Interesting experience regarding authentication at AD

[ByronB]

I just sold my trusty old 16622 to a local buyer after upgrading to the 116680 last month. I offered to meet at any Rolex AD or qualified jeweler to authenticate. The buyer called the local AD and they agreed to inspect it for $125, $200 with a quick polish. We were told it would take 20-25 minutes.

When they came out from the back with the watch, a nice lady in a green Rolex embroidered dress explained that the watch had passed all tests, was keeping time within specs, and it passed the pressure test so the gaskets are still good. I had told the buyer that I had it serviced at the Dallas RSC around 5 years ago or so, but I was not exactly sure when, so he should plan on having it serviced before long. The AD entered the serial number into Rolex's computer and confirmed that it was serviced at RSC Dallas in late 2014, which verified what I had told the buyer. He said that was all he needed to know, and handed me a roll of hundreds to count while the AD sized the watch for him. The AD offered to send it in for service for him, and the buyer said that he plans to do that almost immediately.

The AD did not make much money for the risk I would agree, but the fact that this watch showed up in the Rolex system had to help. Hopefully they can make a few bucks on the service, and maybe they have earned the business of this client for future jewelry and/or watch purchases.

[rodo]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

That's precisely what it is.

ADs and watchmakers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by 'authenticating' watches. That's why it's increasingly difficult to find people to do it at all, never mind for free.

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Secondly, if anything turns out to be wrong down the line there's a liability issue that can bite us in the ass. Everyone is friendly until someone loses money off the back of a 'favour', then things get legal.

The way that the second problem is mitigated is most authentications will be done with a caveat to the effect of stating that any advice given is just an opinion (albeit an informed opinion) and cannot be relied on as definitive proof of authenticity. This makes the whole thing a somewhat redundant.

This

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Have you contacted their corporate office and expressed your concerns?

I spoke with their store management about the sudden shock in their pricing and asked (quite courteously) why the sudden jump. They began by saying "No, the rates were $200, that must have been what you paid" despite, you know, the receipt lying down in front of me showing $100.

Have I reached out to their corporate office? No, not yet. I'm not quite sure what I'd say or how I'd say it, besides flat out asking them "What's wrong with a little honesty?" (which, hey, sounds fairly inflammatory). FWIW, since posting this topic, I've had a number of Chicago-based users on this forum reach out to me and express frustration with the AD in question- I question whether CD Peacock even would care, though it might not hurt to try anyway.

I'll probably contact them just to get a clear idea of what their policy is, but to be honest, it's just easier (and justified) to give a different AD the business.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by smym18

An AD gets nothing out of authenticating a watch so a stranger can get paid. It's a waste of their time and they owe you nothing, especially since the watch didn't come from them.

Very short sighted view. Every “stranger” who walks through the door of an AD is a potential future customer...

A savvy AD would be glad to have a Rolex owner come in and look at their available stock while the watchmaker takes a quick look at the watch. It could end up in a sale.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Very short sighted view. Every “stranger” who walks through the door of an AD is a potential future customer...

A savvy AD would be glad to have a Rolex owner come in and look at their available stock while the watchmaker takes a quick look at the watch. It could end up in a sale.

As much as I'd like to agree with you, in reality, this simply isn't the case. There are more people walking into ADs reading a list of allocation pieces they'd like (no, literally, they take a list out of their pocket and begin reading a list of hot stainless steel models) than actual customers who end up making purchases. Most of the customers are, by and large, there to waste an AD's time.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

As much as I'd like to agree with you, in reality, this simply isn't the case. There are more people walking into ADs reading a list of allocation pieces they'd like (no, literally, they take a list out of their pocket and begin reading a list of hot stainless steel models) than actual customers who end up making purchases. Most of the customers are, by and large, there to waste an AD's time.

LOL that’s the whole point of a storefront. So potential customers who are on the fence can walk in and be convinced by a good sales person and product to make a purchase. Yes some customers may walk in and not buy anything. But some do. And that’s how a business makes money.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

That's precisely what it is.

ADs and watchmakers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by 'authenticating' watches. That's why it's increasingly difficult to find people to do it at all, never mind for free.

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Secondly, if anything turns out to be wrong down the line there's a liability issue that can bite us in the ass. Everyone is friendly until someone loses money off the back of a 'favour', then things get legal.

