Forked over 19% tax at Frankfurt Airport upon entry: A Cautionary Tale

[dmash]

Originally Posted by guffyboy92

To add some facts to the situation. No, unfortunately I did not correct myself and change my story, saying that it was in fact my watch then and there. The reason why I didn't was because to me, it would have seemed extremely suspicious to change my story mid-situation, after being told that I was going to be taxed. Likely, the officer would have thought I was just lying flat out about the whole scenario and I didn't want any trouble. At least that is what I was thinking in my mind. I am not a tax lawyer, nor am I familiar with import taxes in the EU having never lived there for longer than a few months.

To clarify, this is how the conversation went along the lines of:

Zoll: "Where did she get this watch?"
Me: "It's my watch, I bought it in the US in 2016, but she's using it now".
Zoll: "So it was a gift
Me: "Yes you could say that."
Zoll: "Come with us please"


Oh well, I never expected that that answer would have led to what happened. Lesson learned.

Did you keep the paperwork? Please see my post above, that could be a advantageous to you if you have intentions to sell in the future. An EU buyer puts a slight premium on yours as opposed to one from say China as youve already paid to have to exist in the EU

[330ci]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah this is the big thing here. I’m not sure why multiple people are giving Germany such a bad wrap. I’m 99.9% sure this exact same thing would happen in the US if the same info were presented and I was a German citizen and my wife was a US citizen. It’s entirely reasonable

the only thing the US customs will stop you for is if you try bringing in a piece of fruit. it's not reasonable. Especially since Rolexes are traded more like commodities than jewelry at this point.

and even if you were charged the import duty here, a whopping 3% in comparison

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by guffyboy92

To add some facts to the situation. No, unfortunately I did not correct myself and change my story, saying that it was in fact my watch then and there. The reason why I didn't was because to me, it would have seemed extremely suspicious to change my story mid-situation, after being told that I was going to be taxed. Likely, the officer would have thought I was just lying flat out about the whole scenario and I didn't want any trouble. At least that is what I was thinking in my mind. I am not a tax lawyer, nor am I familiar with import taxes in the EU having never lived there for longer than a few months.

To clarify, this is how the conversation went along the lines of:

Zoll: "Where did she get this watch?"
Me: "It's my watch, I bought it in the US in 2016, but she's using it now".
Zoll: "So it was a gift
Me: "Yes you could say that."
Zoll: "Come with us please"


Oh well, I never expected that that answer would have led to what happened. Lesson learned.

I’m really sorry man. A terrible lesson learned. I’m very much on your side on this as I’m sure you can tell. Maybe somebody else will chime in and they can give you some advice to reverse this but most seem to think not. It was an excellent discussion either way. Very important information.

[SearChart]

Americans are mad because a German citizen has to pay German tax

[Blansky]

We sometimes call watches that we give to our significant other as "boyfriend watches" which are often men's sized watches (not sexist, just the fact that mens watches are traditionally larger than the ladies versions) that we let our sig other wear.

When we say we "gave" it to her to wear that could be construed as "gifted" her, meaning that she owns it now. When in fact we let her wear it until ......no specific date. But the bottom line is we still own it, she's just wearing it.

I have given my wife my Rolex to wear for a trip to Hawaii since her Suunto tanked a few days before. If confronted by customs officials in a different country/scenario it could be construed in casual conversation that I "gifted" her the watch.

Language and nuance can cost money when talking to customs people.

If you were confronted by customs people and your wife said please could you hurry I have a bad headache. And the customs guys said, where did you get it and your wife said, my husband gave it to me because he would stop complaining on the plane. Then you are indeed responsible to pay duty on that particular headache.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by 330ci

the only thing the US customs will stop you for is if you try bringing in a piece of fruit. it's not reasonable. Especially since Rolexes are traded more like commodities than jewelry at this point.

and even if you were charged the import duty here, a whopping 3% in comparison

I fly into JFK frequently and am always checking bags from Asia. I sit there and watch customs and who they pull aside. While yes, there will be families with tons of suitcases and boxes pulled for checking.....it’s also people with obvious money from their bags/attire and people who I can only assume they deem to look ‘seedy’ and search for illegal contraband. I’ve even been searched/scanned before on arrival from Germany one time. I blatantly asked the officer what they’re looking for as I was in gym pants and this was years back when I was on more of a shoestring budget, and he told me ‘people bringing back expensive items, electronics, etc’. I thought it was funny as the most expensive thing in my bag was my used Nike sneakers

[dmash]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Americans are mad because a German citizen has to pay German tax

They’d probably flip if they knew how many insurances Germans take out. lol I swear at one point I was going to get offered an insurance for another insurance. It was strangely relaxing though, I never had to worry about anything like I do in America.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Leading the witness

That is funny.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Americans are mad because a German citizen has to pay German tax

- Sorry for the unfortunate communication with that officer OP. Thanks for the information.

