Why do people find patina beautiful

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

exactly.
not sure how this thread derailed into damaged watches and all your vintage dials will soon turn to dust. This is just nonsense.

The 1016 mentioned earlier in the thread is from HQMilton, was promoted as a "tropical", promoted thusly:

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1962...016-matte-dial

"Very Good tropical glossy gilt chapter ring dial with creamy markers. The Tritium on the hands has aged to a brown hue. The glossy finish on the dial has aged to matte. The black portion of the dial has aged to a gray/brown hue."

They didn't promote it as 'damaged'. They called it a "very good tropical" which I find misleading.

As far as dials eroding to dust, these things don't last forever. My 1964 Ed White Speedmaster (above) in a 10 year span went from looking very crisp (2006) to having significant lume fade and hand flake (2016) and I got rid of it before it got worse. It was barely worn, spent those last 10 years in a cool and dry place, not sure what else I could have done to keep it sharp, can't imagine what would have happened if I wore it for a significant amount of time. That image of that Wittnauer electric I posted earlier, half my dial got speckled and rust-looking, again, stored in a cool dry place and barely worn.

There has to be a reality faced that says years down the line what now looks like charming patina will devolve into rustic and then into unrecoverable. Not nonsense. Inevitable.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by ILuvSubs

This is a great thread OP. Thanks for starting the debate

Thanks to Frogman4me and Speedolex for sharing some beautiful examples!

Thank you!

Debate and photo sharing is ultimately what we're here for. My vintage Rolex collection above [oops, when Photobucket comes back up from maintenance I guess], I prefer like-new condition over heavy patina, prefer to represent vintage Rolexes as they came from the factory decades ago.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by acf321

Here ye Speedo, and some other great thoughts on this.

For me, Patina is like an old bottle of wine. It's the history that drags me in. When I look at the face of a genuinely old watch (or anything) it makes me nostalgic and I wonder who else has seen it, and how their lives turned out, and ultimately ended over time.

I bought a 5500 Explorer recently that some of you might have seen my post from. When it arrived, I knew it had a newly painted dial which I could handle at first. It was only when I sat with a friend who was wearing his original 1958 Explorer with faded hands and dial that I literally turned green and 'hated' my watch from that moment. I sent the watch back and got a refund.

Since then, I have bought a lovely one owner 1980 1016, which has very slight browning of the dial and creamy markers and hands. It's original with papers and is neither 'worn out' or 'beaten up', jut nicely aged. I feel like the watch has a lot of life left in it yet, and I hope to pass it onto my Son some day. The thing I love about this watch is the fact that it has a genuine story to tell, that someone was wearing it when the Berlin Wall fell, as well as every other event in the last 36 years. That is something that all the money in the world can't buy, and to me is the underlying attraction of an older watch, and ultimately Patina.

just my two bob's worth anyway.

Good post, agree with it all.

My 1960 1016 may have a dial and hands from 1979 but it doesn't make wearing it any less significant. It was on someone's wrist when JFK was elected President, when the Beatles revolutionized music, when we landed on the moon, before my parents went on their first date. But yet I can wear it today and not feel like I am wearing a tired, dated, old watch, looks new. It's the best of both worlds.

[cajuntiger]

Your watch looks great, but are you suggesting that this a tired and dated old watch then?
http://www.rolexforums.com/showpost....02&postcount=2

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

Your watch looks great, but are you suggesting that this a tired and dated old watch then?
http://www.rolexforums.com/showpost....02&postcount=2

No!

Of course not, nor the fantastic Sea Dweller posted earlier this evening. Those are fantastic, just the right amount of patina to make it interesting. But notice the cases, the lugs, the crystals, the bezels, those are all minty-mint, like new.

What we're down to, I think, is just how degraded the consumable parts should be for the sake of authenticity vs. the practice of using OEM replacement parts for said consumables. Rolex themselves subscribe to my view; they freely replace dials, hands, and bezels which fade away over time. That 1016 and that SD look awesome in large part because they are like-new specimens everywhere except the dial and hands, so there should be no crime in bringing the dial and hands up to the same speed as the rest of the watch once said patina becomes a detriment.

