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23 September 2018, 09:38 AM | #1 |
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Scratch Removal on Sapphire Crystal??
Hello all:
I looked at my SD DEEPSEA today and noticed a scratch on the crystal. I literally felt a moment of panic! It is from the "A" in "DEEPSEA" diagonally down to the date-window. I really can't even feel it, so I'm hopeful that it can be polished/buffed out (not sure about the proper terminology.) Of course, my biggest fear is having to have it replaced over such a small scratch. However, leaving it as-is would drive me insane. I've been looking online and keep seeing people referencing "Diamond Paste" in varying degrees and/or combinations. I have also watched several YouTube videos of people using it on sapphire crystals, or so they claim anyway. I have attached a photo of one such product that seemed to show up the most frequently. It comes with a small buffing-type bit for a Dremel or drill. I would attach the bezel guard that came with my watch on prior to any such cleaning. Can anyone advise me as to whether the scratch can actually be removed and, if so, what product(s) would be best for the job? Thanks in advance for any wisdom you share. I would never attempt something like that without first hearing from the experts who reside here! |
23 September 2018, 01:02 PM | #2 |
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If you definitely can't feel or catch your fingernail on it, then it can be removed and yes, diamond paste is the best way to do it. You will need two different grades. Start with something like 2.5-3.0 micron to remove the scratch but that will leave the area a tad hazy so you need to go over it a second time with a final polish 0.5-1.0 micron. Take some pauses if/when the crystal gets real warm. Be careful not to catch the dremel's chuck on the watch or you will have even bigger problems.
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23 September 2018, 01:15 PM | #3 |
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Great! Thanks for the good information! By chance, are you familiar with any particular brand of Diamond paste? I want to try to buy from a reputable seller...if at all possible. With certain products, eBay can be full of surprises!
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23 September 2018, 02:14 PM | #4 |
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I just found a reputable company called "Engis". They seem to make a good quality diamond paste. I just need to order the proper micron/grit strength! On their website, a link to which I am not yet allowed to add here (not enough posts yet,) they do a "Case Study" in which they successfully removed a fairly deep scratch on the sapphire crystal of a Panerai watch.
Although, I didn't fully understand one of the helpful tips they gave that read: "VERY IMPORTANT: Make a mark showing the spot and cover it with transparent tape. You might do unnecessary rubbing because you cannot see it after applying the paste." What am I missing here? It seems like covering my scratch with tape would prevent the polishing bob from actually touching the scratch. OR, it seems like the polishing bob would chew up or remove the tape. If this makes sense to you, please explain! "moldpolishing engis com" |
23 September 2018, 02:37 PM | #5 |
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Not sure what they meant about marking the scratch. There will be a ton of paste leftover so you can definitely waste some by wiping it away periodically to view the scratch while you're working. I don't agree with your site's recommend of 9, 6, and 3 micron. Like I said earlier, I would use 3 at coarsest and finish off with 0.5 or 1 micron.
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23 September 2018, 02:45 PM | #6 |
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Yes, siding with you, I ordered a .5, 1 and 3 for the job! I'm glad you found the site. Maybe you can post it for others to reference if they ever find themselves in my predicament. It seemed like some good, common sense, tips/advice they were giving... especially removing too much and creating a "valley"...that would be devastating!
They also echoed your warning about the heat build-up! |
23 September 2018, 06:22 PM | #7 |
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I'm very curious how this will turn out.
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23 September 2018, 07:16 PM | #8 |
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Put tape on bezel
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23 September 2018, 07:19 PM | #9 |
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You seem a bit dubious Bas?
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23 September 2018, 07:23 PM | #10 |
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Not at all, I just have never seen it done so I'd like to know if this works or not.
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23 September 2018, 07:43 PM | #11 |
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23 September 2018, 07:58 PM | #12 |
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At a minimum you'll need a buffing bit per grit and be very thorough in cleaning the watch between grits. I've lapped parts in a different industry with diamond media and cross-contamination is a real thing. If you lap (or polish in this case) with your finest grit and still have larger particles remaining, they'll show up pretty quickly.
I'm curious how this turns out as well. I've read about people polishing their sapphire crystals but have never followed the results. In theory it's possible to achieve. Good luck and keep us posted! |
23 September 2018, 08:03 PM | #13 |
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So, looks like you’re the guinea pig M.
Post up the results.
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23 September 2018, 09:57 PM | #14 |
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I have done this and while elimimating the main scratch is possible whay will happen is that you will create many smaller scratches( they will show only with sunlight). If this is acceptable is a personal decision. I ended up changing the crystal at Rolex. The finer paste I used was .25 microns. I did not observe any distortions after the job.
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24 September 2018, 02:30 AM | #15 |
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Honestly, Even though I have purchased the 3 syringes of diamond paste, as well as a set of pllishing bobs (thanks for the tip 037,) I still don't feel comfortable doing the actual job. It sounds like, unless I do it perfectly (and I have no experience doing this, so how could I?,) I will either remove too much glass or still leave some sort of blemish that can be seen! If my only other option were to get it replaced, I guess I would really have nothing to lose, so why not give it a shot. However, the option that might be the most sensible would be to find a professional who is highly qualified and experienced at this, what seems to be, very delicate procudure! That could be the difference between a few hundred dollars versus prpbably $1000. I saw one original Rolex crystal online for $875, and that was being sold by an individual. I never could find one anywhere else.