I've wondered about this when traveling internationally and returning to the US, then realizing I have 100's of photos of watches from the day I purchased them on my phone.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Ooh, and don’t get me started on civil forfeiture! “We can’t prove that you didn’t steal it, so we’re going to steal it from you.” WTF is that about?

I am not a fan of that at all. And they don't always give back all the money. I would guess saying the money isn't allowed to be used by the seizing agency would end it.

[donas]

Originally Posted by Patton250

How does this make any sense at all? So if I wear a Rolex and fly to Germany (or any country) and then fly home my custom peoples can stop me and try to make me prove I bought it in the United States and if I can’t I am supposed to pay some sort of tax on it? What’s to stop them from doing it with your entire wardrobe and everything else you have in your luggage? Sounds like something a banana republic would do. I’d rather go to jail.

Agreed, but the last sentence is tough talk until you've been pulled into the customs interrogation room. I've been there and its scary having no control over what happens and I was police officer at the time! If I make a list of things I trust, a wild Tiger rates higher than the government and its entities.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by donas

Agreed, but the last sentence is tough talk until you've been pulled into the customs interrogation room. I've been there and its scary having no control over what happens and I was police officer at the time! If I make a list of things I trust, a wild Tiger rates higher than the government and its entities.

I hear you my friend. I completely agree with you. I don’t want to get hauled into any government office for anything. I would simply explain to them what the truth was and if they wouldn’t have any of it that’s when it’s time to get a lawyer. As a police officer you know the time to argue with the cops is not in the field but in court. It never goes well in the field. You can make a cordial first and perhaps second attempt at reason but if they won’t have anything of it then you keep your mouth shut and bring it to court. That’s what court is for.

Awesome points.

[Vishy26]

Originally Posted by 330ci

No taxation without representation. We started a revolution over this stuff so I think unfair taxes generally strike a chord with most Americans. This seems like a ridiculous overreach to me, but European countries tend to have far more taxes on luxury goods so I can see why they would try to level the playing field as much as they can for vendors in their country.

I would've left the watch though personally if that were an option. Can't imagine there'd be much risk leaving a fully documented watch at one of the most heavily monitored places on earth. No way someone could steal it without getting caught. and it'd be a nightmare for tourism if someones watch got stolen while being held because they refused to pay 6k euro in taxes to wear their watch on vacation lol

[donas]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I hear you my friend. I completely agree with you. I don’t want to get hauled into any government office for anything. I would simply explain to them what the truth was and if they wouldn’t have any of it that’s when it’s time to get a lawyer. As a police officer you know the time to argue with the cops is not in the field but in court. It never goes well in the field. You can make a cordial first and perhaps second attempt at reason but if they won’t have anything of it then you keep your mouth shut and bring it to court. That’s what court is for.

Awesome points.

Very true! If I had a dollar for every person I put on the shoulder of the road I told that to, LOL

[kearez]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I bet there are some trusted sellers here that could explain the process in detail for us. I wouldn’t even know how the process worked. Let’s say you packed up one of your nice Rolex watches and shipped it to a friend as a gift. Who would stop it? Would it get held up at the boarder? how would they even know what’s in the box? Interesting topic. This is all very good information to know.

Work in logistics can give you a run down.

When you ship anything via air freight you, always end up telling DHL/Fedex/UPS your shipper and consignee. Next they ask you what is in your box or “shipment description” If you lie and say its “pens” when the carrier screens your shipment and noticed an inconsistency on your item, they can reject it, or ask you update the description.

Your item has now an updated description as “watch”. All this information is processed and sent to customs. When you watch arrives in UK,Germany, USA. An eagle eyed customs agent will look through the import manifest. Might see the watch on there and go hey i want to inspect shipment further. Which they can and will open the shipment.

Ive skipped some steps here such as the consol manifest etc but you get the general idea.

I had a customs agent seize a car as they didnt like the weight.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by 330ci

the only thing the US customs will stop you for is if you try bringing in a piece of fruit. it's not reasonable.

Completely wrong. "Reasonable" is irrelevant. What does the appropriate law say? If you do not like the law as written then contact those who have the power to change the law.

[realtimes]

We may call it governmental theft or extortion but the government has called it tax and we must pay.

[Burlington]

Lesson learnt I’m sure by the OP.

Zoll are strict, and not for arguing with.

I’m not sure why there is so much anti tax sentiment on the thread either.

If you don’t like the rules of a country, be grateful if you have the means to relocate somewhere else, not everyone is so lucky.

We do however now see the difference in covid times in the approaches between hands on governments and those that leave the population to do as they please.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Burlington

Lesson learnt I’m sure by the OP.

Zoll are strict, and not for arguing with.

I’m not sure why there is so much anti tax sentiment on the thread either.

