in value, by all means, trade them for something that you feel delivers at the level it costs. If you still love your pieces, keep and wear 'em like you stole 'em, imo.

[daOnlyBG]

In my humble opinion, there are five distinct "dimensions" to watch collecting:

Functionality, rarity, brand, provenance, and era.

It seems like you've added depth to functionality and brand. Your Pateks are somewhat rare, but rare only at "list price"- procuring either is not very difficult, so I'm hesitant to say you've added actual rarity (though to be fair, I don't know which FPJ reference you have). Provenance and era? They're modern watches. Unless you bought that 5712 off some actor's wrist, I'm guessing that...meh, there's not much going on in that department.

The good news is that your collection still has three dimensions to grow in: rarity, provenance, and era.

Consider going vintage. You could tackle both by buying a vintage Patek that was owned by the CEO of some oil company or whatever. Perhaps that Vacheron Constantin chronograph that came with papers from the 1930s. Perhaps it's a specific Longines 13ZN variation of which there are only 10 known examples.

Don't want vintage? I've yet to here a rational argument against owning any vintage watch in a collection with modern alternatives- but hey, you still have provenance and rarity. Brands of all types have modern wristwatches that are quite limited in production. For Omega, I'm thinking the Snoopy Speedies (I'd rather have the Caliber 321 "Ed White") and Rolex has the Rainbow Daytona. Hell, Breitling's Superocean Daytona isn't terribly easy to find, either, despite it being priced a little lower than everything else I've mentioned.

As for the authorized dealers? You can begin developing purchase histories and relationships if you'd like, but I don't think the 2021 or 2022's modern watches alone are going to satisfy your tastes. You may want to consider auction houses and trade meetups.

[Partekular]

Thank goodness I only buy watches I like, usually to mark birthdays and anniversaries. As these events increase in significance so do the prices of the pieces. I’m now in PP territory.

Price and value are quite different things. Watches, generally, are not very sensible investments. Luckily, the value of mine makes them priceless.

[cascavel]

Maybe it's just me, but when I buy a watch and, five years later, it's worth twice what I paid for it, or more, it makes me happy. Wearing it makes me happy, even if I only wear it around the house. It validates my taste that the watches that I bought at retail are now unattainable at retail and it relieves the anxiety that I felt at the time of purchase when I was concerned that maybe I had lost my mind spending $25K on a wristwatch. I can now laugh when I remember the nausea I felt buying an AP 15202st after going into the 57th st. boutique, just to browse, and being sold on a model that I didn't know anything about but loved the look of. Buying these watches ten years ago wasn't a no brainer, at that time you knew that when you walked out of the store with your new timepiece it was worth 75% of what you had just paid.
I'm glad that prices for SS watches have reached ridiculous levels and I don't feel sorry for people who have benefitted from it. If you no longer love your watches because they are worth so much more than when you bought them, then sell them and make someone else happy to own them.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by lord91

Exactly! I could only feel great having watches that appreciated.

Consolidating for more complicated watches which one actually likes seems obvious. Especially when most collections have more than a couple of watches that are redundant next to the other.

But the so called anxiety of wearing any longer the watches that were yesterday 30k and now 90k is nonsense. Should we believe that wearing a +/- 300k MR would be relieving compared to a 90k watch?... Please!...

You are so right! I'm not sure I'd feel safe walking around my own house with a $300K watch on my wrist.

[irish john]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Frankly, the price movement doesn't take away my joy of wearing the SS Nautilus and Aquanaut. Maybe it is just me but I felt good with them on my wrist knowing their elevated values. I have always liked luxury SS Sports watches and it was such a pain acquiring them. So why not wear the crap out of them?

exactly my thinking

[macrowatch]

Wow, great thread OP and all. Thanks for the read.

My headspace is 100% where you are at OP. And as Ichiran pointed out, carrying cost of insurance or knowing in the back of my mind the watch is practically irreplaceable has deflated some of the joy.

