Got a call for 5167R from AD but..

[DoraTheExplorerII]

The best outcome we could realistically expect at this point is for the Patek AD to draft up a contract that says a customer is guaranteed a Nautilus/Aquanaut by a certain date because of their bundle purchase made that day in the store. But this requires Patek HQ to actually coordinate production and reliable delivery to ADs that will need them on time.

[Nutkunkup]

FYI, in my country if you want to buy :

Aquanaut, you need to bundle with $50,000 watch
Nautilus, you need to bundle with $100,000 watches
Worldtime 5231J, you need to bundle with $170,000 watches

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by martinr

You guys are dreaming if you think Patek cares or would even respond to the question.

The voice of reality, and sanity.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

$50k of my choice but most of them are not popular model and it’s look not fit to me and some are ladies.

See what you can buy with ability to flip for the lowest possible loss. Selling right now is going to be brutal tbh, as some on other threads are attesting to.
Else get creative and see what other deals he’s open to.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Pass, unless your bundle is in your favor (which it likely is not otherwise it wouldn't be a "condition" to get your 5167R).

You can get a brand new 5167R for 10 to 15% above retail if you're patient and persistent.

+1. The 5167R is 37k, factor in sales tax and you are right around 40k. You can get them fairly easily for 48k and below. Unless you just have to have your name on the papers and are ok dropping another 50k on a piece you don't really want, it's an awful deal. Shame dealers get away with this.


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[Dr Process]

Frankly, the “bundle” at least seems to guarantee that the buyer receives the sports model. The “buy 1 or 2 and then we’ll see” approach, leaves the buyer hanging...

[toptier]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

FYI, in my country if you want to buy :

Aquanaut, you need to bundle with $50,000 watch
Nautilus, you need to bundle with $100,000 watches
Worldtime 5231J, you need to bundle with $170,000 watches

Care to share which country you're in?

[pdnb]

Originally Posted by Dr Process

Frankly, the “bundle” at least seems to guarantee that the buyer receives the sports model. The “buy 1 or 2 and then we’ll see” approach, leaves the buyer hanging...

This makes sense


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[pdnb]

Originally Posted by benlee

Please do. I am curious to know what is the outcome. I guess the best you get is some lip service that they don't encourage this but it's up to the AD etc.



This is probably the most likely outcome.

Controversially, I actually start to think bundling might be a more upfront way of doing business with the AD. Look, ADs knows popular and hard to get pieces fetch better value than MSRP on the grey market and they want a share of the cake. So either they sell to the customer by allocation after the customer established a sufficient purchase record or they sell if bundled with another watch. It's the same thing to me. In the former, it is far less transparent as a customer can buy many pieces but still end up not getting any allocation and only promise of being on some vague / fictitious wait list and then never gets the call. Bundling deals, if agreeable to both parties is a transparent way to ensure the customer gets the watch he wants. It's not ideal but it's what it is nowadays.

As long as both bundled pieces are in stock


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[Nutkunkup]

Originally Posted by toptier

Care to share which country you're in?

Hello neighbor, I'm from Thailand.

[gcsk76]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

FYI, in my country if you want to buy :

Aquanaut, you need to bundle with $50,000 watch
Nautilus, you need to bundle with $100,000 watches
Worldtime 5231J, you need to bundle with $170,000 watches

It is not a bad thing if the rules are clear, at least you are in control and making decision after you have seen the AD’s card.

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by qrc36

Right Murcielagoboy2 I see what you mean. Patek does it because it can.

Hermès does the same ..... buy lots of non-leather stuff and you can get a Kelly or Birkin.

Been the unsolicited beneficiary of this. My wife ends up buying me shirts and shoes to get her birkin or kelly. They even do this now for other lower tier bags. Forgot what theyre called.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I don't consider this bundling to be honest.

