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Old 26 November 2017, 04:27 AM   #361
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https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=47090
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Old 26 November 2017, 04:31 AM   #362
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Perhaps I am missing it but having read through I don't see any basis described for the deletion of a thread? For example why does the 201st response to a thread get it deleted as opposed to frozen? The answer I think is a fair one but should be articulated. It is entirely up to the moderator to make the call.

It should also be noted that on the other thread I eluded to the moderator states that "personal preferences" are implemented as the " owner sets the tone". Their are several specific rules described that you list but there also exists a subjective criteria under which people can get banned.

The rules that are listed are hard and fast rules and then there are the preferences, decisions, and judgement of the moderators. We participate at our own discretion, we view the content through our own lens, we respond to banishing and deletions on our own terms, but the moderators run the site.

With that I will once again revert to a protracted state of lurker.

Cheers!
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Old 26 November 2017, 04:37 AM   #363
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I'm not a mod, so I can't answer the question. I believe, you have somewhat found your answer. It's the sole disgression of the moderator...
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Old 26 November 2017, 04:42 AM   #364
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Perhaps I am missing it but having read through I don't see any basis described for the deletion of a thread?
Related footnote (always read the footnotes!!!):

"5ii(b): Questioning the deletion of a thread -- 12 points"

I'll see myself out...
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Old 26 November 2017, 05:01 AM   #365
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Related footnote (always read the footnotes!!!):

"5ii(b): Questioning the deletion of a thread -- 12 points"

I'll see myself out...
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Old 26 November 2017, 05:14 AM   #366
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I could be wrong, but I don't think the banning was due to criticism of an AD allegedly going back on their promise to deliver a sought after watch to a customer.

I think the posts devolved into complete lunacy with the claims that the same AD was taking hard to get watches and literally selling them on their pre owned website at a substantial markup.

The witch hunt mentality with which these assertions were received, without any real proof is what led to the banning. An honest well known AD had their reputation libeled as result of an admitted screw up on the part of a salesperson and the rampant posting here afterwards...
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Old 26 November 2017, 05:32 AM   #367
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I think the posts devolved into complete lunacy with the claims that the same AD was taking hard to get watches and literally selling them on their pre owned website at a substantial markup.
I didn’t see Karl post such claims?
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Old 26 November 2017, 05:57 AM   #368
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An honest well known AD had their reputation libeled as result of an admitted screw up on the part of a salesperson and the rampant posting here afterwards...
I have stayed quiet and will continue to but please dont make claims that a salesperson who has worked at the store for 10 plus years went rogue and came up with this proposed deal on her own. I dont plan to comment anymore but that is not fair to her.
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Old 26 November 2017, 06:09 AM   #369
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Perhaps I am missing it but having read through I don't see any basis described for the deletion of a thread? For example why does the 201st response to a thread get it deleted as opposed to frozen? The answer I think is a fair one but should be articulated. It is entirely up to the moderator to make the call.

It should also be noted that on the other thread I eluded to the moderator states that "personal preferences" are implemented as the " owner sets the tone". Their are several specific rules described that you list but there also exists a subjective criteria under which people can get banned.

The rules that are listed are hard and fast rules and then there are the preferences, decisions, and judgement of the moderators. We participate at our own discretion, we view the content through our own lens, we respond to banishing and deletions on our own terms, but the moderators run the site.

With that I will once again revert to a protracted state of lurker.

