GMT Questions and Ramblings

[JohnGaltJD]

I’ve been lusting after a GMT for a year or so and finally got the green light from my wife to purchase a milestone watch this Summer. I will finish law school in May and (hopefully) pass the bar at the end of July, results in early August.
Knowing this is a popular model, right after receiving the green light, I started in on the hunt with intent to purchase sometime before September 2018 (if I find a deal before then I am ready to jump on it, but no rush).

I’ve been torn between a new BLNR and a 16710 Pepsi. I only have one AD nearby and they have never had a GMT in stock when I’ve stopped by, as such, I’ve never seen either a 16710 or the new ceramic GMT in the flesh. For case and bracelet comparisons, I have a M serial 16622 Yacht-Master.

Back to the hunt, my wife and I were in Charlotte this weekend and we were able to stop by two ADs near our hotel. The first only had assorted DJs, precious metal Daytonas and a few smaller lady models. However, the second had a new, all black GMT and a coke 16710 they said was from early 90s (I think he said N serial). I was excited to try them both on. The ceramic was gorgeous in real life and the vintage coke was in great condition. Original T<25 dial, sharp lugs, etc. what luck!!

As soon as the salesperson handed me the vintage 16710, I knew it wasn’t for me. I loved the watch, but the bracelet felt so flimsy and cheap. I guess this to be expected for an older watch? On to the new GMT, now I have heard a ton about how the 6 digit Rolex models have superior bracelets and clasps so I expected to be blown away by the new GMT.... but honestly I wasn’t! I can’t quite put my finger on what I didn’t love, but it didn’t feel like an almost $10k watch. My YM feels more substantial and the YM bracelet is very comfortable. The clasp was improved on the GMT and I love the idea of being able to make micro adjustments without a tool (I live in the south and the humidity induced wrist swell is real). Now I am willing to concede that I need to try a second look, but what does the community think? Am I missing something with the 6 digit? I was worried the case would be too large, but it looked fine on my wrist. I think it was the bracelet that didn’t do it for me. Or maybe I had built the watch up so much, from forum browsing and picture listing, that it couldn’t live up to my self induced hype?

Would a late model 16710 have the same bracelet and clasp as my Yacht-Master (without the PCLs)? If so, I think that’s the may be the new milestone watch. What would be the best way to source one in good condition? I’d love to try one on, but don’t have access to a used watch store. The store in Charlotte is a few hours away so I will keep an eye on their inventory, but other than that any suggestions? I’m in no rush, but also noticed prices are way up on this model. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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[watchwatcher]

You mentioned that the five digit GMT you tried on felt flimsy and cheap? And the six digit bracelet didn't blow you away?

Maybe look at another brand? Good luck,

[GradyPhilpott]

Maybe Rolex isn't for you.

[Highjinx]

My initial thoughts when picking up a 5-digit sub with solid end links, was that the bracelet was flimsy, lightweight and cheap. I bought it anyway and I was wrong - the bracelet is lovely. It works perfectly and is extremely well designed to have such strength without weight. Like a space shuttle. Get the 16710 is my advice, its a classic, its going to become rare too. Not like the BLNR which is a little bit chunky and boxy.

[jph4387]

Originally Posted by JohnGaltJD

I’ve been lusting after a GMT for a year or so and finally got the green light from my wife to purchase a milestone watch this Summer. I will finish law school in May and (hopefully) pass the bar at the end of July, results in early August.
Knowing this is a popular model, right after receiving the green light, I started in on the hunt with intent to purchase sometime before September 2018 (if I find a deal before then I am ready to jump on it, but no rush).

I’ve been torn between a new BLNR and a 16710 Pepsi. I only have one AD nearby and they have never had a GMT in stock when I’ve stopped by, as such, I’ve never seen either a 16710 or the new ceramic GMT in the flesh. For case and bracelet comparisons, I have a M serial 16622 Yacht-Master.

Back to the hunt, my wife and I were in Charlotte this weekend and we were able to stop by two ADs near our hotel. The first only had assorted DJs, precious metal Daytonas and a few smaller lady models. However, the second had a new, all black GMT and a coke 16710 they said was from early 90s (I think he said N serial). I was excited to try them both on. The ceramic was gorgeous in real life and the vintage coke was in great condition. Original T<25 dial, sharp lugs, etc. what luck!!