"Vintage" is not only defined by originality of components; it is also defined as originality of design and one can argue that the brilliant design that Rolex intended when those watches left the factory in the 1970's gets compromised when bright white turns to beige and deep black turns to grey.

[yoast]

Originally Posted by jban5

I recall reading somewhere that tritium that has not had exposure to light darkens. Is this factual?

Correct, the longer tritium is in the dark, the more yellow or orange it becomes. This applies mostly to the first 10 years or so. (during its half-life period)

[bjavor]

While my original question has already been sort of answered I just wanted to say that I'm very much in line with everything that speedolex has said.

Also would like to emphasize again, that I never questioned why someone would want to own an old watch, nor why one would prefer original parts over replacements. I also understand why one would want to own that Certina, due to its rareness and historic value. (I just would never call it beautiful.) What my original question was mostly about was why someone given everything else being equal (same watch, same age etc.) would actively prefer and seek out ones that are in "worse" condition over those that look more close to original... But again, this has been answered in a more or less satisfactory way now.

I would also wholehartedly agree with the notion expressed earlier that while one can love an old watch for its age and for its decades old design and, I'm totally on board with that. But that does not imply it has to look worn. I would find a watch designed and made in the 60s totally awesome even if it looked like it just rolled off the assembly line... Though, again, based on the answers above I can now sort of understand how a _little_ patina would look good as long as it is still "tasteful" and does not totally "ruin" the watch.

[bjavor]

Originally Posted by clock

Bjavor, take a look at the 1016 in this thread:
New 1016 *Very excited to show you guys*

Interested in your impression of the patina on this watch.

I think that one looks beautiful. I would love to own that one :) I love the explorer.

As I've mentioned before I do actually like the creamy/beige look and is defitely within the accpetable range. What I start to dislike is the more harsh yellow/orange look (typically on tritium dials).

[1675-David]

Patina is an allegory for the fundamental tension of our modern world and the inescapable truth, none of us are getting any younger. That vintage lovers tend to be around middle age and above could simply be put down to the cost of these watches but others might argue that because a rolex and a man will age at roughly the same rate that there is a connection on a much more personal level or as George Orwell put it "At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.”

On a lighter note there are cosmetic procedures available for those who wish reverse the aging process or advance it depending on what your agenda maybe!! :thumbs:

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

The watch on the left says absolutely nothing to me except, "Hey, I spent a lot of money on a watch that everyone else without any imagination can buy." Whereas, the one on the right....well, if you don't "get" why it's as beautiful as it is, then maybe you never will. And that's fine. And I do mean that.

I have both, and appreciate them for different reasons/purposes. Ain't nothing nasty about a Sub C, or indeed about a yellowed gilt 5513!

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I have both, and appreciate them for different reasons/purposes. Ain't nothing nasty about a Sub C, or indeed about a yellowed gilt 5513!

No comparison!

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I have both, and appreciate them for different reasons/purposes. Ain't nothing nasty about a Sub C, or indeed about a yellowed gilt 5513!

Both watches are beautiful, congrats.

But let me ask you what your exit strategy is for the 5513 which looks to be around 5 years from mass destruction. Are you going to restore it? Find a new dial? Sell it before it's too late? I'm curious what you're going to do on the other side of the Bell curve.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by bjavor

While my original question has already been sort of answered I just wanted to say that I'm very much in line with everything that speedolex has said.

Also would like to emphasize again, that I never questioned why someone

I would also wholehartedly agree with the notion expressed earlier that while one can love an old watch for its age and for its decades old design and, I'm totally on board with that. But that does not imply it has to look worn.

Nicely stated bjavor, quite true on all accounts.

While many of your questions have been answered and I feel like there is a better understanding now, I am still unclear on what the fans of the patina dials are going to do 5, 10, 15 years from now when their dials go nuclear. Consumables like dials, hands, and bezels aren't meant to last forever, not sure what the future holds for their owners. Wondering if they think about this and what their exit strategy is.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by speedolex

That all who embrace "tropical" watches realize that years down the road they're either going to helplessly witness them turning into piles of dust or wind up doing some sort of restoration. This has been discussed, yes? There is an exit strategy 10, 20 years from now when all those 5513's start peeling and flaking like this unfortunate 1016 up there, yes? So my preemptive efforts are not different than where everyone else is going to be down the road, yes? So high-fives all around, yes?

