AD truth or madness?

[Sam2710]

Hello all,

My story is far from unique, but I'd appreciate any advice. I'm UK based.

I've been dreaming about my first Rolex for many years, however I've only recently been fortunate enough to have the funds available to begin my collection. Similar to so many others, I have desired a Submariner for so long and I would really like this to be my first Rolex. I am under no illusion that I can walk into an AD and walk out with a Submariner, however I didn't expect it to be this bad.

My nearest AD has a reputation for being rude and very unwelcoming to new customers. I went in to enquire but was told in no uncertain terms that I couldn't even enter the store without an appointment, and that it was unlikely I would be able to get any model other than what was in the window (the usual selection of two tone DJs). They also informed me that, in the almost zero chance I managed to get a Sub, they would keep the warranty card for one year (not a problem) and I would have to sign a contract prohibiting me from selling the watch for at least three years. It really wasn't a comfortable experience and I decided to travel a bit further to visit another AD.

The next AD couldn't have been more helpful at first. They welcomed me into the showroom and engaged in a friendly conversation about the models I was interested in etc. We had the initial conversation about how the professional models are very in demand / hard to get etc. With that in mind they started showing me some DJ36 models, which they said can still be ordered on demand. The DJ36 is a lovely, lovely watch (especially with the fluted bezel / silver dial) and I'll admit that I did fall for it even though I had my heart set on the Sub.

I took some time to think it over, and just when I thought I was ready to order a DJ36 I realised that I still really want the Sub to be my first Rolex. By this point I had been to the AD numerous times and had some very long conversations about non-watch related topics, so I like to think that we had a good relationship (well, as good as a relationship can be without any financial reward).

I sent a very long, heartfelt email outlining my feeling for the DJ36, explaining that as much as I loved it I would like to be added to the Submariner waiting list. I made it clear that I was willing to wait and that I would like them to have my business. I said that I would like to add the DJ36 to my collection at some point in the future but that I always wanted my first Rolex to be a Sub. I was feeling pretty good about my chances of at least being granted admission to the waiting list.

The reply was a swift, harsh blow to that optimism.

'The wait for a submariner is so long that it has been closed for a long time. It is currently over 6-7 years. We will not be able to start taking expression of interest for another 2 years. You can get added to the expression of interest for the green dial LV only but it will be about 4 years as we only receive 4 pieces per year. I would advise that you invest in a more gettable model for now.'

I have taken the reply to mean that I am simply not important enough to be considered for a Submariner. I was also very surprised that they aren't taking expression of interest in any LN subs, only the LV? Surely the LV demand is higher than LN?

I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on whether the above is true? Or are they just politely telling me to move on?

Thank you.

[Nairn1980]

This is harsh, but definitely a reality check.

First of all, the AD that said they still retain warranty cards really shouldn’t be doing that. WOS group used to do it and it was stopped by Rolex I believe.

ADs really have their pick of clients just now. It’s like having 20 sweeties and 1000 children...how do you choose who gets the sweeties? ADs now (in general) allocate these pieces to “preferred clients”. Chronological “lists” really don’t exist and often “waiting” will be fruitless unless you’re spending as you wait.

Whilst your ideal starting point is a submariner, maybe a datejust is a better place to begin. You can then work towards a sub further into ownership. Relationships don’t happen overnight, any you don’t become a preferred client overnight.

Of course you can ignore all this and go straight to the grey market, which is where many without relationships head to buy a steel sports model without the “games”

Some people do strike it lucky, and you may too, but that’s the exception rather than the rule.

[joli160]

I don’t think AD’s are interested in a long e-mail. They have judged you as a tyre kicker and time waster.
Just pay a small premium and go somewhere else

[Sam2710]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

This is harsh, but definitely a reality check.

First of all, the AD that said they still retain warranty cards really shouldn’t be doing that. WOS group used to do it and it was stopped by Rolex I believe.

ADs really have their pick of clients just now. It’s like having 20 sweeties and 1000 children...how do you choose who gets the sweeties? ADs now (in general) allocate these pieces to “preferred clients”. Chronological “lists” really don’t exist and often “waiting” will be fruitless unless you’re spending as you wait.