If you don’t like the rules of a country, be grateful if you have the means to relocate somewhere else, not everyone is so lucky.

We do however now see the difference in covid times in the approaches between hands on governments and those that leave the population to do as they please.

I am one who has argued in favor of the OP from the beginning and it has nothing to do with being anti-tax. It has to do with he should not of had to pay a tax on that in this situation. All the facts are known. With the known facts he was not supposed to pay a tax. An error in communication caused this folly.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Completely wrong. "Reasonable" is irrelevant. What does the appropriate law say? If you do not like the law as written then contact those who have the power to change the law.

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but not "completely wrong". US customs are a breeze.

https://www.germany.info/us-en/servi...0of%20purchase.

as for this purchase, if they go back to their other residence within 90 days, VAT will be refunded. so even the German government recognizes this situation is ridiculous.

[pickettt]

You should’ve made her pay it.

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood.

Though, technically, if you live in a community property state, is it without consideration that half of the value remains yours? Thus, only being responsible for 19% of 50%?

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by donas

Agreed, but the last sentence is tough talk until you've been pulled into the customs interrogation room. I've been there and its scary having no control over what happens and I was police officer at the time! If I make a list of things I trust, a wild Tiger rates higher than the government and its entities.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by kearez

Work in logistics can give you a run down.

When you ship anything via air freight you, always end up telling DHL/Fedex/UPS your shipper and consignee. Next they ask you what is in your box or “shipment description” If you lie and say its “pens” when the carrier screens your shipment and noticed an inconsistency on your item, they can reject it, or ask you update the description.

Your item has now an updated description as “watch”. All this information is processed and sent to customs. When you watch arrives in UK,Germany, USA. An eagle eyed customs agent will look through the import manifest. Might see the watch on there and go hey i want to inspect shipment further. Which they can and will open the shipment.

Ive skipped some steps here such as the consol manifest etc but you get the general idea.

I had a customs agent seize a car as they didnt like the weight.

whoa

[Watchflair]

That's tough - sorry to hear. I find the less you say sometimes the better in those situations.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

That's tough - sorry to hear. I find the less you say sometimes the better in those situations.

sage advice. Are you allowed to not answer?

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I am one who has argued in favor of the OP from the beginning and it has nothing to do with being anti-tax. It has to do with he should not of had to pay a tax on that in this situation. All the facts are known. With the known facts he was not supposed to pay a tax. An error in communication caused this folly.

Based on the information he disclosed to the customs agent, then the tax was owed. The customs agent can’t be blamed for believing what he was told.

I am probably in a minority, but do see paying a good amount of tax into the system as a beneficial thing for society overall.

One of the ironies in this is that the word ‘gift’ in german means poison.

I’ve been stopped by Zoll, in the car at night coming home, he had one hand on his gun, the other with a torch on me but after they searched my stuff and established who I was/ why I was there they sent me on the way with a reminder to stop at their checkpoint next time.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Burlington

Based on the information he disclosed to the customs agent, then the tax was owed. The customs agent can’t be blamed for believing what he was told.

I am probably in a minority, but do see paying a good amount of tax into the system as a beneficial thing for society overall.

One of the ironies in this is that the word ‘gift’ in german means poison.

I’ve been stopped by Zoll, in the car at night coming home, he had one hand on his gun, the other with a torch on me but after they searched my stuff and established who I was/ why I was there they sent me on the way with a reminder to stop at their checkpoint next time.

I thought they knocked down the wall?

[brandrea]

I’m gonna travel with the receipt when I wear my leather jacket

[cornerstore]

OP you appear to be a Canadian resident. Canada customs issues travel cards for expensive jewelry and watches to minimize these types of events. Something to ponder, Canada customs could challenge an old out of country purchase by a returning resident if when imported initially customs duties and taxes were not paid by the importer/ purchaser. Generally citizens of a country returning to their homeland only pay duties and taxes if they and or the goods will remain in the country. In other words if your girl friend also lives in Canada then the customs officers in Germany were likely in the wrong. If she is a German resident then you are trapped by your gift declaration. In any event gift or no gift, if she is a German resident then likely the catalyst for taxes was she was wearing it / in control of the watch when crossing the German border, regardless who actually owns it.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Burlington

Based on the information he disclosed to the customs agent, then the tax was owed. The customs agent can’t be blamed for believing what he was told.

I am probably in a minority, but do see paying a good amount of tax into the system as a beneficial thing for society overall.

One of the ironies in this is that the word ‘gift’ in german means poison.

I’ve been stopped by Zoll, in the car at night coming home, he had one hand on his gun, the other with a torch on me but after they searched my stuff and established who I was/ why I was there they sent me on the way with a reminder to stop at their checkpoint next time.

I’m quite sure you’re in the minority on this however I’ve never been a person to stop another individual for paying as much taxes as they want. More power to you.