And in about 6 billion years the sun and our solar system will all 'helplessly' turn to space dust and none of us will witness it! High five!

[psv]

A bit late to the party, it was an interesting thread to read through.

I hate to say it, but love for patina/vintage/tropical/etc has a lot to do with trends and general movement in society. I've been into watches for about 30 years now, and I've lived through the dramatic shift. Back then, all but a very few people cared about vintage watches, patina was never really talked about and tropical was mostly referred to as water-damaged dials. You could pick up a 1655 Explorer for $4-500, I remember vintage Breitlings being around $100-200.

There has been a massive change since then. The advent of internet that connected collectors of all sorts was really a game changer. Like it or not, eBay and later Craigslist, Timezone.com, etc were pioneers when it came to the sales of used watches. For the last few years, Hodinkee and the likes have been in the forefront of pushing the sub-culture of vintage as well as high end watches to the mainstream. And lastly, the enormous price increases in vintage watches has made it a highly attractive area for rich people making investments, as well as the much less talked about reality of money laundering (what better way to clean up some ill-gotten gains that get a couple of Paul Newman Daytonas...).

Most people who are crazy for patina have gotten into the game over the last few years. Education and appreciation for vintage watches have risen drastically. Personally I view that as a good thing. It is great to see people develop and deepen their passion and understanding about watches. There is a risk of excessive belief in patina at the moment, one have to differentiate between abuse and patina IMO. Selling something that has been banged to sh-t or damaged as "patina" is not correct, but that is where the market is at the moment. It will normalize over time.

For me, I'm not crazy for all types of patina but for me it is about a watch being able to tell a story. I like "honest" vintage pieces, that have been polished overtime by use instead of a service technician. A 50 years old dive watch with absolutely no sign of use is a bit sad when you think about it ;-) Having said that, I'm no fan of Easybake-owen-yellow patina or faux patina on new pieces, but a nice even patina on a dial as well as case I think can be a thing of beauty.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by psv

A bit late to the party, it was an interesting thread to read through.

I hate to say it, but love for patina/vintage/tropical/etc has a lot to do with trends and general movement in society. I've been into watches for about 30 years now, and I've lived through the dramatic shift. Back then, all but a very few people cared about vintage watches, patina was never really talked about and tropical was mostly referred to as water-damaged dials. You could pick up a 1655 Explorer for $4-500, I remember vintage Breitlings being around $100-200.

There has been a massive change since then. The advent of internet that connected collectors of all sorts was really a game changer. Like it or not, eBay and later Craigslist, Timezone.com, etc were pioneers when it came to the sales of used watches. For the last few years, Hodinkee and the likes have been in the forefront of pushing the sub-culture of vintage as well as high end watches to the mainstream. And lastly, the enormous price increases in vintage watches has made it a highly attractive area for rich people making investments, as well as the much less talked about reality of money laundering (what better way to clean up some ill-gotten gains that get a couple of Paul Newman Daytonas...).

Most people who are crazy for patina have gotten into the game over the last few years. Education and appreciation for vintage watches have risen drastically. Personally I view that as a good thing. It is great to see people develop and deepen their passion and understanding about watches. There is a risk of excessive belief in patina at the moment, one have to differentiate between abuse and patina IMO. Selling something that has been banged to sh-t or damaged as "patina" is not correct, but that is where the market is at the moment. It will normalize over time.

For me, I'm not crazy for all types of patina but for me it is about a watch being able to tell a story. I like "honest" vintage pieces, that have been polished overtime by use instead of a service technician. A 50 years old dive watch with absolutely no sign of use is a bit sad when you think about it ;-) Having said that, I'm no fan of Easybake-owen-yellow patina or faux patina on new pieces, but a nice even patina on a dial as well as case I think can be a thing of beauty.

Yes Yes Yes & Yes. Plus emerging cash-rich markets willing to buy anything 'expensive'

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Nicely stated bjavor, quite true on all accounts.

While many of your questions have been answered and I feel like there is a better understanding now, I am still unclear on what the fans of the patina dials are going to do 5, 10, 15 years from now when their dials go nuclear. Consumables like dials, hands, and bezels aren't meant to last forever, not sure what the future holds for their owners. Wondering if they think about this and what their exit strategy is.