Demand for sports Patek **currently** exceeds supply by a long way. Each AD has over 50 people a day coming in asking for a Nautilus who have no relationship with the brand (of which 40 are speculators who think they'll make a quick buck). AD/Geneva now have a choice. Tell people:

"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. They go to loyal customers who are proven fans of the brand and not just interested in a speculative fad. So get out of my store and get lost"
OR
"I don't know you. I get very few Nautilus every year. Here are some other watches which you may want to consider, and in time with some purchase history and demonstrable enthusiasm for the brand, we may be able to allocate you a hard-to-get model."

Telling people the latter isn't bundling. What those guys in Geneva appeared to be saying wasn't bundling.


Bundling is when you walk into an AD, demand a 5711, he doesn't know you, doesn't care about your future business, or whether you're a speculator, and and he says, "you can take my 5711 in the back if you buy this 5327 and a 5270 right now".

That's bundling.
At least that's my view.

Pity. The whole brand is being soiled by the desperate need for two lines of Patek which aren't even their most beautiful offerings... :shakes head and sighs:

One of the best posts I’ve ever read on this forum. Especially the last sentence.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

FYI, in my country if you want to buy :

Aquanaut, you need to bundle with $50,000 watch
Nautilus, you need to bundle with $100,000 watches
Worldtime 5231J, you need to bundle with $170,000 watches

Excuse my lack of insight but why does one need to have such a high purchase history with the brand to receive a worldtime?

Originally Posted by V25V

+1. The 5167R is 37k, factor in sales tax and you are right around 40k. You can get them fairly easily for 48k and below. Unless you just have to have your name on the papers and are ok dropping another 50k on a piece you don't really want, it's an awful deal. Shame dealers get away with this.

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There is a mint condition one for 42.5 I offered 39 back in mid April but he wasn't willing to come down that far.He may have changed his mind by now...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=732077

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Nutkunkup

FYI, in my country if you want to buy :

Aquanaut, you need to bundle with $50,000 watch
Nautilus, you need to bundle with $100,000 watches
Worldtime 5231J, you need to bundle with $170,000 watches

Real quick, why is the 5231J so expensive compared to cheaper worldtimers? I thought they all had the same complication (which isn't likely).

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Real quick, why is the 5231J so expensive compared to cheaper worldtimers? I thought they all had the same complication (which isn't likely).

Rarity of enamel worldtimer has the AD ask for this bundling volume...

[enjoythemusic]

Called Patek in Switzerland, who forwarded me to their Geneva shop for some reason. According to her, the Geneva shop does not do bundling yet they are aware of the practice. You need to call Patek in Switzerland and report this dealer +41 (22) 8842020 who is forcing bundling deals. Thank you.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Excuse my lack of insight but why does one need to have such a high purchase history with the brand to receive a worldtime?



There is a mint condition one for 42.5 I offered 39 back in mid April but he wasn't willing to come down that far.He may have changed his mind by now...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=732077

Yup, seen it and it has tempted me.


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[sechsgang]

I was told by an AD, who has been fully on the up and up with me for everything that Patek does want people to have a track record and passionate enthusiasm with Patek first, and AD or Boutique Patek proper before being able to buy the models they know will sell in 2 seconds on an open market at a profit. TBH, I don't mind this...it does keep the allure up and guess what, it's their business to do so as they'd like! Is it annoying, oh yeah...is it what it is? Yep...so play the game, buy a few things that are still nice that you'd enjoy and then you get to order the ones you really really want...or just go grey.

[SudiYunus]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Realistically, what would somebody expect Patek to say about this if confronted?

We know the answer. "Patek Philippe does not condone this behavior and our Authorized Dealers are encouraged to make our timepieces available to all customers that state an interest in purchasing".

Or, throw those words into a blender along with some other niceties and you can come up with something similar.

If Patek came down on AD's for doing this, I assure you Patek suddenly would have nobody selling their (mostly overpriced) watches. I don't like it either, but I also didn't invest in a business to sell fine jewelry and watches. So, I can't pretend to understand what needs to be done to keep such a business operating and I try and not judge too much.

