Challenger documentary on Netflix

[JParm]

Anyone watching? We just finished the 4-part mini-series and it was a good history lesson for someone that was 3 at the time.

Might not be anything groundbreakingly new for those that followed along during the events of 1986, but for those that don't know the full story or the background of the astronauts, I think it's a worthy watch.

A good lesson on improper headwork and get-there-itis - not on the crew's part, but on NASA. Truly a sad story.

[Bluside]

It's on my list of shows to watch.

Space stuff has always been my thing. I remember where I was when the disaster happened. Like many here, I have been around to watch them all from the beginning with the Mercury program.

[SearChart]

I have it on my list, will watch it soon

[77T]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

A good lesson on improper headwork and get-there-itis - not on the crew's part, but on NASA. Truly a sad story.

I haven’t seen the latest documentary because no Netflix subscription. But for years the sequence of events and actions of NASA and its subcontractors still confound engineers and scientists.

A raging debate took place during the investigation and then afterward about the “accident waiting to happen”.

NASA did require the booster contractor (MTI) to certify that is was still safe to launch that day despite the freezing temps. A VP signed off despite MTI engineers earlier warnings about cold weather affecting the solid fuel boosters.

Many may not remember/know that prior compromises of the o-rings had occurred. In fact most of the launches in warm weather had O-ring erosion and blowby. There should have been action to do away with this problem long before the January launch. So it is possible cold weather didn’t cause it, but hubris did. We’ll never “know” but it’s reasonable to suspect low temperature played a role.

Think of the difference between TwinLock and TripLock crown/tube sealing. Not exactly the same, but more robust for those who critically rely upon o-ring performance.

The o-rings went between joints in the 3 sections of each booster that were built-up on site. The rings served 2 purposes - to seal any adverse blow-by and to keep the 3 sections from rotating while in flight.

The saddest thing for my brother (he worked at the firm that supplied the o-rings to MTI) was that an engineering team had told NASA and MTI that a third fail-safe binding technology should be employed. He said they were turned down in 1985 because “our change would increase the cost of the Shuttle program” and we couldn’t disprove a negative. Meaning that, despite serious erosion of the first o-ring on many launches, the secondary o-ring had expanded to contain the leak. So NASA & MTI said can you prove it’s needed?

But in hindsight - the whole thing was tragic - as well as the subsequent Columbia shuttle break-up upon re-entry almost 20 years later due to heat shielding tiles coming loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jackie Daytona]

Great documentary. It was a very sad and tragic story how it occurred thought. Really kind of senseless how it happened for them to take that risk.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by 77T

I haven’t seen the latest documentary because no Netflix subscription. But for years the sequence of events and actions of NASA and its subcontractors still confound engineers and scientists.

A raging debate took place during the investigation and then afterward about the “accident waiting to happen”.

NASA did require the booster contractor (MTI) to certify that is was still safe to launch that day despite the freezing temps. A VP signed off despite MTI engineers earlier warnings about cold weather affecting the solid fuel boosters.

Many may not remember/know that prior compromises of the o-rings had occurred. In fact most of the launches in warm weather had O-ring erosion and blowby. There should have been action to do away with this problem long before the January launch. So it is possible cold weather didn’t cause it, but hubris did. We’ll never “know” but it’s reasonable to suspect low temperature played a role.

Think of the difference between TwinLock and TripLock crown/tube sealing. Not exactly the same, but more robust for those who critically rely upon o-ring performance.

The o-rings went between joints in the 3 sections of each booster that were built-up on site. The rings served 2 purposes - to seal any adverse blow-by and to keep the 3 sections from rotating while in flight.

The saddest thing for my brother (he worked at the firm that supplied the o-rings to MTI) was that an engineering team had told NASA and MTI that a third fail-safe binding technology should be employed. He said they were turned down in 1985 because “our change would increase the cost of the Shuttle program” and we couldn’t disprove a negative. Meaning that, despite serious erosion of the first o-ring on many launches, the secondary o-ring had expanded to contain the leak. So NASA & MTI said can you prove it’s needed?