It seems you and the OP are on the same page and the majority of us are not. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think there is any reason for us to try and convince you otherwise but I get this feeling that you are trying to get us to agree with you that we need to consider service dials for our original dials because of this notion that 5/10/15 years from now something is going to happen to it. Honestly who thinks like that in watch collecting? Seems to be a joy kill thinking this way. I do not believe that any of my watches 5 years from now are going to look any different. In fact I have owned some of my vintage watches for more than 5 years and they still look the same as when I bought them. The way your average watch collector wears their vintage watches its unlikely that excessive damage is going to happen to them. Even if a little bit did I doubt their first inclination is that they would replace the original parts with service parts. Being in this hobby for awhile I just don't see that ever happening but who knows. For me, I would rather own an original dial with a couple of "defects" over a service dial. But if you prefer otherwise that is completely ok.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

And in about 6 billion years the sun and our solar system will all 'helplessly' turn to space dust and none of us will witness it! High five!

Ha ha ha, very funny.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by psv

A bit late to the party, it was an interesting thread to read through.

I hate to say it, but love for patina/vintage/tropical/etc has a lot to do with trends and general movement in society. I've been into watches for about 30 years now, and I've lived through the dramatic shift. Back then, all but a very few people cared about vintage watches, patina was never really talked about and tropical was mostly referred to as water-damaged dials. You could pick up a 1655 Explorer for $4-500, I remember vintage Breitlings being around $100-200.

There has been a massive change since then. The advent of internet that connected collectors of all sorts was really a game changer. Like it or not, eBay and later Craigslist, Timezone.com, etc were pioneers when it came to the sales of used watches. For the last few years, Hodinkee and the likes have been in the forefront of pushing the sub-culture of vintage as well as high end watches to the mainstream. And lastly, the enormous price increases in vintage watches has made it a highly attractive area for rich people making investments, as well as the much less talked about reality of money laundering (what better way to clean up some ill-gotten gains that get a couple of Paul Newman Daytonas...).

Most people who are crazy for patina have gotten into the game over the last few years. Education and appreciation for vintage watches have risen drastically. Personally I view that as a good thing. It is great to see people develop and deepen their passion and understanding about watches. There is a risk of excessive belief in patina at the moment, one have to differentiate between abuse and patina IMO. Selling something that has been banged to sh-t or damaged as "patina" is not correct, but that is where the market is at the moment. It will normalize over time.

For me, I'm not crazy for all types of patina but for me it is about a watch being able to tell a story. I like "honest" vintage pieces, that have been polished overtime by use instead of a service technician. A 50 years old dive watch with absolutely no sign of use is a bit sad when you think about it ;-) Having said that, I'm no fan of Easybake-owen-yellow patina or faux patina on new pieces, but a nice even patina on a dial as well as case I think can be a thing of beauty.

Great post, agree with it all. Easybake Oven, LOL.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Frogman4me

It seems you and the OP are on the same page and the majority of us are not. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think there is any reason for us to try and convince you otherwise but I get this feeling that you are trying to get us to agree with you that we need to consider service dials for our original dials because of this notion that 5/10/15 years from now something is going to happen to it. Honestly who thinks like that in watch collecting? Seems to be a joy kill thinking this way. I do not believe that any of my watches 5 years from now are going to look any different. In fact I have owned some of my vintage watches for more than 5 years and they still look the same as when I bought them. The way your average watch collector wears their vintage watches its unlikely that excessive damage is going to happen to them. Even if a little bit did I doubt their first inclination is that they would replace the original parts with service parts. Being in this hobby for awhile I just don't see that ever happening but who knows. For me, I would rather own an original dial with a couple of "defects" over a service dial. But if you prefer otherwise that is completely ok.

First off, not trying to convince anyone of anything. Started out that I was a curious as the OP about the motivation of patina fans, found out more about that side of collecting which is good, learned that both sides seem to feel that these ads for tropical watches are disingenuous, but then was told that my 1960 1016 wasn't "vintage enough" due to a Rolex service replacement dial and hands and made the case why that's a good thing in my mind as it's inevitable that all of our Rolexes will hit that replacement moment eventually, dials and hands and bezels are Rolex consumables, nothing wrong with it. Was a good thread, I think both sides made compelling arguments and we got to see some very cool photos.