Whilst your ideal starting point is a submariner, maybe a datejust is a better place to begin. You can then work towards a sub further into ownership. Relationships don’t happen overnight, any you don’t become a preferred client overnight.

Of course you can ignore all this and go straight to the grey market, which is where many without relationships head to buy a steel sports model without the “games”

Some people do strike it lucky, and you may too, but that’s the exception rather than the rule.

Appreciate the reply - thank you! It is indeed hard to hear, but no doubt a sign of the times!

Originally Posted by joli160

I don’t think AD’s are interested in a long e-mail. They have judged you as a tyre kicker and time waster.
Just pay a small premium and go somewhere else

Ouch. Yeah that's the impression I'm getting. I thought that the fact I travelled there numerous times would have shown that this was not the case.

Sigh. I am probably just being naive!

[Harry-57]

If someone can't give you what you want it's not harsh, just realistic. The thing to do is keep looking. And start buying things. Spending £50 on something else that takes your fancy is a bigger step than asking someone to sit down and read a long, pleading email, which they already know the response to.

Whatever you do, don't give up. Keep looking, keep asking. You'll get there.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

If someone can't give you what you want it's not harsh, just realistic. The thing to do is keep looking. And start buying things. Spending £50 on an accessory is a bigger step than asking someone to sit down and read a long, pleading email, which they already know the response to.

Whatever you do, don't give up. Keep looking, keep asking. You'll get there.

Exactly. Everyone has a story, a reason, a special occasion that they want a steel sports model for.
ADs hear every type of pleading under the sun.

They care about money

[Sam2710]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

If someone can't give you what you want it's not harsh, just realistic. The thing to do is keep looking. And start buying things. Spending £50 on an accessory is a bigger step than asking someone to sit down and read a long, pleading email, which they already know the response to.

Whatever you do, don't give up. Keep looking, keep asking. You'll get there.

Thank you. Probably just me being a bit too optimistic. One day!

Somewhat serious question here: my business partner has a YG day date - is it possible that it would help my case if I wore that into the next AD?

[Ranger67]

The issue is they pulled you in to sell you the DJ36 and got grumpy when you didn't buy, try other AD's sometimes its just catching them at the right time, they're not all bad although i did think that at one time, good luck.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

Exactly. Everyone has a story, a reason, a special occasion that they want a steel sports model for.
ADs hear every type of pleading under the sun.

They care about money

How to make things happen at a U.K. Rolex AD:

‘I’m not going to give you some drawn out story, only occasion I’m marking is big things happening. I’ll take a TT DJ for my wife, those gold earrings and that diamond DD40 if you can pull a green sub out of the safe right in the next 5 minutes.’

‘Right this way sir’

[VogelPhoenix]

I think there's little doubt regarding the "truth" of the AD's claim that they can sell any SS sports model they get many times over, regardless of the actual length of the waiting list in years (or whether such a list indeed exists).

Heartfelt stories about wanting the Sub to be the "first rolex" aside, nothing in your actions indicates that you'll be a repeat buyer of non-flippable models like the DJ. What the AD says seems perfectly rational in current environment.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Sam2710

Thank you. Probably just me being a bit too optimistic. One day!

Somewhat serious question here: my business partner has a YG day date - is it possible that it would help my case if I wore that into the next AD?

I don’t understand why people think this helps anything. People used to say they would wear nice watches into ADs to get better service and be taken seriously....but nowadays they pretty much scoff at anyone, expecting them to ask about SS pieces. If anything wearing a PM DD might make them think they can pitch you on another PM piece instead of a SS Sub

[joli160]

Originally Posted by dmash

How to make things happen at a U.K. Rolex AD:

‘I’m not going to give you some drawn out story, only occasion I’m marking is big things happening. I’ll take a TT DJ for my wife, those gold earrings and that diamond DD40 if you can pull a green sub out of the safe right in the next 5 minutes.’

‘Right this way sir’

[Podmornica]

The AD is not in business to make friendships with new customers and have long talks. They are not interested in that. All they want is your money for slow moving pieces.

