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27 July 2017, 05:24 AM | #1 |
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Article questioning Patek's reputation
Our friend the Watch Snob wrote an interesting article on Patek.
http://www.askmen.com/fashion/mens-w...e-watches.html There have been some scattered criticisms on this forum regarding quality control, service time, and whether some of the newer models are just a money grab. Having owned four Pateks, I agree with a lot of what he says. It's not a brand I'm interested in any more because of some (not all) of the points raised in this article. What do you guys think? |
27 July 2017, 06:01 AM | #2 |
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Questioning Patek's reputation is a bit far for me, but I have to agree on the point of the Pilot Calatrava. It is one of the most uninspiring watches I have seen for a long time, something I would expect to roll out of the Longines or Baume & Mercier factory, not PP. Luckily only 600 of them will be made.
Also, not a fan of the increased size on the platinum Nautilus chrono & blue Aquanaut. But then again, they are a company and must make money by selling what consumers are willing to pay for. I guess there is a good market for larger size watches.
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27 July 2017, 06:14 AM | #3 |
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Pretty happy with my 3 simple sport models, 5711/12, 5167R, I think they have an incredible selection of different types to please anyone. About prices yes they have hugely raised prices, someone tell me if I am wrong but remember the 3712 being launched in 2005 for 13-15k. Not all their watches keep their value as we have seen them n a few models, 5960p grey and 1A being the 2 in my mind, but you can't get it all right. For the 40th editions they were obliged under public opinions and expectations on forums to do something, money grab not sure. Are they perfect? No, QC and service have serious defects compared to other brands, but overall I still think it's a fantastic brand.
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27 July 2017, 07:16 AM | #4 |
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Interesting article. Everything they attribute as problems of patek - I mean look at the other manufacturers. AP for example- I sold all mine. Too many issues. And talk about a money grab- who wants a limited edition Arnold or a Shaq.
Despite their issues, Patek still reigns supreme. i especially love the trend towards more 42mm watches. Good on them for adding a modern element to some of their pieces. |
27 July 2017, 07:30 AM | #5 | |
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27 July 2017, 07:45 AM | #6 |
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There is also a new interview with Thierry on Timezone and he makes the point that Patek depends on their retail network and AD's and isn't considering going the boutique route, which is how it ought to be in my opinion. So that isn't a money grab. Also, I don't think larger watches are replacing the smaller ones, they're additional so if you hate the new Aquanaut you can still get the old one for example. The Pilot watch looks bad in most pictures but "luckily only 600..." depends on your point of view. If you want one and can't get one it's bad, have one it's good, don't like it then it shouldn't matter if there are 600 or six thousand. Quality control should be better and service time also.
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27 July 2017, 08:06 AM | #7 |
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Well, i just got my first Patek this week, so if they are terrible now its probably my fault.
I thought about buying a Hublot about 10 years ago... and just by thinking about it, look at what happened to that brands reputation. Sorry |
27 July 2017, 08:07 AM | #8 |
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My 5146G seems to have tanked. I didn't buy it as an investment, watches aren't that, but a large part of its appeal was that it would hold its value. It hasn't.
I don't believe I'll ever buy another PP, or at least certainly not a new one. |
27 July 2017, 08:10 AM | #9 | |
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All had some issues. I like ap but like patek better. |
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27 July 2017, 08:11 AM | #10 |
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I think Patek took a wrong turn when Thierry took the reins, and the glory days seem more distant with each new release.
My opinion, of course, others probably will disagree. |
27 July 2017, 08:15 AM | #11 |
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Yes, I agree. The watches are now following fashion rather than defining style - larger cases, larger fonts on the dial, and dare I say it, outright bling.
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27 July 2017, 08:59 AM | #12 |
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Which is why every new piece has a wait list
10 year wait for 5524. People salivating for the "ugly and simple" 5522 Advanced Research selling for double MSRP Impossible to find 5711 Yeah- they are sure doing crappy and making poor decisions. |
27 July 2017, 09:11 AM | #13 |
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I believe Patek needs to modernize a bit faster with more inspiring designs than a bland looking time only pilots watch. The blue aqua is a step in the right direction imo.
Also, I think without the nautilus line, the brand probably wouldn't survive. |
27 July 2017, 09:27 AM | #14 |
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27 July 2017, 10:32 AM | #15 | |
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and i would imagine a brand as storied as patek could live off of good will for quite some time - doesnt mean the brand is healthy or heading in the right direction....that seemed to be the whole point of the article. |
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27 July 2017, 10:34 AM | #16 | |
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27 July 2017, 10:35 AM | #17 |
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AP and PP have issues...they are watches.