Before purchasing my SDDS, I purchased a nice quality replica to make absolutely sure I wanted to spend the money on the real thing. I considered purposely scratching the crystal on it and using it as the guinea pig, but i know it's apples and oranges relative to the actual material I'd be polishing...soft vs extremely hard! One has to know their limits, and I just don't think I'm qualified to do this proficiently enough to expect or achieve an exceptable outcome. |
24 September 2018, 03:07 AM | #16 |
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m12462, do you have any idea how the crystal managed to become scratched in the first place?
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24 September 2018, 03:11 AM | #17 |
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I do not. I honestly have no idea but would love to know what could have done this.
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24 September 2018, 03:12 AM | #18 |
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Even though I have purchased the three syringes of diamond paste, as well as a set of polishing Bob’s (thanks for the tip 037,) I still don’t feel comfortable doing this job. It sounds like unless I do it perfectly (and I’ve never done this before, so how could I?,) I will either remove too much glass or leave some kind of blemish that can still be seen. If my only other option were to have it replaced, I guess there would be no harm in giving it a shot. However,what seems to make the most sense is to find a professional who is highly qualified and very experienced doing this procedure.
Before I purchased my SDDS, I Purchased the high-quality replica to make sure that I wanted to spend the money on the real thing. I considered scratching the crystal on that one, using it as my guinea pig. However, I know that would be apples an oranges...one soft and one extremely hard. One needs to know their own limitations and I simply do not feel qualified to perform this procedure and have any expectation of an acceptable outcome...only more frustration. Dazed and confused! |
24 September 2018, 04:25 AM | #19 |
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Sapphire is a synthetic rock.
It's possible that if you cannot feel it with your fingernail, it is not a scratch but something that has left a burnish mark, and it will come off easily with your polish and some rubbing. Initial polishing of sapphire uses a solid brass or iron lap with the compound, which you are not likely to use. If your mark does not come off or be significantly diminished with some compound and cheesecloth, you aren't likely to polish it without power tools or professional help.
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24 September 2018, 05:20 AM | #20 |
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Here's a little better shot of the line (although the photo is not very clear.) I absolutely cannot feel it with my finger. If I can feel it with my fingernal, it is so minimal and I have to look colsely to make sure my nail is in the right spot. I like to close my eyes and try to feel it to make sure I'm not THINKING I'm feeling it because I know I'm right on it. Initially, I kept feeling the slight gap between the crystal and the bezel! lol
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24 September 2018, 05:57 AM | #21 |
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Here's another try at including a photo...
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24 September 2018, 09:33 AM | #22 |
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Hard to say without seeing it in person. But, the fact that it's less pronounced in your first pic and more pronounced in your second leads me to side with it being a scratch.
Tough call on what to do. If you do try to polish it, start with the finest particle size and work lengthwise with the scratch. This might be enough to minimize the effect of it catching light and being visible. Plus, you'll risk less damage with the finer particle size. A new crystal is best overall. But, the price is steep plus a DSSD requires special pressure testing typically only offered by an RSC, adding to the overall cost. At this point it's potentially worth a try. Plus I'm really curious if it works. |
24 September 2018, 10:20 AM | #23 |
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037, I hear ya! It's such a tough call. If it ultimately has to be replaced, it would certainly be interesting to see exactly how well the diamond paste works. And, it really would not matter if I did too much or too little. However, I still think my best chance of having it satifactorily repaired WITHOUT having it replaced is to find a watchmaker who has done this MANY times.
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24 September 2018, 10:24 AM | #24 |
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By the way, does anyone know the cost of a sapphire crystal for a SDDS 44mm?
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24 September 2018, 11:04 AM | #25 |
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I don't know the crystal price but you might ask Rik at Time Care Inc about potentially polishing it. timecareinc.com is his site. He'll be open on Tuesday. The only catch is that I don't believe he has the equipment to pressure test a DSSD to full depth. Ask him to be sure though.
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24 September 2018, 03:17 PM | #26 | |
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Quote:
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24 September 2018, 11:38 PM | #27 |
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Sure thing. Keep us posted with your process. Curious how this turns out.
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27 September 2018, 12:59 PM | #28 |
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We've tried this with varying results. I forget the paste but we got it out of the Stullers catalog and it was very course. Applied it with a hard Grobet buff wheel attached to a Foredom handpiece spinning at 10,000 rpm. One time we worked a scratch into a dent. Other times we made a good improvement but not entirely gone. Really light scratches perhaps. I'm not sure if the diamond paste is truly a 10 on the mohs scale. I'm convinced the sapphire crystal is a 9 and the paste is barely higher. Maybe 9.1. You really have to work it for a long time.
I think one truly motivated to do this will try a lot of different pastes and maybe a wet application with a diamond stone. Not sure if a person this motivated actually exists. That being said, Deep Sea crystals are impossible to get even with a parts account. |
27 September 2018, 01:28 PM | #29 |
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27 September 2018, 08:51 PM | #30 |
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I have a similar scratch on my old 93 16600 SD, will follow and maybe post a before/after myself.
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