But in hindsight - the whole thing was tragic - as well as the subsequent Columbia shuttle break-up upon re-entry almost 20 years later due to heat shielding tiles coming loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm guessing much like the current Boeing debacle, egos, dollars and corruption are in there somewhere.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I'm guessing much like the current Boeing debacle, egos, dollars and corruption are in there somewhere.

I don’t know as much about Boeing’s MCAS debacle.

But when I say hubris, I meant overconfidence as in “I know best” rather than corruption.

When the o-ring engineers noted that a 3rd clamping technology would avert a disaster IF both extant rings failed, they were challenged to prove both rings would fail. It had never happened before.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JParm]

Originally Posted by 77T

I don’t know as much about Boeing’s MCAS debacle.

But when I say hubris, I meant overconfidence as in “I know best” rather than corruption.

When the o-ring engineers noted that a 3rd clamping technology would avert a disaster IF both extant rings failed, they were challenged to prove both rings would fail. It had never happened before.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes, this was much talked about in the doc.

Generally, safety of flight is - if there's anything that's a cause for concern, you don't go. In this case (due to timeline / budget constraints), it was the opposite - prove that it will fail and THEN we won't fly. WHAT??

[erhein]

I watched this and, yes, it is well worth watching. At some point between the Mercury and Apollo programs and the loss of Challenger, bureaucrats took control of the space program away from engineers and scientists. Bureaucrats don't know how to do anything but be bureaucrats and make bureaucratic decisions. I think they were lucky for a long time but the luck always runs out. Such a shame.

[77T]

Originally Posted by erhein

At some point between the Mercury and Apollo programs and the loss of Challenger, bureaucrats took control of the space program away from engineers and scientists.

I would say bean-counters took over. Once the moonshots were done, the space program was a very expensive bauble without a “big idea” to drive it.

Budgets had to be shifted and bean-counters took over.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RBradleigh]

I’m watching, finished parts 1 & 2 tonight. Challenger catastrophe happened a day before my 5th BDay. I’m from SoFl and went to school at UCF for Engineering and to be near KSC

[Maxy]

One thing I liked about Ronald Reagan's word to the committee - whatever it is don't blame NASA completely as people need heroes and they'll deliver in future.


I agree with this. Yes, NASA messed up but doesn't mean we start blaming everything about NASA and just about close its shop. That's how a country is not run. So, I'm not surprised that the mistakes were hidden during that time. You can't penalize the organization for few officers decision during Challenger launch even though it was unpardonable mistake!

[Andy0331]

I was just a young boy when it happened, but like most of us "old enough" certainly remember that day. It had a different impact on me as an 11 year old, in that I felt connected to it & in some tiny way, I was.

Several years prior, my grandparents bought a summer camp in upstate NY from Gregory Jarvis's parents. I remember visiting there at the age of 9 or 10 & my grandparents telling me about the Jarvis family & that their son was going to be an astronaut on the Space Shuttle.

Of course, at the time, I found that really exciting & was even more excited when I found some old cowboy & horse toys buried by time in the yard. I now had "astronaut toys", which made us friends in my young mind...

Fast forward a year or two to 6th grade in Central Florida, where classes would always go outside to watch the shuttle launches; I actually "knew" one of the astronauts on this flight! Of course the disaster was (and still is) tragic for everyone, but it definitely stuck with my young impressionable mind and I remember it very vividly.

We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and 'slipped the surly bonds of Earth' to 'touch the face of God

[Speedbird-1]

Just tried to read this very moving poem, out loud to my wife.....
I failed...


High Flight

"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of – wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air....

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
– Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."

Written by John Gillespie Magee Jr. Canadian. Spitfire Pilot.
Died 1941. He was 19 years old.