The challenge with PP comes with the service times (as we know). |
27 July 2017, 10:56 AM | #18 |
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Patek has done pretty well before the Nautilus came along.
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27 July 2017, 11:42 AM | #19 |
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The article has several valid points, both praises for and criticisms of Patek Philippe.
Watch collectors/buyers today are very different from those from a generation ago. Just as the generation of Philippe Stern will slowly diminish, the generation of Thierry Stern will continue to grow. Patek is not abandoning the traditional Calatravas and the complications that they have always been known for. And they are not making the Nautilus their main focus either. Patek has and always will be known for their complicated watches. However their production numbers over the past 10 years has skyrocketed and this has been both a blessing and a curse. People don't have to wait to get their non-Nautilus watches. However with a surplus of new watch supply, watch prices struggle in the secondary market. And unless they can train a whole new group of watchmakers to service these watches, wait time for servicing will get longer. The use of silicium components is a way to improve watch accuracy and to potentially decrease the need for frequent servicing. So what is the solution? Will restricting supply make things better? Instead of 60,000 pieces a year, what if they went back to only 30,000 pieces a year? What if they changed their production so that half of their watches are from the Nautilus line? No matter what they do, people will be unhappy, whether they are existing clients or potentially new clients. People want instant gratification and if they can't get the 5711/1A, they will cross shop and get an AP 15400. If Patek flooded the market with tons of 5711/1A's, all the current owners will be upset that the market price of the watch has tanked to under $20K USD. People want exclusivity in the luxury market and Patek is definitely not like Rolex in that pretty much anyone can purchase a Rolex with a 24 month interest free financing. Patek wants consumers to understand the brand and what they produce and want the watch because it is special and not because everyone at their country club wears one. I am not criticizing Rolex as they are one of the most respected watch brands in the world, but they are not a luxury brand in the traditional sense and have become a more attainable brand for the middle class. I still have a lot of respect for Patek Philippe, even more so after touring their factory and seeing the work they do behind the scene. But there will always be unhappy customers. In comparing AP vs PP service times, does AP make perpetual calendar chronographs? If they do, what is the typical service time for an AP PCC? |
27 July 2017, 11:56 AM | #20 | |
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27 July 2017, 12:05 PM | #21 | |
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ufboy has it right, limiting supply to create a waitlist doesn't negate any of the criticism. It's just simple manipulation of supply less than demand. Ask yourself, if every AD had a blue nautilus for the asking, and a stainless ceramic Daytona to boot, would there be the same demand? Would there be the same furor? And markup? Fuggedaboutit. Would you even pay MSRP or would you expect your usual discount? |
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27 July 2017, 12:15 PM | #22 |
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AP does with their grand complication RO. No idea what the service time is but I read AP says all watches in their core collection will be serviced in 21 days under warranty and 42 days if out of warranty. I don't know if a GC watch would qualify as a core collection though.
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27 July 2017, 12:21 PM | #23 |
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That is quite a guarantee if true. I can see turnaround time of 4-5 weeks for a simple time and date watch. However I am curious what the actual turnaround time for AP to service their chronographs, perpetual calendars and PCCs.
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27 July 2017, 12:22 PM | #24 | |
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Ever try to buy a Birkin from Hermes for your wife/girlfriend? Limited supply to create demand. Porsche GTxxx try buying one. Limited supply to create demand. It's called smart business. Patek isn't the only one that does this. |
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27 July 2017, 12:23 PM | #25 |
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My bumblebee was serviced twice for the same problem. So much for quick turnaround.
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27 July 2017, 12:42 PM | #26 | |
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27 July 2017, 12:44 PM | #27 |
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Demand is demand.
If people are actually buying the watches, how is that artificial? I mean do they pay for these watches with artificial money? Is Patek taking fake IOUs and then going to bill these people later when everyone agrees on the real value and demand according to you? Patek has grown, demand has grown, profits have grown. Are they perfect? Absolutely not. But they are still the premier watchmaker out there. |
27 July 2017, 12:49 PM | #28 |
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To be frank PP has lots of issues. I think I don't have a smallish collection and never had a problem with Patek nor Rolex. Other brands yes. I think my Vacheron took 10 months to service. Not detracting from some of the comments I really don't regard "serious journalism" to include things like "what's your favourite hipster watch?"....
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27 July 2017, 12:55 PM | #29 | ||
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If you "create" demand then that's artificial, by my definition at least. Not saying it's not a good business model. I simply believe that genuine demand is quality driven, not supply driven. I respect that you may feel differently. |
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27 July 2017, 01:15 PM | #30 |
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I'm pretty sure the chronos qualify as core collection since AP sales a lot of chronos in the RO and ROO line. PC and PCC's is another story though.
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