Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by roach7

But now Rolex has a record on that serial # as stolen so it might still backfire on him one day.

So who has legal ownership of the watch now? PayPal I assume, unless they have secondary insurance for this kind of situation. But how do they explain refunding the buyer's money if they believe it to be a theft?

The fact that PayPal refunded the buyer might confuse the situation for the police if it ever came to that.

I think he got away with a free Tudor. Hope that karma catches up with him.

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by roach7

But now Rolex has a record on that serial # as stolen so it might still backfire on him one day.

And he won't be able to pull the scam again on that account.

[crowncollection]

Great news


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[Etschell]

for all the snarky comments left in this thread i hope you realize that roach7 is a reputable seller and great member.

im pretty disappointed in general...

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[roach7]

Originally Posted by Etschell

for all the snarky comments left in this thread i hope you realize that roach7 is a reputable seller and great member.

im pretty disappointed in general...

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I believe it is partially my mistake of not being careful and documenting everything that leaves my hands. I've changed my process now and all serial numbers are photographed next to the warranty card right before shipment.

I have learned a great deal from this community, thank you everyone!

[GLADIATOR]

Outstanding and awesome news.
Very happy for you
Adam

[HL65]

Originally Posted by roach7

After 4 weeks and 2 failed appeals, PayPal reversed their decision and credited me back the funds!

Thanks to everyone's advice and I've learned a great deal from this ordeal.

Glad to hear!

[mfnj]

Originally Posted by roach7

I believe it is partially my mistake of not being careful and documenting everything that leaves my hands. I've changed my process now and all serial numbers are photographed next to the warranty card right before shipment.

I have learned a great deal from this community, thank you everyone!

Glad it worked out. Question - as an active seller, does this experience now change your thoughts as to acceptable payment methods? Would you still accept PayPal knowing that it is a “stressful” process to battle a scammer?

[roach7]

Originally Posted by mfnj

Glad it worked out. Question - as an active seller, does this experience now change your thoughts as to acceptable payment methods? Would you still accept PayPal knowing that it is a “stressful” process to battle a scammer?

Currently I will only accept PP for payments under 10k. I might have to change that to 2k for international payments.

[epc2]

Wow excellent news , glad you got your money back.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Etschell

for all the snarky comments left in this thread i hope you realize that roach7 is a reputable seller and great member.

im pretty disappointed in general...

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I was thinking quite the opposite, thought it was mostly respectful and very informative...

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

Currently I will only accept PP for payments under 10k. I might have to change that to 2k for international payments.

Can you not accept PP at all on eBay? I've never seen that option when verifying payment acceptance...

[roach7]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Can you not accept PP at all on eBay? I've never seen that option when verifying payment acceptance...

You can uncheck PayPal but you'd have to pick one of the other credit cards or payment upon pick-up.

[Etschell]

its pretty hard not to accept paypal as a power seller on ebay.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

You can uncheck PayPal but you'd have to pick one of the other credit cards or payment upon pick-up.

Got it..

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by roach7

After 4 weeks and 2 failed appeals, PayPal reversed their decision and credited me back the funds!

Thanks to everyone's advice and I've learned a great deal from this ordeal.

So glad for you. What was the base of their final decision? Did Paypal pay you back out of their own pocket or get the money back from the buyer?

[roach7]

Originally Posted by yxc145

So glad for you. What was the base of their final decision? Did Paypal pay you back out of their own pocket or get the money back from the buyer?

PP did not disclose any details other than they made a mistake in the previous decisions. They refunded from their own pocket and I'm not sure if they're going to pursue the buyer to returns the funds to them...

[ancientmariner]

Great result

[jbarolex]

[kekes7]

Originally Posted by roach7

Yesterday was my 3rd attempt calling PP after the 2 failed appeals. The agent said to give her 5min to review the case and she came back and simply said the previous decisions were incorrect and she will personally see to it that I get my money back. She did not disclose what the exact details were and I didn't want to push. I'm just glad I got my money back...

just got through the whole thread. glad it had a happy ending.

heres my 2 cents.

buyer seemed fishy for the only reason is that you can pick up a BB from a AD in australia for 3k AUD, so why spend 3.5K USD which is about 5K AUD??

and they are readily available.

if it hadnt been resolved, i would have suggested that the only way to get a fake BB in australia is to order it from overseas, and generally pay with paypal. so there would have been a good chance if it was a case of switching the real with a fake that there would be a prior history of a fake watch purchase maybe on their paypal account. and maybe paypal realised this.

so if things had not have been resolved i would have suggested to the OP to get the police here in australia to investigate his purchase history on paypal and credit cards for known fake watch retailers on his statement. a long shot, and one that now seems was not necessary

[roach7]

Originally Posted by kekes7

just got through the whole thread. glad it had a happy ending.

heres my 2 cents.

buyer seemed fishy for the only reason is that you can pick up a BB from a AD in australia for 3k AUD, so why spend 3.5K USD which is about 5K AUD??

and they are readily available.

if it hadnt been resolved, i would have suggested that the only way to get a fake BB in australia is to order it from overseas, and generally pay with paypal. so there would have been a good chance if it was a case of switching the real with a fake that there would be a prior history of a fake watch purchase maybe on their paypal account. and maybe paypal realised this.

so if things had not have been resolved i would have suggested to the OP to get the police here in australia to investigate his purchase history on paypal and credit cards for known fake watch retailers on his statement. a long shot, and one that now seems was not necessary

The original purchase was for 2500usd. I also reached out to his local police and they told me to submit a report to the ACORN which is the cybercrime unit but ACORN rejected my report and told me to file a local police report but they never told me exactly how to properly follow through with the report... seems like it's extremely difficult to report crime over there and maybe the buyer knows this? Maybe someone with experience with how things work in Australia can chime in... If PP didn't refund me I would've kept trying to get local police involved.