The way that the second problem is mitigated is most authentications will be done with a caveat to the effect of stating that any advice given is just an opinion (albeit an informed opinion) and cannot be relied on as definitive proof of authenticity. This makes the whole thing a somewhat redundant.

Absolutely right. Agree with this 100%.

Many ADs don’t have anyone who could be considered (or would want to be for that matter) and expert. Too much liability.


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[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Absolutely right. Agree with this 100%.
Many ADs don’t have anyone who could be considered (or would want to be for that matter) and expert. Too much liability.
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APPRAISALS remember them ?
Are essential to the business of a jewelry store and cost between
$50 and $150 per hour.....if there are no experts.....How can you
trust them buying a $10,000 item ?

[TswaneNguni]

If a private seller sells to a private buyer it has nothing to do with an AD .Period .Its really not their business,so why do you want to involve them ?

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

If a private seller sells to a private buyer it has nothing to do with an AD .Period .Its really not their business,so why do you want to involve them ?

Oh man, good point!

When selling a particular watch, why on Earth would I want to consult the very people that Rolex tells me to consult for due diligence and information?

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by 214270Explorer

AD's have better things to do instead of authenticating watches all day. Plus it involves them in potential other issues they neither need nor want. Issues already mentioned, and others.

Would I authenticate watches were I an AD?

No frakkin way in H-E double hockeysticks.

[RolexNorth]

I went through this personally last month when I was buying my Hulk. I have a trusted watchmaker and Rolex Grey seller I trust with checking these things out. Bonus was he had a Hulk of his own in the showcase for sale as well as a bunch of Subs so he could make a solid comparison. FYI, he opened it up and inspected the movement also.

The thing is, the inspection and cert is only as good as the fact that both buyer and seller are present for the inspection. It's pointless otherwise as if the buyer isn't around and the cert is given, the seller could at anytime open the watch elsewhere and swap out the movement.

That's one of the reasons a watchmaker will NOT want to attach their name on a piece of paper to an inspection of a Rolex. For the simple fact that the certificate is totally useless as soon as you walk out of his store, or the watch exchanges hands. You may as well tear that piece of paper up. Useless.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

APPRAISALS remember them ?
Are essential to the business of a jewelry store and cost between
$50 and $150 per hour.....if there are no experts.....How can you
trust them buying a $10,000 item ?

I would submit there’s a difference here between an appraisal vs. an authentication request the OP is requesting here - and whether or not there’s a person qualified to do it.

I collect artwork - and I will tell you that there is a BIG and critical difference between an appraisal and an authentication - now there are some exceptions - but appraisers are NOT qualified to authenticate artwork. Again there are of course some exceptions. Appraisals follow the USPAP standards - authentication is a MUCH more detailed analytical process that could involve curation, records analysis etc.

I have appraisals for every watch in own and the majority of jewelry my wife owns. My AD provides upon purchase. That was purchased directly from them as an AD. And jewelry is all appraised by certified geologists. They KNOW every new watch came directly from Rolex. My AD might do, said authentication - I don’t know. But I do know they have a certified Rolex watchmaker in house.

My .02


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[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Very short sighted view. Every “stranger” who walks through the door of an AD is a potential future customer...

A savvy AD would be glad to have a Rolex owner come in and look at their available stock while the watchmaker takes a quick look at the watch. It could end up in a sale.

In this case the people who walked in were NOT customers of the AD, they already had a watch transaction that the AD would get no business from without charging for something.

I suppose it's an opportunity for an AD to undercut the seller with a pre-owned piece and take the sale for itself. Think about it, the buyer would rather buy from an AD, and the AD actually has already authenticated its own inventory.

Be careful what you wish for.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

In this case the people who walked in were NOT customers of the AD, they already had a watch transaction that the AD would get no business from without charging for something.

Not exactly accurate.

[77T]

I’m not surprised that some AD’s have raised the price to authenticate a watch for a transaction like pre-owned resales.

The lost opportunity cost of the watchmaker’s time on more profitable work like overhauls, plus the delay on pending bench work, plus the risk of lawsuits by either party means the new higher price probably reflects the ADs desire to avoid the whole issue.


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