The one open question I have, and it's mainly because eventually my 1016 and 16610 will go patina and then start to erode like the other examples here, is how can one prevent this from happening? There are people paying $3,000 to $5,000 premiums for 5513's with exciting patina. What happens to a patina owner when his watch hits that perfect beige moment? Is there a way to stop the process of it going yellow and then brown and then Easy-Bake besides getting a service dial? Some spray? Some overcoating? Don't wear it on a sunny day?

You mention that people shouldn't think this way as it's a killjoy, but honestly we're the people who study the glyphs and stems of dial typography for cripesakes, you'd think we'd want to know how to stop our dials from committing suicide, at least I do.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Frogman4me

It seems you and the OP are on the same page and the majority of us are not. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think there is any reason for us to try and convince you otherwise but I get this feeling that you are trying to get us to agree with you that we need to consider service dials for our original dials because of this notion that 5/10/15 years from now something is going to happen to it. Honestly who thinks like that in watch collecting? Seems to be a joy kill thinking this way. I do not believe that any of my watches 5 years from now are going to look any different. In fact I have owned some of my vintage watches for more than 5 years and they still look the same as when I bought them. The way your average watch collector wears their vintage watches its unlikely that excessive damage is going to happen to them. Even if a little bit did I doubt their first inclination is that they would replace the original parts with service parts. Being in this hobby for awhile I just don't see that ever happening but who knows. For me, I would rather own an original dial with a couple of "defects" over a service dial. But if you prefer otherwise that is completely ok.

This. My 5513 has held out for over 50 years in its original form, and there's no reason to think it's suddenly going to fall apart at any time in the near future. When properly looked after, these babies age like fine wines, and their value goes up in the same way.

[bjavor]

Let me just state again that I'm not per se against everyone's opinion but speedolex's. I feel I've learned a lot in this thread, for which I'm grateful. I also feel I moved significantly closer to understanding and appreciating vintage models, which was something I haven't so far considered. The main reason for that being that I already have a wish list of new watches easily worth several hundred thousand. So it might take me decades to get through that. Therefore I always felt it's not worth for me to branch out into vintyage as well. In addition I feel that buying vintage is a much more risky thing and I simply do not have the necessary experience yet to avoid being sold something fake...

That said my taste and views on watches changes at a quite fascinating pace sometimes. As I've expressed in another thread somewhere, for the longest time I've found I did not like rectangular watches and explicitely hated Art Deco. Now I'm dying to get not one but several Reversos and perhaps even a Rolex Prince!

Very recently I feel my appreciation for (some) vinatage watches rising. It is probably related to the 114060 I've bought. As I've said before I totally adore it, even though it's brand new. It is still an absolute beauty in its simplicity and clean elegance. I also do not mind the bigger lugs as my wrist is not really small. Despite that I started having this nagging feeling that I should consider taking it further and get a 14060 for that slightly different steel look and slimmer case design... I must admit I'd still prefer to have a non-patinad version for that one, but by now I would not mind a slight creamy patina after all. Or perhaps no patina on that one, but some slight patina on an even older model after that :)

And even the pictures in this thread had their effect! I really like both the SD and the Explorer shown to the degree that the 1016 now also made it to my wish list...

[droptopman]

Interesting thread. My tastes have changed over the years, but I do not believe it has anything to do with society, trends or external forces. More of an internal process and a different level of appreciation of the years.

I have been collecting since the late 80's. For a majority of that time, I always wanted the latest greatest new model. I honestly did not care for vintage pieces back then. A good friend bought and sold vintage Rolex for years and he was always offering me great deals well below market price, but I would always stay with current models. Wish I knew then what I know now.... Minty Daytona Big Red for $1500...Gilt Subs for less than 3K. A beautiful GMT in the late 90's for 2Kd....The list go on.

About ten years ago I wanted to delve into the vintage arena and specifically had him find me a "new" vintage model. In other words i wanted one with white lume and a shiny new insert. Found a nice 16750 that was just serviced and looked brand new. He tried to talk me into a more original example, but that was what I wanted at the time. He has since passed. RJ may you rest in peace brother.