Not sure where I'll land with the same dilemma, but for now I look down at the wrist and can't bear parting even at these prices.

[Jaypremium]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Maybe it's just me, but when I buy a watch and, five years later, it's worth twice what I paid for it, or more, it makes me happy. Wearing it makes me happy, even if I only wear it around the house. It validates my taste that the watches that I bought at retail are now unattainable at retail and it relieves the anxiety that I felt at the time of purchase when I was concerned that maybe I had lost my mind spending $25K on a wristwatch. I can now laugh when I remember the nausea I felt buying an AP 15202st after going into the 57th st. boutique, just to browse, and being sold on a model that I didn't know anything about but loved the look of. Buying these watches ten years ago wasn't a no brainer, at that time you knew that when you walked out of the store with your new timepiece it was worth 75% of what you had just paid.
I'm glad that prices for SS watches have reached ridiculous levels and I don't feel sorry for people who have benefitted from it. If you no longer love your watches because they are worth so much more than when you bought them, then sell them and make someone else happy to own them.

Facts!

[Monty22]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Frankly, the price movement doesn't take away my joy of wearing the SS Nautilus and Aquanaut. Maybe it is just me but I felt good with them on my wrist knowing their elevated values. I have always liked luxury SS Sports watches and it was such a pain acquiring them. So why not wear the crap out of them?

+1. First world problems. Wear them. If not, sell them. From your story, it appears the joy isn’t there with the current collection. I personally do not think that watches are investments, but if the paper appreciation in value is game-changing $ for you, sell and never look back


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[jerryguo]

social media ruined watch collection as a hobby, i have a good collection now and am searching for the next hobby already.


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[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by jerryguo

social media ruined watch collection as a hobby, i have a good collection now and am searching for the next hobby already.


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I think I’m okay with the social media aspects (even if it’s the source of what I say in the next sentence). I lament the end of the luxury point of sale experience and worse I lament the baseball card trading / Pokémon card trading aspects that fuel the gray ecosystem.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by jerryguo

social media ruined watch collection as a hobby, i have a good collection now and am searching for the next hobby already.


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Agreed. Participating on this forum and looking at the new watch releases is the extent of my interest in wristwatches these days. I haven't purchased or sold a watch in two years and, like you intend to do, have moved onto other collecting areas.

[CastorKrieg]

Originally Posted by agentq

Right now I'm considering dropping just about everything except for Rolex tool watches and FPJ Bleu, and picking up a PP 5146(R?P?) and Datograph and calling it a day. It feels silly to cultivate AD relationships (that I can now afford) via purchasing precious metal watches (at a loss vs secondary) to potentially obtain SS watches. Seems better to realize these SS gains now, maybe get one or two *really* nice complicated watches (maybe a minute repeater), but everything seems topsy turvy.

I have a very similar dilemma having a 5712 and 5167, both bought as MSRP. Selling just 5167 and buying another watch on the secondary market would allow me to massively upgrade my second watch (cannot imagine selling 5712). Although I notice prices for other brands are creeping up as well (Datograph was at 55k EUR, now I see it above 70k).

[3 Putt]

OP...I can relate to your feelings, but with a slightly different context. I have enjoyed watches my entire life from my patent leather red strapped Micky Mouse watch at 5 years old to decades later with a more valuable collection.

Many of my pieces have now doubled and/or tripled in value. However, I do not get double/triple the enjoyment from them. I frequently think of selling to capture the gain and then pursue new brands and models.

In the meantime, I have bought two new watches in the past month. Both Omegas: An Aquaterra rose gold bezel and a solid red gold Planet Ocean. These are beautiful, fit my wrist perfectly and more importantly, they are fun to wear. The fun to wear part is what creates "watch value" to me.

Wearing a $50,000 USD watch does not make you more of a watch guy. Based on your post, you are probably better off capturing the gains and finding something else that speaks to you in a more balanced price/enjoyment voice. Good luck!

[jgottsman11]

If you want to sell you 5712 for a friendly price I'll buy it :D