Cheers!
If being a lurker makes you feel better or safe then by all means go for it. The fact is there are many members who have been here for years that post freely and enjoy the site very much. I have not seen much drama in any other sub forum like we’ve been seeing here in the Patek sub forum. It’s been going on for quite a while and certainly didn’t start with Mike’s thread. The fact is I agree Mike who is a good friend of mine that he got hosed by Govberg. He aired it publicly and it had a good long run. Several members took it way too far and before being removed it was likened to the Hollywood sex scandals a bit of a far reach IMHO. The thread went on and was well past the point of dragging a dead horse. If you all think we are in kahoots with Govberg as alleged by some you are dead wrong. I won’t be shopping there any time soon but that is based on my own feelings not a public execution. You clearly are having a tough time though figuring out how to belong here so perhaps this isn’t the best forum for you. Again it works for many of us and most of the drama on TRF has been limited to here and the RM thread which also seemed to trigger some emotions. So with that said how about enough of the drama and get back to posting about watches. I for one am sick of reading all of these similar threads and posts. Time to get over it or move on.
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Old 26 November 2017, 06:33 AM   #370
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If being a lurker makes you feel better or safe then by all means go for it. The fact is there are many members who have been here for years that post freely and enjoy the site very much. I have not seen much drama in any other sub forum like we’ve been seeing here in the Patek sub forum. It’s been going on for quite a while and certainly didn’t start with Mike’s thread. The fact is I agree Mike who is a good friend of mine that he got hosed by Govberg. He aired it publicly and it had a good long run. Several members took it way too far and before being removed it was likened to the Hollywood sex scandals a bit of a far reach IMHO. The thread went on and was well past the point of dragging a dead horse. If you all think we are in kahoots with Govberg as alleged by some you are dead wrong. I won’t be shopping there any time soon but that is based on my own feelings not a public execution. You clearly are having a tough time though figuring out how to belong here so perhaps this isn’t the best forum for you. Again it works for many of us and most of the drama on TRF has been limited to here and the RM thread which also seemed to trigger some emotions. So with that said how about enough of the drama and get back to posting about watches. I for one am sick of reading all of these similar threads and posts. Time to get over it or move on.
Setting the record straight and being called out, I in no way believe or have insunuated anyone is in kahoots with anyone. To the contrary I have argued your independence in several posts. Others may have but I never have. In fact I have never specified an AD in any post I have ever authored.

I have questioned the terms under which actions are taken. I do so trying to determine if it is worth spending the time to author and submit my views if only to risk having the entire thread disappear. I wouldn't have thought this an existential line of inquiry.

If you can identify any instance to the contrary please remind me as it was not my intent. I have been respectful and cordial throughout. Once again thank you and cheers, but please don't tarnish me for the totally of what others have said.
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Old 26 November 2017, 06:47 AM   #371
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Setting the record straight and being called out, I in no way believe or have insunuated anyone is in kahoots with anyone. Others may have but I never have. In fact I have never specified an AD in any post I have ever authored.

I have questioned the terms under which actions are taken. I wouldn't have thought this an existential line of inquiry.

If you can identify any instance to the contrary please remind me as it was not my intent. I have been respectful and cordial throughout. Once again thank you and cheers, but please don't tarnish me for the totally of what others have said.
I didn't say you did now did I? Go back and read what I wrote again. The fact is you can't let it go. Now you claim to not know how to proceed here without fear of being banned. Why is there no other sub forum here with such drama? Why is that 99.9% of our members are good with the way this forum works? Why is that a handful can't seem to figure it out? Words of wisdom to you: LET IT GO or just move on to another forum. This is way beyond getting old. I have spoken with Mike a dozen times since he posted his thread and he is so over it as am I.
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Old 26 November 2017, 07:09 AM   #372
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The fact is I agree Mike who is a good friend of mine that he got hosed by Govberg. He aired it publicly and it had a good long run. Several members took it way too far and before being removed it was likened to the Hollywood sex scandals a bit of a far reach IMHO. The thread went on and was well past the point of dragging a dead horse.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote and suggest that instead of letting a thread go 28 pages and spiral (too far) out of control, why not lock it at about page 10? I agree that not a lot was said in the last two thirds of that epic thread that wasn't said in the first third. I think it would be a far better result to lock it and leave it as a historical reference rather than letting it devolve to the point where Mods/owners felt it had to be stricken from the record book.

As a humorous aside, I am getting the impression that this will be another thread that goes on for 28 pages, and ultimately gets expunged.
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Old 26 November 2017, 07:14 AM   #373
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I agree with a lot of what you wrote and suggest that instead of letting a thread go 28 pages and spiral (too far) out of control, why not lock it at about page 10? . . . :
Because we saw that some who "can't let go" as was mentioned, began sticking more and more threads on the already worn subject all over the Forum..