When the change from 5 to 6 digits came, I never really liked the 6 digits much. I like the way they look and I like some of the new features but they just do not wear good on me.


A few years ago I really started liking "real" vintage watches more and more. I became more fond of watches with patina and non "perfect" watches with some character. Over the last couple of years, I have moved most of my small collection to 4 digit examples. I think this is a natural process for some WIS. I keep one 5 digit around for sports and the water, but not even sure that will stay much longer. I have 2 more 4 digits on the radar to purchase this year, if I can find good examples. I agree with some of the other thoughts regarding damaged "tropical" dials and skeleton hands. I do not care for the beat up look, but I do love the natural aged looked. I looked everyday on multiple sites multiple times a day to find my birth year Sub. This went on for over two years. I saw many damaged dials being sold for crazy prices. I did give me a good understanding of the vintage markets. In the end the one I found had nice patina but the deal closer was the beautiful condition of the gilt glossy dial.


There has been some discussion here about what you will do in the future. I know what I will do, I will keep enjoying this piece. It has lasted 50 years and looks this good, I believe it will out live me. My nephew who inherits it can figure out the exit strategy. I will almost guarantee you that it will be worth considerably more then--than it is now.


All hail the Gilt and the Dome



My GMT has a little soft patina as well. Soon to have a T38 dome.


Edit: Both of these watches have a more "tan" patina look to them in person than in these photos.

[yannis]

We just like it!

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Interesting thread. My tastes have changed over the years, but I do not believe it has anything to do with society, trends or external forces. More of an internal process and a different level of appreciation of the years.

I have been collecting since the late 80's. For a majority of that time, I always wanted the latest greatest new model. I honestly did not care for vintage pieces back then. A good friend bought and sold vintage Rolex for years and he was always offering me great deals well below market price, but I would always stay with current models. About ten years ago I wanted to delve into the vintage arena and specifically had him find me a "new" vintage model. In other words i wanted one with white lume and a shiny new insert. Found a nice 16750 that was just serviced and looked brand new. He tried to talk me into a more original example, but that was what I wanted at the time. He has since passed. RJ may you rest in peace brother.

All hail the Gilt and the Dome

Sorry to hear about your friend, great photos (as always).

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by bjavor

And even the pictures in this thread had their effect! I really like both the SD and the Explorer shown to the degree that the 1016 now also made it to my wish list...

Life is incomplete without a 1016. If you live in Geneva, you should have an easy time tracking one down.

[seattleal]

Originally Posted by speedolex

They didn't promote it as 'damaged'. They called it a "very good tropical" which I find misleading.

I agree with you, I don't undestand the way some of these damaged watches are promoted.

But they sell, so the only thing I can conclude is that- "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by seattleal

I agree with you, I don't undestand the way some of these damaged watches are promoted.

But they sell, so the only thing I can conclude is that- "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Call me a pessimist, but if I were a watch dealer sitting on $100,000 in vintage inventory of unsaleable watches with badly rotting dials not only would I list them egregiously as "very good tropical condition" but I'd list a few of them as "SOLD" just to make it look like they are in high demand.

It's not like I'm someone who runs a large Marketing organization and understands these strategies of course ;)

[mementomori1983]

This discussion reminds me of the proverb:

"Beauty cannot be judged objectively, for what one person finds beautiful or admirable may not appeal to another."

I no longer own this watch, but it was one of my favorites before I got into Rolex. A 1960's Omega Genevé Admiralty that was as all-original except for the crystal and second hand which I had replaced with NOS Omega parts. The "oldness" of the matte dial and the dirty lume plots just appealed to me, and I didn't wear anything else for almost a year!



Sometimes a watch just "sings" to you.

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by speedolex

The one open question I have, and it's mainly because eventually my 1016 and 16610 will go patina and then start to erode like the other examples here, is how can one prevent this from happening?

I don't think you have a clear understanding of how the patina develops and unless you are abusing your watch the chance of the lume "eroding" in your lifetime is slim to none. Also, if your watch isn't going to be stored in a dark place for the next 30 years you will not see much of a color change in your lifetime either.