In this climate, especially in the UK, which is notoriously difficult for SS professional models it is a best option to just pay a premium. The premium on a Submariner wasn't that big considering the 114060 just a few months ago.

Trouble is, you have entered the market in tje most difficult time considering the Sub. The old model 114060 is no longer made and prices went up now and the new model has crazy premium since it's on the market for less than a month and greys want to get much as they can - hence premiums of 100% for a 124060.

[Sam2710]

Thank you all. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as too optimistic or entitled. I guess things are just the way they are.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Sam2710

Thank you. Probably just me being a bit too optimistic. One day!

Somewhat serious question here: my business partner has a YG day date - is it possible that it would help my case if I wore that into the next AD?

Too many games......

If I was in your situation now, I’d either play the long game and buy the DJ36 (which is where I started 16 years ago).... or I’d pay the premium, bite the bullet and buy your sub....job done!

Either way you’ll pay more than you intended.

[wytrader]

I was lucky enough to start being able to buy Rolex's in 2008 before all of this started but have a couple of comments.

1) Sub's are not Daytona's aiming for this to be your first is realistic unless you really want it now. Do your research talk to as many people as possible and maybe your timing is unlucky now the new one is out but eventually these will not be going for a 2x retail and AD's will recognise the value in selling you your first Sub.

2) Calling, mailing etc really doesn't get many very far and as has been mentioned above is work for the AD. Walk in as often as you can, show passion, show and interest, know your stuff and say some of the right things and you might be top of mind the next time a sales person has a Sub to allocate. Be realistic and don't BS them and just tell them you would rather wait than enter in with an OP36, however beautiful that watch may be.

3) If you travel check everywhere, its a lot of 'work' but its also half the fun. The hunt really is part of it (I admit I have stopped as the rejection is almost certain) and when you do get your first Rolex and it ends up being the most iconic Rolex ever you will remember that AD and the hunt.

If you came here saying your dream watch was a steel Daytona the answer would be different but I truely believe for those that really want it and are willing to put in the right effort and wait it out a bit a Sub is definitely attainable.

[Sam2710]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

Too many games......

If I was in your situation now, I’d either play the long game and buy the DJ36 (which is where I started 16 years ago).... or I’d pay the premium, bite the bullet and buy your sub....job done!

Either way you’ll pay more than you intended.

Don't get me wrong - the DJ36 (126234) with the silver dial is stunning and I'd be honoured and proud to wear it. I guess these are just the games we have to play to get watches for MSRP!

[Oxfordian]

My experience of Rolex is vastly different, I went looking for an Oyster Perpetual but ended up buying a DateJust, I then bought another DateJust for my wife who also bought some jewellery so we had buying history with the store.

When the Submariner was launched in September I went into my AD (with an appointment), signed up to 'express my interest', expected at least an 18 month wait, because in my opinion I haven't spent a huge amount at the store compared to many others, my SA suggested it may be less than that and very surprisingly it was less as I picked the watch up yesterday.

AD's are under a huge amount of pressure with Rolex's Professional watches, if they sell to everyone who walked in off the street a good proportion of those watches would be sold on immediately for a profit, the AD would also upset regular customers if they didn't give them a chance to get the watches. So what to do?

In many respects an AD cannot do right for doing wrong, they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I cannot suggest a way round your dilemma other than being polite and persistent, there are stories on this forum about people walking into an AD and walking out with the watch of their dreams so it can happen.

Keep smiling and be positive.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

Too many games......

If I was in your situation now, I’d either play the long game and buy the DJ36 (which is where I started 16 years ago).... or I’d pay the premium, bite the bullet and buy your sub....job done!

Either way you’ll pay more than you intended.

But you can sell the DJ if you wanted to and recoup some (if not most) of your initial outlay.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by Sam2710

Thank you all. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as too optimistic or entitled. I guess things are just the way they are.

Nah, entitled are the people blaming everything and everyone else for the fact they can’t pick up a sub at MSRP.

But your reality is what you have experienced. Think how much you really want a sub, and just buy grey if you must have it.