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Old 26 November 2017, 07:18 AM   #374
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I didn’t see Karl post such claims?
Hi Russell, Karl was a popular member on here, and it’s commendable that you’re supporting him as I know you are friends, but the mods have their reasons and I’m sure their decision to ban him wasn’t taken lightly. As a friendly comment I’d suggest you accept the decision.
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Old 26 November 2017, 08:07 AM   #375
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I didn’t see Karl post such claims?
He didn't but others did.
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Old 26 November 2017, 08:09 AM   #376
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I have stayed quiet and will continue to but please dont make claims that a salesperson who has worked at the store for 10 plus years went rogue and came up with this proposed deal on her own. I dont plan to comment anymore but that is not fair to her.
Fair enough. I retract that last statement.
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Old 26 November 2017, 09:23 AM   #377
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I could be wrong, but I don't think the banning was due to criticism of an AD allegedly going back on their promise to deliver a sought after watch to a customer.

I think the posts devolved into complete lunacy with the claims that the same AD was taking hard to get watches and literally selling them on their pre owned website at a substantial markup.

The witch hunt mentality with which these assertions were received, without any real proof is what led to the banning. An honest well known AD had their reputation libeled as result of an admitted screw up on the part of a salesperson and the rampant posting here afterwards...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell996 View Post
I didn’t see Karl post such claims?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaSubowner View Post
He didn't but others did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goog53 View Post
I have stayed quiet and will continue to but please dont make claims that a salesperson who has worked at the store for 10 plus years went rogue and came up with this proposed deal on her own. I dont plan to comment anymore but that is not fair to her.
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Originally Posted by NoVaSubowner View Post
Fair enough. I retract that last statement.
Can I assume you are retracting the original post in it’s entirety?
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Old 26 November 2017, 09:50 AM   #378
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Hi Russell, Karl was a popular member on here, and it’s commendable that you’re supporting him as I know you are friends, but the mods have their reasons and I’m sure their decision to ban him wasn’t taken lightly. As a friendly comment I’d suggest you accept the decision.
Thank you for your ‘friendly comment’.

Karl is a friend and I do believe in supporting friends if and when I believe they have been badly treated. However, to be honest it is the Forum and protecting the integrity of PP brand in particular that have always been central to any post I have made.
Knowing Karl the integrity of the PP brand is also central to all his posts - not withstanding a wicked sense of humour in the mix at times.
If Karl stepped over the line and deserved a warning followed by a ban then no problem - but that shouldn’t stop Forum members questioning the decision when a permanent ban is in place and as I understand it no warnings were given.
You will well remember ‘Brian’ and the accusations levelled at me over an enamel piece - well Brian was totally out of order but at no point did I call for him to be banned! People with a watch passion should always be welcomed and if they step out of line there appears to be a clearly laid down warning procedure to calm everything down again - if warnings are ignored well then we all know the outcome.
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Old 26 November 2017, 10:09 AM   #379
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It's easier to watch one than play Whack-A-Mole.
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Old 26 November 2017, 10:16 AM   #380
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Karl was warned to move on, he chose to ignore that request and continued his vendetta.
Govberg admitted it made a mistake.
As to the collateral sale of jewellery with a watch, some don't like that, but the reality is that happens. Its happened to me with a local retailer, I chose not to proceed, but I didn't go on some campaign to try to bring the retailer down. I got over it.
We all have to realise that just because we have the money (retail price) to buy a watch that does not 'entitle' us to buy it. There are many desirable watches where demand out-strips supply.
If you really want a watch and can't get it from a retailer then pay thousands more from a grey-market dealer and enjoy it, but don't cry about the retailer who wont sell a watch to you for retail without any strings attached.

Trolls and negativity will not be tolerated.
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Old 26 November 2017, 10:52 AM   #381
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Thank you for your ‘friendly comment’.