As soon as the salesperson handed me the vintage 16710, I knew it wasn’t for me. I loved the watch, but the bracelet felt so flimsy and cheap. I guess this to be expected for an older watch? On to the new GMT, now I have heard a ton about how the 6 digit Rolex models have superior bracelets and clasps so I expected to be blown away by the new GMT.... but honestly I wasn’t! I can’t quite put my finger on what I didn’t love, but it didn’t feel like an almost $10k watch. My YM feels more substantial and the YM bracelet is very comfortable. The clasp was improved on the GMT and I love the idea of being able to make micro adjustments without a tool (I live in the south and the humidity induced wrist swell is real). Now I am willing to concede that I need to try a second look, but what does the community think? Am I missing something with the 6 digit? I was worried the case would be too large, but it looked fine on my wrist. I think it was the bracelet that didn’t do it for me. Or maybe I had built the watch up so much, from forum browsing and picture listing, that it couldn’t live up to my self induced hype?

Would a late model 16710 have the same bracelet and clasp as my Yacht-Master (without the PCLs)? If so, I think that’s the may be the new milestone watch. What would be the best way to source one in good condition? I’d love to try one on, but don’t have access to a used watch store. The store in Charlotte is a few hours away so I will keep an eye on their inventory, but other than that any suggestions? I’m in no rush, but also noticed prices are way up on this model. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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Did Windsor or Fink's have the vintage Coke?

[Tangier11]

I know what you mean by the bracelet. Flimsy by ROLEX standards I think describes it better.

[abozz]

Buy the modern 10.000$ GMT.

[mtgjr]

The late model 16710 examples will have the same bracelet as the one you tried on, only with solid end links. The SELs make a little difference, but not a ton. I love the bracelet, by the way. It's classic Rolex. As others have said, maybe the brand is not for you.

[GMT Aviator]

The hollow links of the 16710 bracelet and it’s predecessors served the generations that wore them, and still wear them today, very well. Same goes for the clasp, as you know, from your YM.
The newer generations of Rolex replaces the hollow links with solid links. A weight increase came hand in hand with this. This should not be interpreted as an increase in quality, though it’s fair to say the newer bracelets are probably more robust then the older hollow link bracelets.
The newer more square cases of the six digit GMT’s and particularly submariners are loathed by many, but that’s the direction Rolex have taken.
More metal all round in the current generation of watches does add more heft to the overall package.
Having said all of this, the 5 digit GMT’s earnt their place in history on the wrists of some big achievers in their time and they continue to be worn today. They are all time classics and probably the best watch ever made.
If Rolex re-released the 16710 today they would sell by the boat load.
I own both and both have pro’s and con’s. You just have to decide which model you prefer.

[ink3027]

I own two 5-digits (16710 and 14060M), both with what would be considered "flimsy" bracelets. But I actually bought them because of the bracelets (in addition to the 5-digit proportions). I tried on loads of 6-digits, but find the 5-digit bracelets more comfortable.

We've come to equate build quality with the weight, which isn't really indicative of much when talking about Rolex bracelets. The "cheap" 5-digit bracelets have been performing admirably for decades.

[Rocket_Man]

I don't consider the bracelet on my GMT as flimsy. It is actually quite substantial compared to my old 5-digit DJ. It helps balance the added weight of the larger 6-digit case. I really enjoy the EZ Link in the summer. My wrist can swell and it only take a few seconds to flip out the EZ Link and it accommodates my wrist nicely.

You are in the classic 5-digit versus 6-digit debate. It comes down to a matter of preference. The GMTIIc is a great watch.

[rouxeny]

I think “flimsy” and “cheap” are appropriate adjectives for the older folded bracelet.

I’m always struck by how light it feels compared to a modern one.

I think for somebody who is familiar with a modern day Rolex, that’s going to be their opinion of the older bracelet.

That’s not to say it won’t hold up well or be enjoyable to wear.

Mine is.

[JohnGaltJD]

Flimsy and cheap may have been poor word choices. I guess I was curious why the bracelet on the 16710 felt so much different than on my 5 digit yacht-master. I assumed the only difference was polished center links.


