Very Depressing!!

[Overwound]

Originally Posted by sub-eddie

Thanks for the edit. I will use this sentence structure from now on.

It's an unfortunate situation for buyers these days. I wouldn't buy these watches at above retail prices either. Also, I had no issues with your original post. If I can't read three small paragraphs I'll just call it quits.

[GRabens]

I completely agree with you and feel your pain. I had to unload my collection (5 pieces) for personal reasons several years ago. I recently bit the bullet to buy a 116610LN as I saw the prices continuing to increase. I believe several thousand dollars just in the last year alone. I will probably never own more than two again in my life. The cost of ownership has become more than I care to spend.

[Oyster Lover]

On principle I will not buy another Rolex as long as Rolex is yanking the license of so many of their old time authorized dealers, and the watches are no longer to be found unless you are willing to buy gray market and pay thousands over retail price.

There's no reason why an authorized dealer for 40 years should lose their license because they are not sitting in the middle of a large city. There's also no reason why an authorized dealer in the middle of a large city is sitting with empty showcases and not a single Rolex to sell to the public.

I also think it's stupid to sit on "waiting lists" for years, anxiously waiting to "get the call" and I won't do it on principle.

Trust me when I say that ADs are blowing watches out the back door to folks who are reselling them, and that's why you're not finding one. And that's why/how there are thousands of watches available for sale at a premium everywhere you look, except at the ADs.

It's just another scam - another layer of middlemen who are skimming a percentage of the value of the watch for themselves. Rolex has never been able to handle the gray market properly, and now it's getting totally out of hand.

The hype and craziness that surrounds the brand these days is off-putting. Makes me not even want to wear the Rolex watches that I have.

I hope Rolex is reading this, so they can understand how for a certain ("large"?) segment of the population, they are literally killing their brand.

[Rolexrebel]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Prices will go back to normal just as soon as the economy crashes and that will be happening very soon so just wait a little while. Now is not the time to buy. Now is the time to sell. Enjoy what you have now.

I have e never seen luxury goods decrease in price! Prices only ever go in one direction. Up. I bet a few years ago most people thought that the price of most luxury goods were ridiculously expensive and in a few years from now we will all look back and think that todays (2021) prices were SO reasonable because everything will be so much more expensive by then.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Rolexrebel

I have e never seen luxury goods decrease in price! Prices only ever go in one direction. Up. I bet a few years ago most people thought that the price of most luxury goods were ridiculously expensive and in a few years from now we will all look back and think that todays (2021) prices were SO reasonable because everything will be so much more expensive by then.

I didn’t say they would decrease I said they would go back to normal and normal is retail. Well retail for the hot models and discounts for less desirable models. I guarantee that’s going to happen. The only thing that sparked this frenzy is a smoking hot economy the last four years. And of course Covid made it worse by slowing down production when they already could not keep up. This really isn’t difficult to track. Ask anybody that’s been doing this for more then five or 10 years and they will explain to you how easy available back in 2015 all these pieces were that are difficult to get today. A great economy creates more players and more players puts higher demand on luxury items. A poor economy creates less players and less players puts lower demand on luxury items. You’re welcome. :-)

[Cheng]

Honestly I see Rolex prices still going to the moon, don't panic. Luxury is expensive.

[Daytona88]

I was “Rolex only” until I found this group and developed a higher lever of admiration and respect for Tudor. I get very similar gratification when acquiring and owning a new Tudor…at MSRP or better.

[Casotakar]

Lol, I don’t think it’s depressing, but funny when I look back to 2015.

I was in NO position to buy a watch above $50 in 2015, but I’d still go look and talk with ad’s. One instance while living in Falls Church, VA, I walked into an ad just across from Tysons’ mall and asked to see a stainless steel submariner. The ad said “sorry we don’t have that but we have these 3 which I think you’ll like” and he pulls out an Explorer, and 2 different two-tone subs (one blue dial, one black dial). Felt great to try them all on and I remember thinking “damn, if I could just lay down the cash right now!”