Karl is a friend and I do believe in supporting friends if and when I believe they have been badly treated. However, to be honest it is the Forum and protecting the integrity of PP brand in particular that have always been central to any post I have made.
Knowing Karl the integrity of the PP brand is also central to all his posts - not withstanding a wicked sense of humour in the mix at times.
If Karl stepped over the line and deserved a warning followed by a ban then no problem - but that shouldn’t stop Forum members questioning the decision when a permanent ban is in place and as I understand it no warnings were given.
You will well remember ‘Brian’ and the accusations levelled at me over an enamel piece - well Brian was totally out of order but at no point did I call for him to be banned! People with a watch passion should always be welcomed and if they step out of line there appears to be a clearly laid down warning procedure to calm everything down again - if warnings are ignored well then we all know the outcome.
No need to be confused by what I’m saying. You are continuing to publically question the mods on their decision, when they have said Karl was warned.

I am simply saying I don’t think that’s a good idea.
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Old 26 November 2017, 12:00 PM   #382
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Thank you for your ‘friendly comment’.

Karl is a friend and I do believe in supporting friends if and when I believe they have been badly treated. However, to be honest it is the Forum and protecting the integrity of PP brand in particular that have always been central to any post I have made.
Knowing Karl the integrity of the PP brand is also central to all his posts - not withstanding a wicked sense of humour in the mix at times.
If Karl stepped over the line and deserved a warning followed by a ban then no problem - but that shouldn’t stop Forum members questioning the decision when a permanent ban is in place and as I understand it no warnings were given.
You will well remember ‘Brian’ and the accusations levelled at me over an enamel piece - well Brian was totally out of order but at no point did I call for him to be banned! People with a watch passion should always be welcomed and if they step out of line there appears to be a clearly laid down warning procedure to calm everything down again - if warnings are ignored well then we all know the outcome.
Interesting that what actually finally brought Brian down was his publicly using private messages to also call Karl something he was not and was very offended by. Same characters involved but at other ends of the spectrum.

As mods have said it has happened too much on the PP forum and no surprise that on this and the other expensive forum, RM, some members find it hard to accept they are NOT the boss.
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Old 26 November 2017, 12:15 PM   #383
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Ok, well I started this thread off, without meaning anything special about Govberg, and only highlighting how high 5711 pricing had gotten. The thread is certainly way off topic now, and I, for one, would be more than happy to have it closed.
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Old 26 November 2017, 12:16 PM   #384
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Can I assume you are retracting the original post in it’s entirety?
This thread needs to be closed. Moderator?
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Old 26 November 2017, 12:17 PM   #385
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Ok, well I started this thread off, without meaning anything special about Govberg, and only highlighting how high 5711 pricing had gotten. The thread is certainly way off topic now, and I, for one, would be more than happy to have it closed.
Agree.
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Old 26 November 2017, 12:46 PM   #386
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In the words of the modern classic Frozen let it go?

RIP Karl
RIP So Cal

Let’s not have more casualties.
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Old 26 November 2017, 02:36 PM   #387
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In the words of the modern classic Frozen let it go?

RIP Karl
RIP So Cal

Let’s not have more casualties.
^^^This.



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Old 26 November 2017, 03:33 PM   #388
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In the words of the modern classic Frozen let it go?

RIP Karl
RIP So Cal

Let’s not have more casualties.
I’m not letting anything go. I forget nothing. Hopefully that’s a common trait here.

Much respect to the mods but as Ken said “mike got hosed” end of story. File that in your brains and move along
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Old 27 November 2017, 02:53 AM   #389
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Ok, well I started this thread off, without meaning anything special about Govberg, and only highlighting how high 5711 pricing had gotten. The thread is certainly way off topic now, and I, for one, would be more than happy to have it closed.
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In the words of the modern classic Frozen let it go?

RIP Karl
RIP So Cal

Let’s not have more casualties.
Lets get things perfectly straight here, a plain and simple fact, any member not heeding any mod or admins advice it's normally going to be a instant ban.Like you state let's have no more casualties, so its now time to move on, subject and Govberg matter is now closed.
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