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[jcatt]

I understand what you are describing, but the bracelet on the 16710 is really nicely weighted for the watch. It is in fact exceptionally strong. Perhaps it felt flimsy because it was not size for you. Once it is sized correctly, it will feel as solid as a rock. But yes, certainly lighter in weight, which many see as a benefit.
JCATT

[WJGESQ]

Originally Posted by JohnGaltJD

I’ve been lusting after a GMT for a year or so and finally got the green light from my wife to purchase a milestone watch this Summer. I will finish law school in May and (hopefully) pass the bar at the end of July, results in early August.
Knowing this is a popular model, right after receiving the green light, I started in on the hunt with intent to purchase sometime before September 2018 (if I find a deal before then I am ready to jump on it, but no rush).

I’ve been torn between a new BLNR and a 16710 Pepsi. I only have one AD nearby and they have never had a GMT in stock when I’ve stopped by, as such, I’ve never seen either a 16710 or the new ceramic GMT in the flesh. For case and bracelet comparisons, I have a M serial 16622 Yacht-Master.

Back to the hunt, my wife and I were in Charlotte this weekend and we were able to stop by two ADs near our hotel. The first only had assorted DJs, precious metal Daytonas and a few smaller lady models. However, the second had a new, all black GMT and a coke 16710 they said was from early 90s (I think he said N serial). I was excited to try them both on. The ceramic was gorgeous in real life and the vintage coke was in great condition. Original T<25 dial, sharp lugs, etc. what luck!!

As soon as the salesperson handed me the vintage 16710, I knew it wasn’t for me. I loved the watch, but the bracelet felt so flimsy and cheap. I guess this to be expected for an older watch? On to the new GMT, now I have heard a ton about how the 6 digit Rolex models have superior bracelets and clasps so I expected to be blown away by the new GMT.... but honestly I wasn’t! I can’t quite put my finger on what I didn’t love, but it didn’t feel like an almost $10k watch. My YM feels more substantial and the YM bracelet is very comfortable. The clasp was improved on the GMT and I love the idea of being able to make micro adjustments without a tool (I live in the south and the humidity induced wrist swell is real). Now I am willing to concede that I need to try a second look, but what does the community think? Am I missing something with the 6 digit? I was worried the case would be too large, but it looked fine on my wrist. I think it was the bracelet that didn’t do it for me. Or maybe I had built the watch up so much, from forum browsing and picture listing, that it couldn’t live up to my self induced hype?

Would a late model 16710 have the same bracelet and clasp as my Yacht-Master (without the PCLs)? If so, I think that’s the may be the new milestone watch. What would be the best way to source one in good condition? I’d love to try one on, but don’t have access to a used watch store. The store in Charlotte is a few hours away so I will keep an eye on their inventory, but other than that any suggestions? I’m in no rush, but also noticed prices are way up on this model. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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Know exactly what you mean. Went in to see my first Rolex in the flesh, 5 digit Coke GMT, and simply could not accept it was a 5k plus watch. Ended up w a Speedmaster. The newer Rolex models are much better in "feel".

[ferrissteve11]

Having had both vintage and modern pieces I can tell you that my experience has been that modern is the way to go. Vintage has a certain charm absolutely....but for an everyday moving forward type of piece go with the newer iteration. I'm also in the camp that likes the additional heft of the newer versions. Though as always YMMV.

[Giangos]

I know what the OP means. Last week I looked at a 90s gmt, first time I had seen one and tried it on. I was completely underwhelmed by how it felt. Unsubstantial is the best word for it. Perhaps in its day it was not thought of this way but any comparison to a modern gmt (looks aside) would leave it wanting in a big way.
Just my opinion, others will differ for sure.


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[Beckster]

When II first started to look at Rolex watches which is only recently (around 6 months ago) I didn't give 2 hoots about the older models. Felt that the newer ones look more fresh and modern and sturdy. But after reading much about the older models and trying on some, I've come to understand what others mean. The bracelets may Feel flimsy and cheap. But they are so much more comfortable to be worn as a tool/daily watch. And classic of course. But this is just one guys opinion. At the end of the day only you can decide. All the best!