Nothing great by today’s standards, but still felt nice to walk in, ask, and not be out of line for doing so. If only I had the ability to buy one at the time!!

[Oyster Lover]

If you went through all the gray market dealers (Bob's, Bernard, Jomas, whichever) and counted up all the Rolex tool watches that are available right now, you would find over 2,000 of them right here, right now. But if you go to an AD, you will find not even one.

That means the retail process of buying these watches is broken. That means a big part of the mystic of this watch brand is its unavailability.

Reminds me of the paradox of diamonds. Are they rare? Really? If you went into the De Beers vaults, you'd find millions of carats of diamonds. They are not available for sale. Why not? Because if they were, a diamond with a $10,000 tag on it today, would be worth only $250 tomorrow.

Patek Phillipe makes only 50,000 - 60,000 watches per year. Rolex makes 1,000,000 + per year. You can find a Patek, but you can't find a Rolex. Doesn't that make you think, "hmmmm... that's actually really strange...."?

Don't fall into the trap - don't be a lemming - think for yourself.

[Time-After-Time]

Why not buy some Omega Speedy Pro?

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by Oyster Lover

If you went through all the gray market dealers (Bob's, Bernard, Jomas, whichever) and counted up all the Rolex tool watches that are available right now, you would find over 2,000 of them right here, right now. But if you go to an AD, you will find not even one.

That means the retail process of buying these watches is broken. That means a big part of the mystic of this watch brand is its unavailability.

Reminds me of the paradox of diamonds. Are they rare? Really? If you went into the De Beers vaults, you'd find millions of carats of diamonds. They are not available for sale. Why not? Because if they were, a diamond with a $10,000 tag on it today, would be worth only $250 tomorrow.

Patek Phillipe makes only 50,000 - 60,000 watches per year. Rolex makes 1,000,000 + per year. You can find a Patek, but you can't find a Rolex. Doesn't that make you think, "hmmmm... that's actually really strange...."?

Don't fall into the trap - don't be a lemming - think for yourself.

It actually means Rolex is setting their MSRP too low.

[gwozhog]

Here is my take. Anyone who pays over retail for anything in life is a taco short of combo meal. I called an AD today an asked about a SS Daytona at retail price and he told me impossible but said he could get me a new one from a grey dealer in a couple of weeks. I have come to the conclusion that AD's how now become closet grey dealers and Rolex is in on it too. Makes me want to not even own the few that have now.

[Nikrnic]

Sounds like yesterday papers..ya know, hindsight 20/20. Although now could be a good time to sell for some if value was the motivation to purchase in the first place. I never paid over Msrp and really not even that, on new that is.. l bought to keep so I could care less about the Rolex market.
BTW > Who said IBTL.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[djyolky]

This thread has under produced.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by gwozhog

Here is my take. Anyone who pays over retail for anything in life is a taco short of combo meal. I called an AD today an asked about a SS Daytona at retail price and he told me impossible but said he could get me a new one from a grey dealer in a couple of weeks. I have come to the conclusion that AD's how now become closet grey dealers and Rolex is in on it too. Makes me want to not even own the few that have now.

For some, time is more Important than money.
If I was a wealthy person, would I waste time on AD games? No I’d just go grey,
As they say, it’s only money and there are no pockets in a shroud.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I beg to differ. They pushed all the exact perfect buttons for a crash. This stuff isn’t very difficult to figure out. They know exactly how to make the economy sore and exactly how to slow it down as crash.

??

[Chambers]

Originally Posted by Krash

I wouldn't get depressed over anything watch related.

But I've always been an eternal optimist too...

I second this.

[SN13]

Originally Posted by Rolexrebel

I have e never seen luxury goods decrease in price! Prices only ever go in one direction. Up. I bet a few years ago most people thought that the price of most luxury goods were ridiculously expensive and in a few years from now we will all look back and think that todays (2021) prices were SO reasonable because everything will be so much more expensive by then.

LOOOOOOOOL

were you not ALIVE in 2006-2010?

When the "Housing" market bubble popped, the MSRP didn't drop, but you could buy any $7000 MSRP Submariner for $3k.