[kekes7]

Originally Posted by roach7

The original purchase was for 2500usd. I also reached out to his local police and they told me to submit a report to the ACORN which is the cybercrime unit but ACORN rejected my report and told me to file a local police report but they never told me exactly how to properly follow through with the report... seems like it's extremely difficult to report crime over there and maybe the buyer knows this? Maybe someone with experience with how things work in Australia can chime in... If PP didn't refund me I would've kept trying to get local police involved.

the police here in OZ do have a cyber division that you can report to. never used it but have heard it works. not sure of how complicared it is to report but it is possible, and i am sure us ozzies here could have helped you out.

glad paypal sorted it out though, no more headaches to deal with

[kekes7]

Originally Posted by roach7

The original purchase was for 2500usd. I also reached out to his local police and they told me to submit a report to the ACORN which is the cybercrime unit but ACORN rejected my report and told me to file a local police report but they never told me exactly how to properly follow through with the report... seems like it's extremely difficult to report crime over there and maybe the buyer knows this? Maybe someone with experience with how things work in Australia can chime in... If PP didn't refund me I would've kept trying to get local police involved.

sorry, for some reason i thought it was for 3500. even at 2500 it works out neither here or there on the exchange, so again bells ring as to why they didnt buy from an AD here. but then again who cares now. all is sorted

[AK797]

Glad it all worked out! But you did get very lucky this time as you well know.

I would never sell by paypal or ebay as they 99% of the time side with the buyer. Usually they do not care for evidence, only that the buyer is unhappy and they want to make him happy. Sellers are ten a penny on ebay but customer confidence can be lost in a heartbeat if buyers are not sure of their money back so this will always be ebay policy - protect the buyer at all costs.

The only possible fight you have against a bait and fake switch is you take pics of your serial number and card before you send it. And tell the buyer you will be doing so and show him pics of it on ebay before you ship it out, so there is some ebay record of the watch you sent out. Still not any guarantee of ebay siding with you.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

My guess is the buyer is a WIS, not a serial scammer. He's a student, he really wanted a Black Bay, but he couldn't afford a $3000 watch.

I think he sought out a listing with crappy pics. With too many high quality photos, his switch would not have worked. Considering the lack of actual photos in the listing, PayPal will side with the buyer.

I believe this is what happened, and judging by his messages and the usual excuses as to where it might have been "switched" without actually being really angry or upset, pretty much confirms it.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by AK797

Glad it all worked out! But you did get very lucky this time as you well know.

I would never sell by paypal or ebay as they 99% of the time side with the buyer. Usually they do not care for evidence, only that the buyer is unhappy and they want to make him happy. Sellers are ten a penny on ebay but customer confidence can be lost in a heartbeat if buyers are not sure of their money back so this will always be ebay policy - protect the buyer at all costs.

The only possible fight you have against a bait and fake switch is you take pics of your serial number and card before you send it. And tell the buyer you will be doing so and show him pics of it on ebay before you ship it out, so there is some ebay record of the watch you sent out. Still not any guarantee of ebay siding with you.

Yes, you always need some luck as a seller fighting PP.

That's exactly my new process now, I take a picture of the watch serial next to the matching warranty card. I will also post through eBay messaging so there's proof if I have to fight it.

[rolex75216]

Unfortunately, these things do happen. Hope everything turn out okay for you.

[marnii]

good result favors good people.

[amg55]

I have to say, you're one of the very lucky few to have PP ruled in your favour. Thank your lucky stars and take a deep, deep sigh of relief :)

[tuffness9999]

Originally Posted by AK797

Glad it all worked out! But you did get very lucky this time as you well know.

I would never sell by paypal or ebay as they 99% of the time side with the buyer. Usually they do not care for evidence, only that the buyer is unhappy and they want to make him happy. Sellers are ten a penny on ebay but customer confidence can be lost in a heartbeat if buyers are not sure of their money back so this will always be ebay policy - protect the buyer at all costs.

The only possible fight you have against a bait and fake switch is you take pics of your serial number and card before you send it. And tell the buyer you will be doing so and show him pics of it on ebay before you ship it out, so there is some ebay record of the watch you sent out. Still not any guarantee of ebay siding with you.

You seem to not understand how selling on EBay and similar sites work.

If you never sell via PayPal, then good luck on being a successful online vendor.

A huge portion of buyers use PayPal BECAUSE of the added security. We want to know that we have some recourse in case the item we purchase is not as advertised.

Of course this leaves a lot of room for scammers and those looking to abuse the system, but any business man will tell you "there is a cost to doing business". That is, you should expect loses through theft, shipping issues, scams, etc...

A seller with an already established reputation might get a way with limiting PayPal purchases, but there is no way you could do that as a newbie.

No one will buy from you if you only have a few positive references and only accept wire transfer. That's just plain stupid. There are many many sellers out there that will accept PayPal and thus give that added security to buyers

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