New to vintage looking for insight before buying a Submariner

[Xidor6]

Hi guys, I’m new to the forum, but have been looking for a few years here and other sites.

I wanted to finally join and hope to gain a little more knowledge from you experts before buying my first Rolex vintage Submariner, my main interest is a 1967 Submariner. So I’ve been studying them for many years. I just learned the difference between the 5512 and 5513, that being the 5512 models has the 4 line dial Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified.

I do own a new Submariner which I bought from a certified dealer. While I really wanted a vintage, I decided for my first Rolex, I wanted a new Submariner with my name on the card and a warranty I would wear daily. It was purchased on March 2015. I’ve been very happy with it.

But I’ve kept looking and trying to understand the vintage market. I’ve seen many come and go and when I first started looking on one of the trusted vendors websites, the prices for the 1967 models were on par with a new one. Now they’ve gone over twice the price of a new one. If I look around at other sellers, the prices vary quite a bit. I come to realize the factors that affect the variance, such as a service dial and hands and or newer bezel inserts will affect the value. I guess what I’m trying to understand is have these watches really appreciated that much so fast? Or maybe I just never saw the higher value watches. I suppose this has a lot to do with scarcity. I should probably apologize if these are really rookie questions. I’m still learning.

I’d like to find one with the rivet bracelet, but I see those are rare now. A missing pearl seems common so I wondered if a vintage bezel insert with the pearl intact is possible to find to replace the insert. I imagine these watches can have a service too at Rolex but I get the sense you can request that they do not change the hands and dial, but the crystals and seals are still available and can be made water proof.

I’d love to find a vintage to wear daily, and I’d like to get a good and fair deal and make sure I make the right choice from a good dealer. Since there’s a well known dealer near me in San Francisco, that could be one and he has a 1967 now. I tend to buy and keep and not one to buy and sell. So I’d like to be careful and buy the right one for me. I’m in no hurry but if the right one comes along, I imagine one has to act quickly. Thanks for any insights!

[Beelzy]

Best to hunt quickly, prices are crazy.
Heck, even a bezel pearl that was $100 a year or so back is fetching $300 now.
Just remember what I foolishly did not.....Never sell a 5513.

[twnturbo]

Welcome aboard & like you i trolled for a few years & watched prices double in that time,but i'm glad i didn't jump in too early & had the time to learn the subtle differences like you said ,like the bracelet type or the bezel ,all of which can really make the watch a stunning piece.I also found in that time that my preference for the amount of patina really changed so sounds like it's time ,to take the leap good luck .

[spoilsofwar01]

Hello and welcome, the 5512 comes without the crown guards and are very rare in original condition, 2 years ago I bought my 1st Rolex which is a 5513

The hands and dial are service replacement's and the strap although original Rolex strap it is not correct for a 5513,

this is how I bought it and how it will stay,

Tread carefully and be patient I'm sure the right one will come along for you.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by spoilsofwar01

Hello and welcome, the 5512 comes without the crown guards and are very rare in original condition, 2 years ago I bought my 1st Rolex which is a 5513

The hands and dial are service replacement's and the strap although original Rolex strap it is not correct for a 5513,

this is how I bought it and how it will stay,

Tread carefully and be patient I'm sure the right one will come along for you.

5512s most certainly come WITH crownguards.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by spoilsofwar01

Hello and welcome, the 5512 comes without the crown guards and are very rare in original condition, 2 years ago I bought my 1st Rolex which is a 5513

The hands and dial are service replacement's and the strap although original Rolex strap it is not correct for a 5513,

this is how I bought it and how it will stay,

Tread carefully and be patient I'm sure the right one will come along for you.

No Crown guards on a 5512?

[Xidor6]

Thanks for the replies and welcome!

Ok, so I should act quickly if the right one comes along. That’s good advise.

“H” that service dial does not have the white gold surrounds on each hour marker, I did t think you could get those from a Rolex servicing so recently. It looks great.

Twnturbo, you mention your preference for patina has changed. Over the course of my studies, I’m seeing how the creamy color of the lume on the hour markers and hands to be desirable as it ages. I get that. And I’ve read that the faded color of the bezel insert can be desirable. Of course I’d love a new-old stock for those, but I get it and from nice examples, they do look cool with that level of patina.

[Richard Carver]

There are two extremely high quality dealers in your neighborhood, HQ Milton who has a brick and mortar store that is appointment only and Eric Ku who is one of the top dealers in the world. Lucky you.

I sense a hesitation in your post that may stem from your lack of knowledge, perhaps even a bit of embarrassment because of that. As you have observed, your hesitation is going to cost you dearly. Either of these sellers will be happy to help you decide what direction to go. Maybe a nice clean service watch with later insert, dial and hands might work for you. They are less money as well.

Just surrender yourself to a top dealer. They would rather take a beating than screw you. Their reputation is everything to them. They will talk with you and help you decide what you really want and they will help you find it.