When the people with the watches need money, the watches go on sale.

When the quantity of used watches becomes saturated, the value of the used watches declines.

When the value declines, the demand for watches at MSRP declines sharply as well....


I'm in the process of selling one of my Rolex watches, because I don't NEED the watch and the current market value is crazy to me.

I don't need a Daytona.... Would I wear one? Yeah, for $9-10k. . . . for 35? lol nah.

[SN13]

Originally Posted by Mal H.

It actually means Rolex is setting their MSRP too low.

No.

The MSRP on PM models is already stupidly high.



Why doesn't Tag Heuer sell out every one of their Carrera Chronographs? $5500 msrp is REALLY cheap compared to Daytona....

So why?

Because the Used value is $3k.

If tomorrow the USED value of a Carrera were $8k, every single one of the $5500 MSRP watches would be sold, and on the grey market....

would you be in here saying "HEUER's MSRP is TOO LOW" ? no.

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by SN13

No.

The MSRP on PM models is already stupidly high.



Why doesn't Tag Heuer sell out every one of their Carrera Chronographs? $5500 msrp is REALLY cheap compared to Daytona....

So why?

Because the Used value is $3k.

If tomorrow the USED value of a Carrera were $8k, every single one of the $5500 MSRP watches would be sold, and on the grey market....

would you be in here saying "HEUER's MSRP is TOO LOW" ? no.

Because Tag’s MSRP is above market. It really isn’t that difficult.

Rolex MSRP is a discount. Gray buy price is wholesale. Gray sell price is retail.

[Calatrava r]

You had all the great watches. You sold them. Now you realize that was a big mistake. Many of us have been there, done that.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by SN13

LOOOOOOOOL

were you not ALIVE in 2006-2010?

When the "Housing" market bubble popped, the MSRP didn't drop, but you could buy any $7000 MSRP Submariner for $3k.

No offense, I was alive in 2006 and working in advertising for an AD, I do not remember anywhere near the numbers you say?? I do remember they would give good customers 10% off of some models but that never translated to 3 grand for a Submariner???

[SN13]

Originally Posted by Mal H.

Because Tag’s MSRP is above market. It really isn’t that difficult.

Rolex MSRP is a discount. Gray buy price is wholesale. Gray sell price is retail.

Tag's MSRP is above market?????

What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that a Swiss Made automatic Chronograph using Steel and Ceramic should be less than $5.5k?

I use HEUER as the model here because everyone loves to hate on Tag...

What do you define as "Market"?

[SN13]

Originally Posted by garyk

No offense, I was alive in 2006 and working in advertising for an AD, I do not remember anywhere near the numbers you say?? I do remember they would give good customers 10% off of some models but that never translated to 3 grand for a Submariner???

You know there is an entire marketplace outside of an AD's 4 walls, right?

I wasn't talking about getting the Rolex from the AD, more like from all the Paper Millionaires who had 5 mortgages and realized they weren't really "wealthy" and now they had to make a mortgage and needed cash fast...

The Saying; a Rising Tide lifts all ships, is the same when the tide is ebbing..... When the tide turns, and the water level begins to fall, everyone trying to "resell" a watch will be affected...

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by SN13

Tag's MSRP is above market?????

What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that a Swiss Made automatic Chronograph using Steel and Ceramic should be less than $5.5k?

I use HEUER as the model here because everyone loves to hate on Tag...

What do you define as "Market"?

If Tag isn’t selling them all then, yes, their Carrera’s should be less than $5500.

There is no way to explain it any easier than that.

[SN13]

Originally Posted by Mal H.

If Tag isn’t selling them all then, yes, their Carrera’s should be less than $5500.

There is no way to explain it any easier than that.

So, lower the MSRP until every single watch sells out and the store is empty?

But if the store is empty, the MSRP is too low.....

So they raise the MSRP and the watches sit in the store, because the MSRP is too high?

So they need to lower the MSRP....

Or do you have a particular value where there is a perfect balance of Half empty cases but half full cases in MSRP equilibrium?