Exactly, nothing would happen to the AD, not even a verbal warning.

[jon_jon]

Only a few years ago, you could walk into an AD and buy a 5167R with a decent discount with no previous purchase history!

Most ADs had a difficult time selling PM Nautilus/Aquanaut back then.

How times have changed

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Only a few years ago, you could walk into an AD and buy a 5167R with a decent discount with no previous purchase history!

Most ADs had a difficult time selling PM Nautilus/Aquanaut back then.

How times have changed

Yup I remember those days!

[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Called Patek in Switzerland, who forwarded me to their Geneva shop for some reason. According to her, the Geneva shop does not do bundling yet they are aware of the practice. You need to call Patek in Switzerland and report this dealer +41 (22) 8842020 who is forcing bundling deals. Thank you.

We all know it is not going any where

[dauster]

I don't really know why but I absolutely love these threads. barely ever is there anything new to learn but I devour them nonetheless. Maybe it's because I feel the revolutionary spirit of members like @enjoythemusic who actually pick up the phone and want things to change - i applaud you but nothing will happen ...

[B01fan]

Lots of beautiful (dress) Pateks sitting in cases...if you just want the Aquanaut I’d go gray - and may be even cheaper if you can wait a few months...

[YYR]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Called Patek in Switzerland, who forwarded me to their Geneva shop for some reason. According to her, the Geneva shop does not do bundling yet they are aware of the practice. You need to call Patek in Switzerland and report this dealer +41 (22) 8842020 who is forcing bundling deals. Thank you.

I know some AD’s that are doing this, should I call patek? Or just refer them to their website? There’s are 387 AD’s that do this

[B01fan]

They all do this to varying degrees, some are just more subtle about it.

[Kittayos]

I visited Geneva salon last year. They pretty much said you really have to be a local to get hot pieces. After some conversation, they showed me a $50k baguette diamond money clip. if you buy this one, I will put your name on a wait list of 5980/1r but no guarantee. Just a wait list.

Bundling is an official practice now imo. Most ADs have a hard time selling non-sport models and the proportion of sport models vs non-sport models they receive per calendar year is not 1:1. To be fair, some grand complication pieces have to bundle with 2 sport models, or else they won't sell. To name a few, 5204, sky moon 6102, 6104. Not to mention 5159, 5496, 5327...etc. You will notice every AD has a considerable number of unsold pieces sitting in their windows and bundling pieces presumably are all gone. In order to do a clearance, all I can think of if a current situation persists, AD can only wait for the next round of sport model allocation and bundle with it.

Don't expect things to go easy. Maybe some ADs have a passion towards you personally, then you are lucky. In most cases, it's very unlikely this practice will change any time soon.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Kittayos

I visited Geneva salon last year. They pretty much said you really have to be a local to get hot pieces.

That is what they told me as well when I went there last year to try on 5740 and 5968. All smiles as I didn't expect a different answer and still a great experience all around. They took lots of time, showed me what I wanted to see and then some, and gave me a tour of the house.

[yoast]

Originally Posted by ts3

That is what they told me as well when I went there last year to try on 5740 and 5968. All smiles as I didn't expect a different answer and still a great experience all around. They took lots of time, showed me what I wanted to see and then some, and gave me a tour of the house.

Sort of similar for me. They actually added me to the list at the Geneva salon for the 5164a in spring 2018 and told me 22 months. i came by for a visit again June 2019 and was told that due to the overwhelming demand, the salon focus was now more of a viewing experience and hot pieces were for locals. So that meant no chance anymore for me. They also said that it was decided that the salons would receive less watches so more could be distributed to ad's.
It was very disappointing for me, especially since I came there on my birthday and left feeling very let down.
I then waited a bit as I had other priorities and finally decided to ask my ad for the 64 last January 2020 and he came though only a month after. Lesson learned for me to stick with my ad as this was the 3rd time he came through for me and I never should have "cheated" on him in the first place