[Andad]

I have an old 'M' Pepsi and an older 'Z' GMT TTc.

I find the ezylink a great feature on the new bracelet and worth the move to the new model.

I also that find the twinlock crown seems very small on the Pepsi even if it does suit this model.

Seems to me that you will need consider your proposed purchase very carefully if you want to avoid disappointment

[matches]

Originally Posted by Highjinx

My initial thoughts when picking up a 5-digit sub with solid end links, was that the bracelet was flimsy, lightweight and cheap. I bought it anyway and I was wrong - the bracelet is lovely. It works perfectly and is extremely well designed to have such strength without weight. Like a space shuttle. Get the 16710 is my advice, its a classic, its going to become rare too. Not like the BLNR which is a little bit chunky and boxy.

This!!!

[Thuilln]

Originally Posted by ink3027

I own two 5-digits (16710 and 14060M), both with what would be considered "flimsy" bracelets. But I actually bought them because of the bracelets (in addition to the 5-digit proportions). I tried on loads of 6-digits, but find the 5-digit bracelets more comfortable.

We've come to equate build quality with the weight, which isn't really indicative of much when talking about Rolex bracelets. The "cheap" 5-digit bracelets have been performing admirably for decades.

I own the same references and couldn’t agree more with these words of wisdom.

[exador]

Read this, then decide.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/od...lets-editorial

[LLmrol]

Originally Posted by ink3027

I own two 5-digits (16710 and 14060M), both with what would be considered "flimsy" bracelets. But I actually bought them because of the bracelets (in addition to the 5-digit proportions). I tried on loads of 6-digits, but find the 5-digit bracelets more comfortable.

We've come to equate build quality with the weight, which isn't really indicative of much when talking about Rolex bracelets. The "cheap" 5-digit bracelets have been performing admirably for decades.

Same here, bought the old gmt and sub just because of the proportions and the comfort.

[JohnGaltJD]

Thank you all for the information. I really didn’t mean to sounds negative towards the 5 digit model. It’s a gorgeous watch. I was just expecting the bracelet to have the same feel as my M serial yacht master. Does anyone know if the late model 5 digits have the same bracelet without the polished center links?


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[uncufunc]

get a six-digit GMT from a trusted seller. You will pay way below 10k

[JohnGaltJD]

Originally Posted by uncufunc

get a six-digit GMT from a trusted seller. You will pay way below 10k

I got in touch with DavidSW and looks like a NIB example is just under 10K, 9.7k or so. Would love another suggestion if there are better sources. I was told David was as good as it gets for Rolex models.


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[mtgjr]

Originally Posted by JohnGaltJD

Thank you all for the information. I really didn’t mean to sounds negative towards the 5 digit model. It’s a gorgeous watch. I was just expecting the bracelet to have the same feel as my M serial yacht master. Does anyone know if the late model 5 digits have the same bracelet without the polished center links?

Dude, I already answered your question. The last 16710 ever produced has the same bracelet as the one you tried on, with the exception of the end links and possibly the flip-lock clasp....and the SELs add to the overall weight only very modestly.

Your M serial YM bracelet has what people call solid center links. Those links add substantial heft to the bracelet. The 16710 never came with solid center links or an equivalent-feeling bracelet. Feel free to ask a third time if you still don't like my answer.

[JohnGaltJD]

Originally Posted by mtgjr

Dude, I already answered your question. The last 16710 ever produced has the same bracelet as the one you tried on, with the exception of the end links and possibly the flip-lock clasp....and the SELs add to the overall weight only very modestly.

Your M serial YM bracelet has what people call solid center links. Those links add substantial heft to the bracelet. The 16710 never came with solid center links or an equivalent-feeling bracelet. Feel free to ask a third time if you still don't like my answer.

Hahaha sorry about that I misunderstood earlier. So there is a tangible difference in my YM bracelet and the 16710 bracelet. I didn’t know about the solid center link distinction. Thank you for educating (and re-educating) me.


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[oldman2005]

That's why I bought the new black GMT ceramic instead the old style GMT Pepsi.

[The Libertine]

That same “flimsy and cheap” bracelet was used by Rolex for decades, and proved the exact opposite of many initial first impressions.