Jacek at http://hqmilton.com/ and Eric at http://10pastten.com

[Xidor6]

Richard- thank you very much with the recommendations on local dealers. I have emailed Jacek once and he replied right away. But I didn’t talk to him more. Maybe a phone call is a better idea. And I only found 10 past Ten recently, I was wondering if he was local to me as I couldn’t tell from his site. That will be great and i’ll Check him out.

Regarding hesitation, yes. I’d rather be careful to spend that much. Considering I already have a fine watch, a second more expensive older watch is sort of crazy. If I buy a vintage watch, I just want to make the right choice. So I appreciate the advise to talk to those two dealers. More knowledge and their help will be great!

[Kingface66]

And if you happen to run across a 5512 with no crown guards, definitely do NOT buy it

[spoilsofwar01]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

5512s most certainly come WITH crownguards.

Apologizes, it had been a long day and I was incorrectly thinking of a 1957 Rolex Submariner ref. 6536-1 Not the 5512,,,, please forgive me..........

[spoilsofwar01]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

No Crown guards on a 5512?

Apologizes, it had been a long day and I was incorrectly thinking of a 1957 Rolex Submariner ref. 6536-1 Not the 5512,,,, please forgive me

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Xidor6

Richard- thank you very much with the recommendations on local dealers. I have emailed Jacek once and he replied right away. But I didn’t talk to him more. Maybe a phone call is a better idea. And I only found 10 past Ten recently, I was wondering if he was local to me as I couldn’t tell from his site. That will be great and i’ll Check him out.

Regarding hesitation, yes. I’d rather be careful to spend that much. Considering I already have a fine watch, a second more expensive older watch is sort of crazy. If I buy a vintage watch, I just want to make the right choice. So I appreciate the advise to talk to those two dealers. More knowledge and their help will be great!

The HQ Milton site is an amazing teaching aid for the study of vintage Rolex to help learn all the variables of dials, cases, hands, inserts and bracelets. This link is *just* 1967 subs. :)

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...967+submariner

[spoilsofwar01]

Originally Posted by Xidor6

Thanks for the replies and welcome!

Ok, so I should act quickly if the right one comes along. That’s good advise.

“H” that service dial does not have the white gold surrounds on each hour marker, I did t think you could get those from a Rolex servicing so recently. It looks great.

Twnturbo, you mention your preference for patina has changed. Over the course of my studies, I’m seeing how the creamy color of the lume on the hour markers and hands to be desirable as it ages. I get that. And I’ve read that the faded color of the bezel insert can be desirable. Of course I’d love a new-old stock for those, but I get it and from nice examples, they do look cool with that level of patina.

Hello and thank you, it was just the movement that was serviced in 2012 and the advisory was the dial was beginning to deteriorate, Rolex wouldn't comment further, I did mange to get out of them that no major parts were replaced and no further details would be given in regards to its history, shame, looking at the dial & hand this could have been done over 30 years ago, when its comes to having it servicing again I hope that there's some indication on the back of the dial.....unless anyone can advise further, rgds "H"

[Xidor6]

Hey Richard, H, thanks for the replies.

And thanks for the link to the 1967 only Subs at the HQ Milton site. Definitely a nice way to study a variety of them in various states of patina and wear. There was one 1967 model they had for sale a few years ago that looked really good, but I didn’t feel I knew enough to pull the trigger on. Wished I did!

[onthedial]

@Xidor6
You didn't say if anything but a '67 is non-negotiable, but if you would be willing to broaden your search, the chances of finding a late 60s - early 70s Ref. 5512 or 5513 in good condition is quite do-able. If you're strictly tied to a 67 model you'll need to be both patient (while they trickle into the market) and quickly responsive (all-correct examples are increasingly hard to find).
Enjoy the hunt!
_________
Instagram: @onthedial

[Xidor6]

A 1967 model would be ideal. I realize it does limit the search. I’ve seen some nice 1965, 1968 and 1970 models. I’ll keep an open mind and did consider the 1965 model, but i’d Like to find a 67, so yes, I’ll be patient.

[andrewwood86]

the 5513mattedial website (google it) is an absolute must read too. This was extremely valuable before I bought my 5513

[Xidor6]

Thanks Andrew, I’m definitely familiar with that site. Though I’ve not been there recently, still scratching the surface. Interesting he has a separate 5512 section now. The gilt gloss dial section was very informative.

[Xidor6]

Hey guys, I see that HQMilton has a 1967 Submariner. Though I’m thinking of passing on it as the crystal looks unusually tall. And the crystal thickness is distorting the view of the hour markers. Is this an unusual crystal that is installed on this watch? Thanks for any thoughts.

Looks like I’m not allowed to post links yet, but it should be easy to find.

[Xidor6]

Hey guys again, I couldn’t edit the above post, so wanted to add that after posting, I see that HQMilton has another 1967 Submariner. What got me curious is they list it as unpolished and still has original bevels. Though they look pretty rounded from all the wear and tear. I imagine that is another desirable trait for searching for a vintage watch. So along with case, dial condition and bezels, if the case doesn’t appear to be polished or is said to be polished, that’s a good thing. I really like a polished and sharp bevel, but maybe I have to reset my expectations. Thanks!