[function12]

I went to high school with Onizuka and Smith's kids. It was a very sad day. I remember being in the hall right by the principal office right as the explosion happened. I knew something was wrong. Then they started calling all the other astronaut's kids down to the office before they made the announcement that the Challenger had exploded. The school has a soccer ball that was recovered from the flight. Onizuka was taking it up for his daughter's soccer team.
Lots on engineers (NASA, TRW, Lockheed, and IBM) in the area always said they would never go up in something built by the cheapest bidder.

[erhein]

Originally Posted by 77T

I would say bean-counters took over. Once the moonshots were done, the space program was a very expensive bauble without a “big idea” to drive it.

Budgets had to be shifted and bean-counters took over.

Yes, they aren't always the same thing, but I equate the two in this case.

[RBradleigh]

Wish me luck fellas, have an on-site interview with SpaceX @ KSC on Monday.

Hopefully it all comes full-circle with me.

“Launch Engineer” position

[bremersm]

My parents had their JFK moment as children and my moment was the Challenger explosion. I can tell you with great detail where I was and my feelings in the aftermath of viewing the tragedy.

I have lived through this as child and read many other accounts. I will not be watching the series on Netflix. To be honest mistakes were made. These are amplified when something as dangerous as flight is involved. We should be better as a race than to blindly point the finger of blame. Instead of pointing fingers we should work together to find a way to make this dangerous experience a bit safer.

The above is not a statement directed as those in this forum but my own thoughts for the larger population that may look to place blame.

[Toony]

I certainly remember where I was when it happened. The documentary was good. Worth watching.

[Boothroyd]

I know a guy who was in the Houston control room that day and was later a full flight director for later shuttle missions. "Launch fever" was the primary culprit. He was one of those who pointed out that the temperature represented an anomaly to overall flight parameters. Haunts him still.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Just tried to read this very moving poem, out loud to my wife.....
I failed...


High Flight

"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of – wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air....

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
– Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."

Written by John Gillespie Magee Jr. Canadian. Spitfire Pilot.
Died 1941. He was 19 years old.

I’ve heard a couple of lines of that over the years but this is the first time in it entirety, thanks for posting.

[wrx04]

Originally Posted by RBradleigh

Wish me luck fellas, have an on-site interview with SpaceX @ KSC on Monday.

Hopefully it all comes full-circle with me.

“Launch Engineer” position

Good luck!

That would be an awesome position. Front row seat to cutting edge space travel

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by RBradleigh

Wish me luck fellas, have an on-site interview with SpaceX @ KSC on Monday.

Hopefully it all comes full-circle with me.

“Launch Engineer” position

Good Luck! On Monday, Russell.

Early to bed, clean white shirt, shiny shoes and a big smile as you enter the room.
It's as good as 'in the bag'.

[joerivers1961]

I saw it and definitely a sad story.

[RBradleigh]

Originally Posted by wrx04

Good luck!

That would be an awesome position. Front row seat to cutting edge space travel

Thank you. Subie fan? I had a 07 Legacy GT, that was a fun sleeper car

[RBradleigh]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Good Luck! On Monday, Russell.

Early to bed, clean white shirt, shiny shoes and a big smile as you enter the room.
It's as good as 'in the bag'.

Thanks Speedie. Don’t forget a plain black tie and at least 2 pencils and pens :)

I will definitely have the smile going for me

[swils8610]

I’d like to watch it. What’s it called?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JParm]

Originally Posted by swils8610

I’d like to watch it. What’s it called?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Challenger: The Final Flight

[KatGirl]

I saw the first 2 episodes. I vividly remember that day in 1986. My youngest child was 2 weeks old, and, being stuck at home with him, I was watching the launch in real time. From what I have seen so far, it appears NASA was well aware that the o rings could fail, and cause a catastrophic explosion. Very sad time for our nation, and such a setback for space exploration.

[wrx04]

Originally Posted by RBradleigh

Thank you. Subie fan? I had a 07 Legacy GT, that was a fun sleeper car

Had a WRX in college...it was a fun car. Moved on from Subaru since then, but the ownership of that car was a good experience.