Or try something more accessible if you wish. I’m in this camp myself.

Focusing on outcomes is really the only and best thing to do, lamenting how unfair it is, is not.

Btw, I would recommend something from the Tudor range because I’m a fan!


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[Yess]

Pay or play..... That's the options.
I prefer to play, I think Rolex is already pricey - paying overs from grey or second hand doesn't fly for me. Plenty of "as good" watches with different names on the dial. I prefer the Rolex name... And RRP they are equivalent priced that it makes it worth while.
Your money, your choice. I've made mine.

[Sam2710]

Originally Posted by teck21

Nah, entitled are the people blaming everything and everyone else for the fact they can’t pick up a sub at MSRP.

But your reality is what you have experienced. Think how much you really want a sub, and just buy grey if you must have it.

Or try something more accessible if you wish. I’m in this camp myself.

Focusing on outcomes is really the only and best thing to do, lamenting how unfair it is, is not.

Btw, I would recommend something from the Tudor range because I’m a fan!


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Before this latest Rolex pursuit I was about to pull the trigger on a Pelagos (blue) from an AD. Lovely, lovely watch!

[lolhol]

Originally Posted by Sam2710

Thank you all. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as too optimistic or entitled. I guess things are just the way they are.

Definitely don't give up, I was in the exact same position as you, wanting a Sub as my first purchase and only recently having the funds to buy one etc.... Was in a AD in London recently 'enquiring' about the new models but knowing the chances were slim to none as I have no purchase history..... Had a good chat with the Manager and was offered the discontinued sub date there and then (116610LN), an hour later, I walked out with it..... I know it's rare for that to happen but it does so keep asking, not sure that will happen if you specifically want the new model though.

[Sandpit]

Welcome to the Layer Cake.

I’ve been where you are and ended up going 5 digit. If I insisted on new from AD I would go for the DJ36 first and then wait for the Sub. Having only just been released you have no fears over a potential replacement.

[David001]

Honestly, Rolex don't want you as a customer and they have successfully put their products out of your reach.
For you its's personal, for them it's just pure business.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by teck21

Nah, entitled are the people blaming everything and everyone else for the fact they can’t pick up a sub at MSRP.

But your reality is what you have experienced. Think how much you really want a sub, and just buy grey if you must have it.

Or try something more accessible if you wish. I’m in this camp myself.

Focusing on outcomes is really the only and best thing to do, lamenting how unfair it is, is not.

Btw, I would recommend something from the Tudor range because I’m a fan!


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[Mr DateJust]

The DJ36 is every bit the watch the sub is and in some ways better but if it’s not what you want don’t get it as you will end up regretting it and selling it to fund the sub. Just be 100% sure what you want.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by dmash

What can I say, I have the conviction that most are doing the right thing/s by most stakeholders in a time of insane demand and very constrained supply!


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[dmash]

Originally Posted by Mr DateJust

The DJ36 is every bit the watch the sub is and in some ways better but if it’s not what you want don’t get it as you will end up regretting it and selling it to fund the sub. Just be 100% sure what you want.

I 100% agree.

While I do like some sport watch designs, this ridiculous market value stating that some of these SS modes are 4x that of a Datejust is absolutely absurd.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Sam2710

Somewhat serious question here: my business partner has a YG day date - is it possible that it would help my case if I wore that into the next AD?

Unknown. I would think it unlikely but I have no idea really. I suppose there is a risk of "you didn't buy it from us" syndrome.

Relationships of this nature usually start with a sale. It doesn't have to be something you don't want. The first thing we ever paid our AD for was a pen nib replacement. Next up was a silver ring for my wife, not expensive and reduced further still in a sale. It rolled on from there.

Every time I visit my AD and spend any time in their watch department, the phones never stop ringing. A majority of the calls are about hot Rolex models. There is no excuse for rudeness (my AD is never rude) but it takes some patience, skill and creativity to keep coming up with ways of deflecting the demands, rants, sob stories, life stories, offers of trade ins, offers of creative ways of paying, etc. They've heard it all. Repeatedly.