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by SN13

So, lower the MSRP until every single watch sells out and the store is empty?

But if the store is empty, the MSRP is too low.....

So they raise the MSRP and the watches sit in the store, because the MSRP is too high?

So they need to lower the MSRP....

Or do you have a particular value where there is a perfect balance of Half empty cases but half full cases in MSRP equilibrium?

Yes. It’s literally called price equilibrium. Again…basic economics. Not sure why you needed the .

[superpop]

This exactly. The true long term owners of these watches are growing tired of this situation.

Originally Posted by Oyster Lover

On principle I will not buy another Rolex as long as Rolex is yanking the license of so many of their old time authorized dealers, and the watches are no longer to be found unless you are willing to buy gray market and pay thousands over retail price.

There's no reason why an authorized dealer for 40 years should lose their license because they are not sitting in the middle of a large city. There's also no reason why an authorized dealer in the middle of a large city is sitting with empty showcases and not a single Rolex to sell to the public.

I also think it's stupid to sit on "waiting lists" for years, anxiously waiting to "get the call" and I won't do it on principle.

Trust me when I say that ADs are blowing watches out the back door to folks who are reselling them, and that's why you're not finding one. And that's why/how there are thousands of watches available for sale at a premium everywhere you look, except at the ADs.

It's just another scam - another layer of middlemen who are skimming a percentage of the value of the watch for themselves. Rolex has never been able to handle the gray market properly, and now it's getting totally out of hand.

The hype and craziness that surrounds the brand these days is off-putting. Makes me not even want to wear the Rolex watches that I have.

I hope Rolex is reading this, so they can understand how for a certain ("large"?) segment of the population, they are literally killing their brand.

[Oyster Lover]

Originally Posted by gwozhog

Here is my take. Anyone who pays over retail for anything in life is a taco short of combo meal.

I think that's absolutely right! I still remember the days you could get 20% off any regular Rolex, and 10% off any "tool" watch.

And if you pressed a bit harder, you'd get 20% off the tool watches as well...

I remember when an AD offered me a two tone Bluesy for 30% off Retail (if I recall correctly, this was "new old stock" D-serial number, when the larger ones started coming in).

What has changed since then? Let's see:

(a) America has been on endless wars all over the world, which cost us something like 5 trillion dollars

(b) The world has gone through two Recessions

(c) The world has gone through an unbelievable Pandemic

(d) Unemployment went to all-time-high

(e) Manufacturing totally depressed

(f) More people hard up and on government assistance than ever before

(g) The stock market has been on a 5 year "tear" which no one can understand and every one says is totally detached from reality


So, what's the take-away? Which one of the choices above "is not like the other"? The stock market, of course.

And, which one of the choices above is more like the situation that us long-term Rolex collectors find themselves in, when we look at the state of the Rolex marketplace? The stock market, of course.

I mean, it's so plain to see, it's ridiculous and maddening at the same time.

And the issue is, it's not that I'm upset at the fact that the watches I have are now worth more than I paid for them, I think that's fine of course, but I'm upset that I can't do what I REALLY want to do, which is to keep collecting and wearing great quality Rolex watches!

It's fun and satisfying to collect nice watches, and I'm unhappy that this fun activity that I've been doing for decades is basically now over, and that the only people who are still playing this Musical Chairs game are either (a) millionaires or (b) Shysters flipping watches to (c) people who are buying Rolexes when they really can't afford them (and therefore shouldn't buy them).

Most of all I'm really mad at the Shysters who are shilling an extra 20% or 30% (or more!) off the value of the watches they are flipping. For example, the people who obtain (from an AD!!!) a $13,000 Retail SS Daytona, and turn around and sell it for $32,000 or more!

These shysters are the ones bringing the house down... Where's my bucket of tar and feather pillow??

[SN13]

Originally Posted by Mal H.

Yes. It’s literally called price equilibrium. Again…basic economics. Not sure why you needed the .

What's the Price Equilibrium for a Tag Chrono? Since $5500 is too high.